I need help identifying this snake!

[MyBuddy]

On May 22nd I was out with my granddaughter riding horses when we spotted this snake. I posted this before but no one came up with an answer for me so I'm making its own thread to get more views. I really would like to know what this is because I'm getting conflicting opinions and some are saying it's poisonous!

Here are some pictures and video. I'm hoping there are some snake Fanatics out there who know their snakes! LOL please let me know what you think this is!



As this was happening I was texting my son in law. Trying to take video, hold a snake and text at the same time lol

But this is what I got:

 

[Doberman Gang]

Brown snake or mud snake maybe. Resembles a cottonmouth but the head isn’t shaped right and don’t think they are real common up in Illinois.

 

[obbanner]

I'm no expert. Hognosed snake came to mind as soon as saw the pictures because of the body shape and neck. They're rear fanged like copperheads. For some reason (problem on my end - old computer), I can't see the video. The side view of the head is very distinctive for hognoseds.

Eastern hognose snake - Wikipedia

 

[Viemarangelrock]

I know absolutely diddly-squat about snakes, sorry!

I’m still getting over, “it actually looks like a piece of turd!”

 

[Tropicalbri's]

It looks a bit like this snake which is a Western Cottonmouth.

 

[Regalis]

Just an FYI - hognose are harmless. The rear fanged thing is a bit of a myth. They're not harmful to humans (been bit by lots of them) and that looks way too big. Hoggies are pretty short and have very distinctive patterning that this fella lacks.

And I agree that the head looks wrong shape for a cottonmouth. Their heads are triangular. He is flaring out his neck, which is a very common threat posture for a lot of non-venomous species. It makes them look big and scary my pine snakes used to act like cobras and freak people out.

Regardless, safest bet is to just move him somewhere secluded. And since I highly doubt you'll be free handling him, you'll be just fine. He is fatttttt, which means he's eating well. That's a good thing for you I'm not super familiar with species where you are, so can't say for certain, but people tend to think *everything* is venomous. man, we used to get so many coffee cans with "Brown recluse!!!!" In them. We never saw an actual recluse. And "it's a black widow" for common orb Weaver's and tons of "I think it's a rattle snake" for any colubrid that "rattled" it's tail (they don't have actual rattles, lol, they just vibrate them against stuff very quickly and it *sounds* similar, a true rattler is a very distinctive sound that can't be mistaken once you've heard it )

Personally, I'd have popped the mouth open. Big fangs up front? Ok, now you're talking something dangerous. Only non-venomous species that tend to have noted front famgs are arboreal species, which his chunky butt is definitely not lol.

 

[Tropicalbri's]

Just an FYI - hognose are harmless. The rear fanged thing is a bit of a myth. They're not harmful to humans (been bit by lots of them) and that looks way too big. Hoggies are pretty short and have very distinctive patterning that this fella lacks.

And I agree that the head looks wrong shape for a cottonmouth. Their heads are triangular. He is flaring out his neck, which is a very common threat posture for a lot of non-venomous species. It makes them look big and scary my pine snakes used to act like cobras and freak people out.

Regardless, safest bet is to just move him somewhere secluded. And since I highly doubt you'll be free handling him, you'll be just fine. He is fatttttt, which means he's eating well. That's a good thing for you I'm not super familiar with species where you are, so can't say for certain, but people tend to think *everything* is venomous. man, we used to get so many coffee cans with "Brown recluse!!!!" In them. We never saw an actual recluse. And "it's a black widow" for common orb Weaver's and tons of "I think it's a rattle snake" for any colubrid that "rattled" it's tail (they don't have actual rattles, lol, they just vibrate them against stuff very quickly and it *sounds* similar, a true rattler is a very distinctive sound that can't be mistaken once you've heard it )

Personally, I'd have popped the mouth open. Big fangs up front? Ok, now you're talking something dangerous. Only non-venomous species that tend to have noted front famgs are arboreal species, which his chunky butt is definitely not lol.

I knew if anyone could come close to identifying it, it would be you!!

 

[Regalis]

I'm honestly thinking it's a type of pine/gopher/bull snake. It's size, shape and the hooding up all fit. They like to hood up like that. It's obviously not a cobra for starters, a cobras hood is wayyyy bigger.

Kinda looks like maybe a gravid female, the back 1/3 is quite large, which doesn't fit for having just eaten, it's too close to the tail.

Did it try to flatten out it's whole body? That's another stereotypical non-venomous trait.

 

[WiglWerm]

Snake.

 

[Tropicalbri's]

I'm honestly thinking it's a type of pine/gopher/bull snake. It's size, shape and the hooding up all fit. They like to hood up like that. It's obviously not a cobra for starters, a cobras hood is wayyyy bigger.

Kinda looks like maybe a gravid female, the back 1/3 is quite large, which doesn't fit for having just eaten, it's too close to the tail.

Did it try to flatten out it's whole body? That's another stereotypical non-venomous trait.

The coloration and chunky had me thinking. The head is what threw me with its shape but then the puffing the neck made me think of the gopher or bull snake. It’s one that would get my attention for sure. Pretty hefty looking too. Wish @MyBuddy could have gotten its mouth to open.

 

[Cscallan]

I had to ask our neighborhood snake expert. He’s always schooling the neighborhood Facebook page about snakes. This is his response

 

[Gelcoater]

The head doesn’t look triangular.
What did the tip of the tail look like?
Not sure if it’s 100% accurate but my dad always told me the tip is an indicator.
Applies only to N American snakes, if it’s pointed it’s not poisonous.
If it’s blunt like the end of a finger it is poisonous.

 

[Regalis]

Oh. And copperheads are NOT rear fanged. Trust me on this, their fangs are very much in the front I got to play with some once. Man, they sure can be pretty.

There is a lot of misconception about rear fanged species. Most of them are pretty harmless to humans. The few that have strong enough venom to be worrisome, they have to chew on you and that usually only happens if you're stupid (coral snakes for instance). Defensive bites (what they would do to a human) is usually a quick, snappy bite with the front teeth and a lot of times they don't latch on. You'd have to let it chew your finger ... And I've seen people do that and just be a bloody mess, but they definitely didn't get sick or die (we had some straaaaange folks working there haha).

Hognose is definitely possible. I can't see it's nose well enough on my phone. They have a very distinctive nose that turns up. If it's about to shed, that would explain the dull patterning.

If it is a hog, they're honestly harmless (ok, fine, not deadly, but teeth hurt lol) unless you're the unlucky allergic person (highly unlikely, but can occur with any animal bite/sting). Ive been bit by many, we used to get them in fairly often and the babies are bitey little $hits. And at that size, I'd almost guarantee it's a gravid female. Unless I'm thinking it's bigger than it actually is, that's a really good sized hoggie.

PS - snakes are venomous. Easy way to remember the difference? Venom is injected via fangs or stingers. Poison is not, it is ingested, inhaled or absorbed through skin. So snakes, spiders, scorpions ... All venomous. Frogs, certain mushrooms, etc are poisonous. Weird, eh?

 

[MyBuddy]

Thank you for all your suggestions! And there were a LOT of them!

Hognosed snake

This was my son in laws first pic. Later he was thinking it could be something poisonous.

I’m still getting over, “it actually looks like a piece of turd!”

Hahaha, he DID!

Western Cottonmouth

This was one of my son in laws pic.

Personally, I'd have popped the mouth open.

I'm honestly thinking it's a type of pine/gopher/bull snake. It's size, shape and the hooding up all fit. They like to hood up like that. It's obviously not a cobra for starters, a cobras hood is wayyyy bigger.

Kinda looks like maybe a gravid female, the back 1/3 is quite large, which doesn't fit for having just eaten, it's too close to the tail.

Did it try to flatten out it's whole body? That's another stereotypical non-venomous trait.

No, it did not flatten the whole body and all the pics really didn't show the 'full blown' cobra-like display! It was weird! THAT was something I've never seen and I was a little bit intimidated by that! Let me tell ya!

You see in maybe the 2nd picture...his head is sorta rounded or 'full'. Then is some of the others, his head get flattened and whatever those things are on the side of his head, got real prominent.

The coloration and chunky had me thinking. The head is what threw me with its shape but then the puffing the neck made me think of the gopher or bull snake. It’s one that would get my attention for sure. Pretty hefty looking too. Wish @MyBuddy could have gotten its mouth to open.

We have Bull snakes here and I've never seen them puff or flattened their head like this. The Bull snakes make the hissing sound by breathing in and out. This guy made no sound at all. He never tried to strike at me either, like the Bull snakes will do. He just wanted to get away. The Bull snakes will coil up and stand their ground if you are there, hissing and shaking their tail like a rattler.

The head doesn’t look triangular.
What did the tip of the tail look like?
Not sure if it’s 100% accurate but my dad always told me the tip is an indicator.
Applies only to N American snakes, if it’s pointed it’s not poisonous.
If it’s blunt like the end of a finger it is poisonous.

Can you view the videos? The end of the tail is pretty evident in all the pictures but I'd say its on the pointy side.

Now my grandson (I know, he's 11 but ...) he was telling me that if the head is oval its not poisonous....triangle means it is.

 

[MyBuddy]

Oh, and for those of you that wished I opened his mouth, all I can say is Um, no. I might not be afraid, but I sure as hell ain't taking my fingers and opening his mouth!!

 

[Gelcoater]

Thank you for all your suggestions! And there were a LOT of them!




This was my son in laws first pic. Later he was thinking it could be something poisonous.


Hahaha, he DID!


This was one of my son in laws pic.




No, it did not flatten the whole body and all the pics really didn't show the 'full blown' cobra-like display! It was weird! THAT was something I've never seen and I was a little bit intimidated by that! Let me tell ya!

You see in maybe the 2nd picture...his head is sorta rounded or 'full'. Then is some of the others, his head get flattened and whatever those things are on the side of his head, got real prominent.


We have Bull snakes here and I've never seen them puff or flattened their head like this. The Bull snakes make the hissing sound by breathing in and out. This guy made no sound at all. He never tried to strike at me either, like the Bull snakes will do. He just wanted to get away. The Bull snakes will coil up and stand their ground if you are there, hissing and shaking their tail like a rattler.



Can you view the videos? The end of the tail is pretty evident in all the pictures but I'd say its on the pointy side.

Now my grandson (I know, he's 11 but ...) he was telling me that if the head is oval its not poisonous....triangle means it is.

Looked pointy to me.

 

[Regalis]

Lol!!! You can usually use a stick to pop the mouth open. Or grab them at the base of the jaw and squeeze. we used to do it to our Rattlers to check their fangs on occasion (they were live fed so we wanted to make sure they weren't broke or anything, though they will grow back). It's kinda hard to miss their fangs.

Copperhead, for instance ....


And a hognose ...

And yes, the venomous species (at least where you are) will have a very distinctive triangular head. Cottonmouths are a pit viper. They also prefer swamplands. And I can't tell for sure, but it looks like the bottom jaw and "chin" area are unmarked, cottonmouth would have markings. There are also too many scales between the nose and eyes.

Cottonmouth head ....

 

[Regalis]

And that concludes today's lesson in Regalis is a snake dork

 

[MyBuddy]

My friend saw this one on her property. She shot and killed it. She thought it was some kind of water snake. She said it had no fangs. Are there ones with no fangs at all?

 

[MyBuddy]

The trouble with identifying these is all the colors within the same species! I thought the one my friend shot looked like the one I had. The underbody was the same creamy color.