Pantheon Dobermans

[alicia.delrosario.9]

Ok so now things have taken a turn for the worse! Got a call from my husband that Deja tried to bite him when he went to put her in her crate!!!! Oh No! She's very fearful of him to begin with but he tries with her and she freaked when he went to grab her collar and walk her to her crate. Any suggestions!?!


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[shadash]

Yikes, it's time to call professional trainers in your area and see what they say. Maybe one can take her over until returned.

Now that you know aggression is involved this becomes more serious.

 

[salisa826]

Denali has growled at me when he doesn't want to go in his crate. We solved that by playing crate games. I show him a high value food and he goes in. He gets rewarded for going in, sitting and then again when I close the door.


Lisa Mom of 2 human children and 1 furbaby

 

[salisa826]

Also my trainer suggested that some dogs don't like to be handled by the collar. It's best to use a leash.


Lisa Mom of 2 human children and 1 furbaby

 

[Ingrid H]

Ok so now things have taken a turn for the worse! Got a call from my husband that Deja tried to bite him when he went to put her in her crate!!!! Oh No! She's very fearful of him to begin with but he tries with her and she freaked when he went to grab her collar and walk her to her crate. Any suggestions!?!

No big surprise there... That's pretty typical behavior coming out of a fearful dog that's being grabbed and forced into a confined space. What did he think would happen? Since this is a temporary situation until she is returned to her breeder, could you set up a larger area with gates or something? The leash suggestion is a good one. Anytime I need to make my fear biter Ladybug do something, I put a leash on her. It gives me some distance from the teeth and keeps her more calm than if I had my hands on her.
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Yikes, it's time to call professional trainers in your area and see what they say. Maybe one can take her over until returned.

Now that you know aggression is involved this becomes more serious.

I wouldn't call it aggression for a dog to react the way Deja did. I'd call it a natural reaction for a fearful dog in that situation. I don't know what sort of fearful dogs you've worked with in the past, but the ones I've know have all had the potential to use defensive actions when they are pressed too hard. Heck, even a well balanced dog has the potential to bite when significantly threatened.

 

[FredC]

In these cases its often best to error on the side of caution.. Perhaps the owner isnt as talented a trainer as you? Your the first to say training fear out of a dog is easy.. I would never give such advice on a forum without first knowing the owners handler abilities and evaluating the dog personally.. RISKY BUSINESS!!!

wreckless advice has the potential to get people hurt.. Case in point.

I should rephrase... Fear in a dog or pup is nothing to take lightly they do not grow out of it and it's very difficult to train away and I've personally never seen a puppy that was improperly socialized ever grow up to be 100% in its own skin as an adult.. Not saying it hasnt been done rather it's a long hard road.

 

[shadash]

I wouldn't call it aggression for a dog to react the way Deja did. I'd call it a natural reaction for a fearful dog in that situation. I don't know what sort of fearful dogs you've worked with in the past, but the ones I've know have all had the potential to use defensive actions when they are pressed too hard. Heck, even a well balanced dog has the potential to bite when significantly threatened.

I wouldn't try to force a fearful dog into anything they didn't want to do. At least initially. I'd watch to see whatever the dog has an interest in and use that to start creating the behavior I wanted. Fearful dogs just need lots of patience and lots of beef jerky if they're food motivated.

I don't understand all the negativity flowing my way on this one. From the beginning I asked if the dog was fearful or fearful and aggressive. Until a couple of posts ago it was fearful only. Once it was established to be both a fearful and aggressive situation I suggested finding a trainer that could take the dog over.

What I see is a likely scared and not well socialized young Doberman. i also see a frustrated owner that was not sold what they requested.

 

[FredC]

I think the negativity comes from the fact that most of us knew that it wasn't a matter of if it was a matter of when. Could be wrong though.

 

[shadash]

The only negativity I'm concerned about is the kind that can hurt the dog. The dog is the one caught up in the middle.

I hope for the best for everyone involved. I wish I could take the dog myself and work with her, she looks very beautiful.

 

[Dobs4ever]

I agree 100% and never said on any level that membership assures honesty. What I said was it gives buyers a layer of protection as they have a place to go to that can help. Every single profession out there has both good and bad. A doctors degree does not mean they are loving caring honest doctors just as a degree to practice law does not an honest attorney make.

Membership also gives the average person a place to search where they have this layer of help more likely available as DPCA is an excellent resource for anyone who cares enough to do a little homework. I think we see far more people come here looking for help because they have no where else to go but a public forum because they bought from a breeder who did not care enough about the breed to support their countries breed club. Yes I am 100% for supporting the breed club. I believe in it as when the final end comes there is power in numbers - it is how we have staved off disaster up to this point. We need more people who want to join the fight to protect and preserve. The purebred dog fancy is not about everyone doing their own thing or we would have never had dobermans to begin with or any other breed.

(quote) Shadash -I wouldn't try to force a fearful dog into anything they didn't want to do. At least initially. I'd watch to see whatever the dog has an interest in and use that to start creating the behavior I wanted. Fearful dogs just need lots of patience and lots of beef jerky if they're food motivated.(quote)

The misconception on dog training is certainly enlightening - First you can't force any dog to do much. Intimidation is not good training. A fearful dog is not interested in much except personal survival. As a trainer you have to be good enough to come up with different techniques to inspire the dog to want to do what you ask. A fearful dog does not have the desire to please - fight or flight - A fearful dog always chooses flight until cornered and then as we see above the dog bit. This is not the kind of dog the average person needs especially if they want to do therapy work. This dog needs to go back to the breeder now before someone else gets hurt. Fearful dogs are unpredictable and flighty. Beef jerky does not solve the problem as a fearful dog is usually so stressed they can't even take food and show no interest in it at all. That is why for training we want a dog with strong food drive and hopefully strong prey drive (I prefer both for a stronger dog) so we have tools to motivate them. The fearful dog is not motivated by these things as they are too fearful to function on any level that approaches normal.

That is the problem with forums - some feel quite entitled to give reckless advise that could get someone hurt so people have to give their side and hope someone listens and does not just go with the poor advise.

 

[salisa826]

I hope my suggestions weren't wreckless. It was my intent. I should probably stay quiet just BC I don't have experience with this sort of thing. [emoji1]

 

[FredC]

I hope my suggestions weren't wreckless. It was my intent. I should probably stay quiet just BC I don't have experience with this sort of thing. [emoji1]

Absolutely not.. The point isnt to discourage sharing advice and opinions.. No one here should ever be made to feel that way and if i have i sincerely apologies. I sometime (actually often) browse from my phone and feel compelled to reply when i should really wait till i get to my computer to type out more detailed replies.. As it stand you can easily tell when im on my phone because i keep most comments short sweet and to the point..

At the same time if you give bad advice be prepared to be called out. (for the record no one was calling your suggestions reckless) I believe it relates to giving advice that didnt consider the seriousness of the situation compounded by the extreme likelihood the youth dog would eventually start biting..

 

[salisa826]

Absolutely not.. The point isnt to discourage sharing advice and opinions.. No one here should ever be made to feel that way and if i have i sincerely apologies. I sometime (actually often) browse from my phone and feel compelled to reply when i should really wait till i get to my computer to type out more detailed replies.. As it stand you can easily tell when im on my phone because i keep most comments short sweet and to the point..

At the same time if you give bad advice be prepared to be called out. (for the record no one was calling your suggestions reckless) I believe it relates to giving advice that didnt consider the seriousness of the situation compounded by the extreme likelihood the youth dog would eventually start biting..

[emoji1] I truly enjoy being here. I love that someone will see things differently than I.

 

[franktoscano]

I looked at the pedigree of your female and found a boat load of information that
tells me exactly what is going on. Sorry to say, not good. I will be happy to talk to about
this information. Please contact me at [email protected]

 

[shadash]

I looked at the pedigree of your female and found a boat load of information that
tells me exactly what is going on. Sorry to say, not good. I will be happy to talk to about
this information. Please contact me at [email protected]

This is very good feedback. Much better than the my response is better than yours people.

 

[FredC]

This is very good feedback. Much better than the my response is better than yours people.

What feedback? interesting choice in a best answer (which i vetoed) since I see nothing. How does a secret private answer benefit the next visitor? Please don't cheapen our community simply because your advice was not received well.

 

[Ingrid H]

I'm very sorry @alicia.delrosario.9 that you got into this sad situation and sorry that I almost dismissed the seriousness of the near bite. Maybe it's just because I'm used to living with a fearful dog. I tried twice to return my dog to the shelter she came from, and they wouldn't take her. The first time was about a week after I adopted her and realized that she was a dangerous dog. The second time was when I thought I was going to have visiting nurses in my home to tend to my man after a major surgery, but then I decided that I would have her put to sleep before handing her off to anybody else. Luckily for her, the nurses didn't have to come.

People say that dogs don't live long enough, but I'll turn 50 this year and have only had 3 dogs on my own. Two of them are still with me. I wouldn't commit to another fearful dog. It's too dangerous and too much of a liability to me. I won't say it's been a waste of time or that I don't care for her, but I'm not going to do it again.

 

[FredC]

I'm very sorry @alicia.delrosario.9 that you got into this sad situation and sorry that I almost dismissed the seriousness of the near bite. Maybe it's just because I'm used to living with a fearful dog. I tried twice to return my dog to the shelter she came from, and they wouldn't take her. The first time was about a week after I adopted her and realized that she was a dangerous dog. The second time was when I thought I was going to have visiting nurses in my home to tend to my man after a major surgery, but then I decided that I would have her put to sleep before handing her off to anybody else. Luckily for her, the nurses didn't have to come.

People say that dogs don't live long enough, but I'll turn 50 this year and have only had 3 dogs on my own. Two of them are still with me. I wouldn't commit to another fearful dog. It's too dangerous and too much of a liability to me. I won't say it's been a waste of time or that I don't care for her, but I'm not going to do it again.

Where is the +100 button? Mars is fear aggressive to and if you recall the Daemon ordeal who just snapped one day anyone would understand why those of us who live it take it so seriously.. I love Mars to pieces.. He is the most amazing and smartest dog.. It makes me sad beyond words that i cant share his awesomeness with everyone..

 

[alicia.delrosario.9]

All great advice everyone! I read each and every comment as well. I do not mean for people to get upset with one another. As someone stated on her I simply am frustrated that I did not get the dog I was told I had purchased and did not get support from the breeder so I wanted to turn to someone that was familiar with the breed. I've consulted multiple trainers and get various feedback. One trainer says do not board and train as it will cause more stress for her. Another says board and train is the only way. A few simply didn't call me back after I spoke to them about my situation. One trainer wants me to give her the dog because she wants her. But then again I'm in limbo because last communication I had with DPCA was that the breeder had agreed to refund me my money but she just didn't have it now. Again I value all the feedback and support I've received here!


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[Ingrid H]

Where is the +100 button? Mars is fear aggressive to and if you recall the Daemon ordeal who just snapped one day anyone would understand why those of us who live it take it so seriously.. I love Mars to pieces.. He is the most amazing and smartest dog.. It makes me sad beyond words that i cant share his awesomeness with everyone..

Well, it makes me sad that Ladybug isn't a "go along, get along" sort of dog either. She is also super smart. I tried a trick with her yesterday that I hadn't worked with her for about 2 years and she remembered and did it perfectly. The thing with these fearful dogs is that they are not for public activities. There is no way I would try to make a fearful dog into a therapy animal. It's just not in them. Ladybug is an awesome house dog with perfect manners and she's been a lot of fun to train, but I would never trust her around strangers or kids. Just because we can't share our dogs with everyone doesn't have to be a bad thing. As long as nobody is afraid to come visit me I'm happy.