Is there a natural bob tail Doberman?

[jazzies mum]

I've been wanting to ask this for a while as there is a breeder in Australia who professes to be breeding them.

The only picture is of a pup of 8 - 9 wks old, and yes the tail is shorter, but not as short as the normal docked tail. It doesn't appeal to me as it's neither one thing or another, but it would stop most of those tail injury problems that the whippy tail brings.

My question would be. If it is a natural mutation, what other effects does this mutation have? Is the rest of the spine normal?

Has anyone heard of natural bob tails in Dobermans before?

 

[Ingrid H]

I never heard of a natural bob tail Doberman before...

 

[Oh Little Oji]

I haven't heard of any lines of Doberman with a bobtail, but then I don't really spend much time researching this stuff these days.

I know of one litter of Dobes born recently, and the breeder mentioned that the bobtailed one died.

In some reading online the other day on a forum devoted to Mastiffs, I read something from a woman who is really into Boxers. She said there is a breeder who crossed the Boxer with something else and eventually got bobtailed "Boxers." I'd have to search for the thread to find out what breed it was crossed with – Corgi perhaps? The resulting dogs looked mostly Boxer, but not right on.

 

[jazzies mum]

I have heard of bob tailed rottweilers, but have to wonder if it is just a cover as in Australia it is illegal to dock dogs. I know that there are tail less cat breeds, but is there a dog breed that naturally have bob tails? I think Corgis are also docked. Queen Elizabeths later Corgis all have long tails. The nearest thing that comes to mind is the Spitz breeds and pugs with the tightly curled tails. Maybe there are occasional random mutations that are then bred back to, which would really be a problem with Dobermans with so many potential genetic issues that you definitely wouldn't want to double up on! Just my curiosity at work here.

 

[MyBuddy]

I think Corgis are also docked. Queen Elizabeths later Corgis all have long tails.

Wow, I don't know if I've ever seen a Corgi with a tail. But then the last one I saw was a neighbors about 20 years ago!

 

[Doberman Gang]

Seeing a pup at 8-9 weeks wouldn’t really tell much, most tails get docked at 3-4 days old so would be healed by then. My guess is she is docking them a bit longer and advertising it as something new so she doesn’t get in trouble if it is illegal there.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Wow, I don't know if I've ever seen a Corgi with a tail. But then the last one I saw was a neighbors about 20 years ago!

Isn't it that the Cardigan Welsh Corgi has a tail and the Pembroke Welsh Corgi does not?

 

[jazzies mum]

Seeing a pup at 8-9 weeks wouldn’t really tell much, most tails get docked at 3-4 days old so would be healed by then. My guess is she is docking them a bit longer and advertising it as something new so she doesn’t get in trouble if it is illegal there.

Yes, this did cross my mind. That's why I haven't included a link to the site here. If nobody knows of any then it makes it pretty unlikely to be a natural thing.

Isn't it that the Cardigan Welsh Corgi has a tail and the Pembroke Welsh Corgi does not?

Now you have me wondering. More things to check out.

 

[jazzies mum]

Learn something new every day! Apparently some pembroke welsh corgis are born with short or no tail, although a lot are docked to conform to the breed standard. When I checked out images there were quite a few with tail intact. So there is a breed that has a natural short tail.

 

[Ravenbird]

Here ya go, @jazzies mum - list of natural bobtails, cats and dogs plus mentions the boxer cross.

Natural bobtail - Wikipedia

 

[MyBuddy]

Isn't it that the Cardigan Welsh Corgi has a tail and the Pembroke Welsh Corgi does not?

You're right. I used to remember which is which by the word broke in Pembroke, meaning (for me!) That their tail was broke off. LOL funny thing is I've never seen a Cardigan Welsh Corgi. So a Corgi with a tail seems so odd to me. But they are for real! LOL

 

[LifeofRubie]

I follow a few lab accounts on IG (a tremendously reliable source ), and a lab breeder who breeds hardcore working field dogs did have a litter in which a lab had a bobbed tail. They said it doesn't happen very often but it does happen.

To openly advertise that as a Dobe breeder though seems very odd...

 

[jazzies mum]

Here ya go, @jazzies mum - list of natural bobtails, cats and dogs plus mentions the boxer cross.

Natural bobtail - Wikipedia

Oh wow! There are a lot of dog breeds, and I really should have remembered the Aussie Stumpy tailed cattle dog. They are relatively common around here! Curiosity satisfied! It might JUST be possible to have a naturally bob tailed Dobe, I suppose, but it seems unlikely.

 

[Ravenbird]

Oh wow! There are a lot of dog breeds, and I really should have remembered the Aussie Stumpy tailed cattle dog. They are relatively common around here! Curiosity satisfied! It might JUST be possible to have a naturally bob tailed Dobe, I suppose, but it seems unlikely.

I remembered a few, but not near as many that were listed. Learn something new every day. Me thinks it's quite unlikely that a Doberman would be born naturally bob tail.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

What do we think the length of a bobtail Doberman would be? I sure don't like a tail that's too long. Are we talking very short like an Australian Shepherd, or long like a German Shorthaired Pointer?

 

[Maja Rocks]

Just when I thought I have seen it all...
Rewriting the breed standard or proof a sucker is born ever minuet.
MR

 

[jazzies mum]

What do we think the length of a bobtail Doberman would be? I sure don't like a tail that's too long. Are we talking very short like an Australian Shepherd, or long like a German Shorthaired Pointer?

The pup I saw pictured as an example was a longer dock like a GSP. I didn't find it attractive but I suppose it would solve the tail injury problems. Maybe the pup would grow into it a little but still..............................

Just when I thought I have seen it all...
Rewriting the breed standard or proof a sucker is born ever minuet.
MR

There will be people who believe the dogs are natural bob tails, or don't really care. I'm certain that there will be a market for the pups at any rate.

Having seen so many beautifully bred pups on this site I must say that the little guy pictured in the breeders advertisement didn't quite live up to the same standard.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Yeah, just no to a longer Doberman tail than is called for in the standard. Not attractive, and goes against what I understand to be the the original reason for docking in the breed: Removing a handhold for human adversaries.

My previous Dobe had a dock that was 1 - 2 inches longer than I would have liked. His breeder was plenty experienced, but explained when I asked her about it, that it's not an exact science and it's difficult to tell at docking age just how long to dock it. This still confuses me a bit, as the standard calls for the dock at a particular vertebrae.

At any rate, I can tell you that I could take that boy's tail in my hand and lift his hind end off the ground easily, and did so when I needed to clear the lead out from under his hind legs. It didn't hurt him, by the way, and he got used to it fairly quickly and just took it in stride.

So yeah, there's no doubt that an intact tail can be used as a handle. This unfortunate scenario is much more likely when multiple bad guys are besetting the Dobe.

 

[Maja Rocks]

 

[NikiL02]

When they're 2-3 days old it's really hard to tell how long the tail is. It's not even real bone at the time and I see dobes with really short stumpy tails that I think are too short. Nero definitely only has 2 vertebrae so the docking vet was good at that part (not as good at the dew claws IMO.)