Silent Dobe
Well-Known Member
I am in your area in Valpo. Feel free to PM me.
F
FredC
Well this thread has taken an interesting turn. My spidey sense is buzzing like mad.
Denissov43
Notable member
Ataro: why did you post these examples of the breed?
they are not what one would be considered 'good' or beautiful examples of the breed for conformation or head... they are what looks to be... examples of what looks like Danish or Swedish working lines by their appearance. and they are typically Not known for winning any beauty contests or awards for conformation... seriously poor examples of the standard of a proper doberman head, under slung underjaw, high ear set and fine bone and although they are somewhat correct in length, height, angles... they are a weak example of a European bloodlines dog outside of Denmark or Sweden...
Ataro
Notable member
I posted them regarding my earlier post about seeing some appalling looking German bred Dobes that looked like German Pinschers. I think those examples are insulting to any good bloodlines of Dobermann, just to be clear. They're not the only ones, but I just quickly dug through a handful of German breeder sites to get those pictures.
Denissov43
Notable member
Ataro: that makes sense... they do not look like German lines, they look distinctly Danish... the Danish pride themselves on the character and working ability of their lines and that they exemplify the true nature of the breed and they commonly refer to the NA Lines and many Euro lines as having ruined the breed by focusing only on beauty, and head and exterior issues and ignoring the drive, nerve and character of the breed. They have ruined the head of the breed there in my view for the most part, but the working drive is what they seem to seek to preserve above all... I have not been around a Danish or Swedish bred Dobie, but I get the distinct impression that they would and do give the Malinois breed a run for their money on Drive and working ability... but it is decidedly agreed that the Mal stands head and shoulders ABOVE the Doberman these days for drive, working ability and fearlessness in the heat of a working trial or the real threat of danger....
Ataro
Notable member
I've been looking a great deal at the lines around Scandinavia and Germany, and to be honest they are very similar. The German lines that win conformation events like von Nemesis, von Ambassador etc. aren't working lines. The German working lines are smaller, more lightweight and yes I have to admit kind of 'ugly' but the appearance of the dogs I posted is just terrible, I still cannot believe they breed dogs like that. When they're doing the ZTP, the judges should just stop and say "sorry, no" or something like that. I still believe you have to aim for both temperament and appearance among health and other things when breeding, which is what I've got as requirements for my Euro puppy. This is why as easy and nearby as it may be, I did not choose to get a puppy from Germany. There are a couple of German kennels I would consider, but they had big litters at the beginning of this year and don't plan to breed again until probably 2014, and so it was a no-go.
Denissov43
Notable member
well the ZTP is not an appearance test.. its all character, boldness, signs of fear or unwillingness to attack an intruder and calm demeanor in a crowd, but work aptitude and character.. if they fail, they cannot be bred supposedly...
iceman
Active Member
That is an unfair generalization Denissov...in case no one told you,last years IDC Sieger was Danish bred Dobergaarden Forever Athos
http://www.dobermann-review.com/males/Dobergaarden_Forever_Athos/index.php
Dobs4ever
Hot Topics Subscriber
Costa - you study the pedigree is the best and fastest way to know. There are standards both followed in American and in Europe - that are slightly different but still a Doberman.
The ZTP is a breed worthiness test and is 3 parts unlike what is posted above from someone who has never studied or done one obviously. It includes a conformation evaluation that the dog is to standard, there are specific health test that are required and the temperament test.
The ZTP is a breed worthiness test and is 3 parts unlike what is posted above from someone who has never studied or done one obviously. It includes a conformation evaluation that the dog is to standard, there are specific health test that are required and the temperament test.
iceman
Active Member
ZTP is more commonly known as "breeding suitability test" and certifies that a dog is suitable for breeding
Zuchttauglichkeitsprufung (ZTP) rules (Zucht = breeding, Tauglichkeits = fitness, Prufung = Trial) Read More.....
iceman
Active Member
done.....posted in informative articles section... (might be a good idea to make it a "sticky")
ZTP (Zuchttauglichkeitsprufung) rules | Doberman Chat Forum: Talk About Doberman Pinschers
Denissov43
Notable member
That is an unfair generalization Denissov...in case no one told you,last years IDC Sieger was Danish bred Dobergaarden Forever Athos
Males > Dobergaarden Forever Athos > Main
Iceman: Athos is NOT Danish or Swedish lines.... do you know the difference?
This is not FROM Denmark and the Danish Breeders for the most part would take offense at your suggestion that this is their work... this is Fedor son and Altobello lines... hence the "beautiful" look of him...
the links below are classic danish lineage.... that are really from Denmark breeders not Serbian or Eastern European... Dobergaarden kennel imported him as a puppy. they did not 'create' him...
Ataro
Notable member
Denissov43 I hope you realize you've posted German dogs... and that is a German site.
iceman
Active Member
Denissov
You are wrong about Athos being an import..His parents were Serbian origin but Athos is a Danish bred dog, registered with Danish Kennel Club.
I personally met the dog,his breeder Hanne Lundahl from Dobergarden Forever Kennel and his show handler Heidi at IDC 2011 last year.
Hanne Lundahl is new to breeding but has achieved a lot in a very short time frame by breeding limited, but successfull litters.
She has chosen Altobello lines as a base for her kennel, but in a short time produced an IDC Sieger under her own kennel name.
Denissov43
Notable member
Iceman Athos is NOT DANISH lineage.... Dobergaarden is Danish, not the bloodlines... Fedor is not Danish and the dam is Altobello... a very different thing...
When I breed Pride of Russia's Gemma Rose in the USA does that make the litter North American?
When I breed Pride of Russia's Gemma Rose in the USA does that make the litter North American?
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