Reactive puppy

[DracoDobie]

Is he still doing this?

Look, I'm all for trying to say this dog is a hard dog. It probably is. I'm all for saving dogs that show they can be saved. But the details don't add up that he's "just" a hard dog. The behaviorist labeled him as nervy. The number of people that can handle a hard dog are far and few between. The number of people that can handle a hard dog and want to take on, a rescue essentially, that is also nervy? Sorry guys, I'm going to disagree on this. Not all dogs need saved. Unless Juliaa feels armed enough to take on the incredible life altering task and push through on keeping this big liability. She's an experienced doberman home. Its not like this is a complete first timer. Yes, there is a difference between working dobes and not. But if even Tito's breeder says this is odd behavior shes never seen in her dogs before. Then also an experienced behaviorist, that has experience with working breeds and dobermans, and saving dogs that are deemed aggressive from euthanasia? There are too many qualified people telling her that something is off with Tito. Its unfortunate but I think its even more unfair for Juliaa to feel that she could save him if she had just a bit more experience in handling a hard dog. Qualified people are saying that Tito isn't "just" a hard dog. I'd hate to see someone getting hurt.

I agree with you. I'm a vet tech, Draco is my first Doberman. I've dealt with multiple aggressive dogs, and this dog's behaviour definitely is off. If qualified people are saying that something's off, then we should really take that into account. I got Draco when I was 20, he was a really difficult dog, and still can be due to his drive, but Tito's behaviour sounds like too much to me. I've seen the damage dog bites can do first hand. He's a liability I'm afraid...

This behaviour would not be allowed in my country, as dobermans are in the dangerous dog breed list, and aren't even allowed to walk without a muzzle and a really short leash, NEVER off leash, sadly. If police saw his behaviour, or someone sued you, the dog would be immediately put down.

I'm so sorry you have to go through this. East european dog lines are know to have a high % of inbreeding and aggression issues, I'm afraid. They breed for looks, not temperament, and this is the outcome.

 

[Juliaa]

Is he still doing this?

Look, I'm all for trying to say this dog is a hard dog. It probably is. I'm all for saving dogs that show they can be saved. But the details don't add up that he's "just" a hard dog. The behaviorist labeled him as nervy. The number of people that can handle a hard dog are far and few between. The number of people that can handle a hard dog and want to take on, a rescue essentially, that is also nervy? Sorry guys, I'm going to disagree on this. Not all dogs need saved. Unless Juliaa feels armed enough to take on the incredible life altering task and push through on keeping this big liability. She's an experienced doberman home. Its not like this is a complete first timer. Yes, there is a difference between working dobes and not. But if even Tito's breeder says this is odd behavior shes never seen in her dogs before. Then also an experienced behaviorist, that has experience with working breeds and dobermans, and saving dogs that are deemed aggressive from euthanasia? There are too many qualified people telling her that something is off with Tito. Its unfortunate but I think its even more unfair for Juliaa to feel that she could save him if she had just a bit more experience in handling a hard dog. Qualified people are saying that Tito isn't "just" a hard dog. I'd hate to see someone getting hurt.

He has not been having the sleep disturbances anymore, which, was VERY strange and concerning. And yes he is extremely nervy, which is why handling the way it’s needed has to be so careful because he could shut right down. Walks are not a joy for him because he feels the way he feels, along with more. We work full time, I dedicate my time getting up at 4:30am for work, to spend time with him before hand, then come home from work making sure I’m still putting enough time in, command work, walking, playing, and working with things. When we first got home with Tito he went nuts and snapped at our very friendly dog as soon as he saw him. One of the trainers said right then and there he would have sent him back. Which we couldn’t. Indeed I grew up with the breed, introduced by my family friend breeder, she’s a hard ass from Poland. Made me work with the dogs, enter dog shows, etc. it was a lot of work but they also had good temperaments. I’m all for putting in the hard work but this is totally not normal and very risky. I always knew he wasn’t right. But decided to give it time, work, investing in professional opinions etc..

 

[Ravenbird]

I totally agree. I think @Juliaa comes first - the desire to take this on or not. I know there are some really bad dogs out in the world, they can't be fixed, only managed at best, and only a few of those worth the work. And literally thousands of good dogs with good temperaments waiting in the wings. I'm not suggesting continuing working with this dog, only saying that things are possible with the right person/experience/devotion. In my very first post here I said the biggest concern was the sleep/waking aggression. My main concern is that Juliaa's emotional roller coaster is felt. It is OK to euthanize a dog for not being safe. It is OK to continue to try to help it. It is OK to try to find a perfect person that can do a better job with the dog. This is clearly a genetic problem that is probably worse than any of us can see from written descriptions. My heart is with @Juliaa and her final decisions.

 

[Juliaa]

I agree with you. I'm a vet tech, Draco is my first Doberman. I've dealt with multiple aggressive dogs, and this dog's behaviour definitely is off. If qualified people are saying that something's off, then we should really take that into account. I got Draco when I was 20, he was a really difficult dog, and still can be due to his drive, but Tito's behaviour sounds like too much to me. I've seen the damage dog bites can do first hand. He's a liability I'm afraid...

This behaviour would not be allowed in my country, as dobermans are in the dangerous dog breed list, and aren't even allowed to walk without a muzzle and a really short leash, NEVER off leash, sadly. If police saw his behaviour, or someone sued you, the dog would be immediately put down.

I'm so sorry you have to go through this. East european dog lines are know to have a high % of inbreeding and aggression issues, I'm afraid. They breed for looks, not temperament, and this is the outcome.

I will say, other than being very smart he is extremely beautiful. His mom has a good temperament but …. What about dad? You know. My boyfriend did say, you’re not even allowed to walk dogs over there without muzzles on. Like you mentioned. Maybe it was luck of the draw and we got just the one puppy that’s like this, we’ll never know, it’s incredibly disappointing. He made my world surprising me and Tito was so calm at the airport and everywhere I thought wow this is great! Until…..

 

[Rits]

My heart goes out to you. Whatever you decide to do, you will and have done what's best for you and Tito. Don't ever feel guilty. I'm sorry it didn't work out the way you envisioned

 

[Cferg]

Is he still doing this?

Look, I'm all for trying to say this dog is a hard dog. It probably is. I'm all for saving dogs that show they can be saved. But the details don't add up that he's "just" a hard dog. The behaviorist labeled him as nervy. The number of people that can handle a hard dog are far and few between. The number of people that can handle a hard dog and want to take on, a rescue essentially, that is also nervy? Sorry guys, I'm going to disagree on this. Not all dogs need saved. Unless Juliaa feels armed enough to take on the incredible life altering task and push through on keeping this big liability. She's an experienced doberman home. It’s not like this is a complete first timer. Yes, there is a difference between working dobes and not. But if even Tito's breeder says this is odd behavior shes never seen in her dogs before. Then also an experienced behaviorist, that has experience with working breeds and dobermans, and saving dogs that are deemed aggressive from euthanasia? There are too many qualified people telling her that something is off with Tito. Its unfortunate but I think its even more unfair for Juliaa to feel that she could save him if she had just a bit more experience in handling a hard dog. Qualified people are saying that Tito isn't "just" a hard dog. I'd hate to see someone getting hurt.

I had to put down a two year old dog that had seizures, he was my first dog as an adult that I owned . A lot of what is described about Tito’s possible medical related sleep/waking episodes. Sounds like the early stages of my dog’s progression into full blown grand mal seizures.

My reason for bringing up this possibility, is I could see how a dog coming out of a seizure disoriented and unsure, with a baseline aggressive temperament. Could create an episode like has been described here. A dog with an unsure aggressive temperament default mode is well….aggression. Like I try to explain to people my dog isn’t mean or pissed off. The same level of stress that might make another dog cower away or avoid. My dog gets aggressive.

So just for everyone following along I have no problems with putting a dog down for medical or any behavioral problems that aren’t easily fixed or able to be managed reasonably.

 

[Juliaa]

My heart goes out to you. Whatever you decide to do, you will and have done what's best for you and Tito. Don't ever feel guilty. I'm sorry it didn't work out the way you envisioned

Thank you for everything

 

[dobermangalaxy]

@Juliaa Hi I realize I’m a bit late to this thread. Do you have any updates? Your puppy really reminds me of my doberman Jasmine. She’s now 10 months old but was a lot like yours when I brought her home at 11 weeks old. There were several nights that she woke up in her crate screaming like she was being murdered. It was very alarming to me because my first doberman never did this as a puppy. Anyways, this happened 2-3 times but then stopped completely. She used to growl/bark/lunge at every person and dog she saw on walks. She was doing this from the day I brought her home at just 11 weeks old. But now at 10 months old she has improved so much. She’s still a little reactive to other dogs, but no where near how she used to be. She still doesn’t like strangers petting her or screaming children, but she’s getting better every day. She gets a lot with other dogs if she’s properly introduced to them. The best dogs for her are neutral dogs that ignore her. She warms up to them the fastest. Anyways, she has been a HANDFUL! There were many many many times I was really bitter about her behavior. My first doberman was so easy. Literally the best most easy going temperament. My now doberman is so much work but I’m so glad I never gave up on her. Fear periods can be really intense for some dogs and some dogs really aren’t social with strangers and that’s okay as long as they can build up enough confidence to be somewhat neutral. All of that takes time. From what I’ve ready, your puppy doesn’t sound like it needs to be euthanized and I admittedly I really hope you haven’t done so. If your dog isn’t a right fit for you and you want to rehome, I don’t blame or judge you at all. But I personally think you should give your puppy an opportunity with someone else.