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Pantheon Dobermans

I've always adopted dogs. This means you get the good and the bad. Maybe its just me but fearful dogs as long as they're not aggressive are the easiest to turn around.

As I've said before the breeder did you no favors. Its apparent that for the amount I assume was paid that more should have been provided.

The "certain characteristics" I was referring to is general temperament. Unlike say a pit bull where you never know what you're going to get dobermans are hardwired to be a certain way.
 
In these cases its often best to error on the side of caution.. Perhaps the owner isnt as talented a trainer as you? Your the first to say training fear out of a dog is easy.. I would never give such advice on a forum without first knowing the owners handler abilities and evaluating the dog personally.. RISKY BUSINESS!!!
 
Here's an example. What do you think is easier dog to train to be around children? A headstrong or "sharp" dog or a fearful dog as long as they're not aggressive?

The fearful dog will avoid the children and slowly interact with training/rewards. A more aggressive dog has to be monitored at all times around children.
 
I sorta get what you are saying @shadash I understand that given there is no aggression you feel the dog would be 'soft' enough for therapy? I can only speak from my experience with Buddy and the thoughts of 'therapy dog' has crossed my mind more than once. My heart warms at the thought of bringing my dog to a nursing home or hospital to put a smile on someones face with my dog. But, as far as I've come with him, I still imagine him cringing at noisy carts in the hallway, being nervous at the intercom and balking at a group of outstretched hands. lol Just walking him down the hallway would probably be traumatic for him. But then again, when have I ever had the chance to try that ?

I just don't see him being confident enough to do it. I don't see him strutting along as a confident, friendly, 'hey, how you doing?' type of dog. He's friendly, will lean on anyone and doesn't have a mean bone in his body. But I know how wary he can be too. I don't see him doing well in a crowded hospital room. He'd be looking for the exit. lol And try and get him to up to a hospital bed? You'd be dragging him, front feet digging into the linoleum. lol Try and push him anywhere and I get that. And he's dead weight. I can coax but not push.

Yes, maybe with time and more exposure/training he would 'dull' to theses distractions and warm up to the environment ....but IDK. He can be such a sweetheart! But he can also still be a chicken shit. His confidence in high when chasing a squirrel! And even strangers that I allow into the house he will lean on! Like an auditor I had not too long ago. I had to practically chase him away! (Buddy not the guy! lol ) But too much commotion and I can see him ducking away.

He's not aggressive at the door, just excited curiosity. And sometimes a PITA. We seldom have unknown visitors out here so working on greetings at the door have been minimal. :rolleyes:

I've seen a few Dog Whisperer shows where even Cesar says its very difficult working with a fearful dog. I'd say it's a lifetime commitment. But IMO training never stops anyway. :)

The fearful dog will avoid the children and slowly interact with training/rewards. A more aggressive dog has to be monitored at all times around children.

I get that too. And I could agree with you except for one thing. I still would never leave any dog alone with children. Even Buddy and believe me, he Loves the kids! But you just never know if one decides to get on top of him or something (anything!) and he freaks and can't get away. I always worry about a bite just because he was freaking and couldn't get out of the situation. Because, like you said, he would most likely avoid them if he feels threatened. But if he can't, well, I don't want to find out. I just monitor, monitor, monitor! :D
 
I would be willing to bet that the fearful dogs Cesar was referring to that are difficult to rehabilitate are fearful and aggressive not fearful only. This is why I asked from the beginning if there was any signs of aggression.
 
How long have you had her? I had this happen to me twice, but I picked up the dog rather than shipping it (seemed fine upon pickup). In both instances I have decided to keep the dog and several (3-4 months) later the dog has gained trust with me through trust games and has blossomed into the dog that the breeder had described. I would go slow. Just get her used to your house at first. Use a buckle or chain collar and have her tied to you at all times. Feed her from your hand sitting on the ground and never try any dominance things with her. Putting the crate in your room at night may also help. I sure hope this does work out for you.
 
I have a few observations.

I think Deja and you may be in a fear-feedback loop. You obviously haven't bonded with her, and she has no reason to trust you. Thus, the situation may be aggravated. It's my experience that Dobermans are very sensitive to their owners moods because they're a smart breed. I've had times when I've ruined a training session because I gave a sharp correction that, in thinking about it after the fact, the dog didn't deserve.

I also don't believe in the concept of delivering a trained dog to an untrained owner. The owner needs to learn how to work with the dog and the owner actually needs more training than the dog needs.

Good luck with Deja. I hope she survives.
 
I would be willing to bet that the fearful dogs Cesar was referring to that are difficult to rehabilitate are fearful and aggressive not fearful only. This is why I asked from the beginning if there was any signs of aggression.
Not the ones I remember. It was just fearful ones that were terrified of their own shadow. Much worse than Buddy.
 
I've had Deja a little over two weeks. She is fine with me just not the others in the household. She does shy from common noises and takes quite a bit of coaxing her to come back and face the fear. I have kept her on a leash attached to me but if I don't be vigilant she will chew it. Again my whole reasoning for getting her was for a TD and I was told she was there or very close to that and that was not the case so therefore I'm not able to take her to work with me and she is at home crated or attached to me when I'm home . Someone advised to just take her to work and have her around things but I work with the elderly and would hate for something to happen. Again I DO NOT think she will bite but have witnessed how fearful she can get. I just heard back from DPCA and the breeder has agreed to refund me my money and take Deja back but doesn't have the money right now. [emoji19]


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A fearful dog who feels trapped will bite out of fear - a very sharp dog also is not a good choice. For a therapy dog you want a calm confident temperament. Just because one is wrong does not make the other right. Above all dogs who are going to work around stressful situations must be confident, secure and trustful of people. Anything less is flirting with disaster and will not pass even a simple CGC and Therapy dog certification.
 
Above all dogs who are going to work around stressful situations must be confident, secure and trustful of people. Anything less is flirting with disaster.
I agree. They need to be confident and strong from the beginning and if they regress back at any given moment it would not be a good thing for a service dog.

Both of our dogs were flown to us and it had absolutely no impact on their confidence and they made themselves at home right away.
 
Glad DPCA was able to help. We have seen this before when people come here before they can get help. It is always better if the person steps up and takes care of it before it is out of hand.
 
And I hope the breeder does right by this dog when she gets her back. I feel for the dog and worry that she will not take the time to work with her or give her to the right person.
 
@MyBuddy. I feel for her too and honestly wonder if the breeder will really send any money; especially since she told DPCA that she doesn't have the money now. At any rate I am not going to stop working with Deja as long as I have her. I have hired a trainer to come work with us at my home so I can help Deja be more relaxed in her environment. It must be awful to always be so scared. I feel I owe that much to this poor dog .


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This is one more reason I feel it important to be a member of the breed club. If a Breeder is not a member then they are not required to follow any COE and there is no peer pressure to do the right thing. It not only support the breed it does have a COE that can be used in cases like this.
 

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