Reactivity?

[MichiH]

Pepper is seeing people now when we walk no issues even on bikes she’s fine now. We made it! Totally fine in stores and busy areas too.
As for dogs it seems bigger ones she reacts when we see them. She met 1 dog when she was first here my mil small dog. She loves her so much and tries to oaky with her, but she’s older and doesn’t play much.
I got a sneak attack today by the neighbors their son is visiting with his heeler. Pepper lost her mind. I was able to get her back to me and pay attention with - food of course and we did commands pretty close to their dog. She was then fine paid attention to me.
She saw the dog again later today unexpectedly and lost it again.

If we are on walks I’ll move and redirect make space and she’s fine. If it’s a smaller dog I still do above and have noticed she doesn’t even mind the dog.
Thoughts on her behavior? Today was not the normal as they don’t have a dog he was visiting and maybe that just got her too worked up? But I can’t have her do that each time they visit.
Classes this Saturday, nervous, but maybe she’ll be ok if dogs are also puppies?
As for bigger dogs I guess keep working on it and as she grows she’ll get better? Not sure if meeting only mil dog was enough during her impressionable period?

 

[BG1]

Good job. Not a trainer and a dobe noob in comparison to the crowd- but maybe a few months ahead of you, on our pup and from my perspective with past dogs and some focused training of me, on our dobie;

I'd say you are doing fine, great actually at "Be the pack leader" and good technique distract and redirect to training type work.

Imho; Your pup is going to read different dogs differently so despite your overall training and expectations you will naturally see some differences in your pups behavior, and that includes people, as well as new dogs.

Bonnie at 8+ months was picking up on "off" humans, drunk, disturbed, elderly with a cane or shuffling...takes time to build experience on whats ok and what isnt, and you are helping her do so, without being traumatized by it.

I've also read that "anxiety travels down the leash" so I work on ME being centered and calm, and of course- you are her protector right now from other aggressive dogs, so dont be aftaid to simply go elsewhere to avoid the out of control dog, especially off leash.

I think there are some youtube videos on leash reactivity- perhaps a knowledgeable trainer can suggest the better ones...

I know there are some real goofballs on youtube..."dr dog?", etc.
So just my $0.02 and YMMV as just another guy on the innertubes...

 

[BG1]

PS: good job on the group training too!

 

[Katyusharocket]

As for dogs it seems bigger ones she reacts when we see them.

Pepper lost her mind. I was able to get her back to me and pay attention with - food of course and we did commands pretty close to their dog. She was then fine paid attention to me.
She saw the dog again later today unexpectedly and lost it again.

Was the losing of her mind worse than with previous experiences with larger dogs? The element of surprise affects us all, think fight or flight, and I don't see Dobermans as particularly inclined to flight. Your reaction sounded like a good one, getting her focus back on you. Nice work IMHO.

Classes this Saturday, nervous, but maybe she’ll be ok if dogs are also puppies?

In the event a classmate is a dog that she reacts to, its probably a great environment to help her with it, a hopefully experienced trainer right there in the room. I think it might be great for her in the long run to have several weeks of experience learning that she doesn't need to react? Curious, where you are doing her training? Like Petco or Petsmart or local Kennel club? Other? I would be happy to read a thread about that and what you experience through time. I did Petco with Katyusha and did some stuff right with her, yet still looking to do even more right on another one.

I am no trainer, it was just one question and 2 things I thought of as I read your post. And then another afterthought question. I'll be happy to learn from you if you come up with anything that works particularly well!

 

[Cferg]

You can buy Michael Ellis leash reactivity course on leerburg, it’s awesome. Raising and training a dog is a marathon not a sprint. Your dog is going to make improvements and then regress for years to come. My dog is 3.5 and is still naturally smoothing out and I still can’t say with a straight face she is a mature dog. Because if I were to look back at were she was 6 months ago and the 6 months before that it’s noticeably better.
Sounds like you’re doing right for her age. Just enjoy the rollercoaster

 

[MichiH]

You can buy Michael Ellis leash reactivity course on leerburg, it’s awesome. Raising and training a dog is a marathon not a sprint. Your dog is going to make improvements and then regress for years to come. My dog is 3.5 and is still naturally smoothing out and I still can’t say with a straight face she is a mature dog. Because if I were to look back at were she was 6 months ago and the 6 months before that it’s noticeably better.
Sounds like you’re doing right for her age. Just enjoy the rollercoaster

Thank you for this! You’re right it’s a few steps forward and then a few steps back haha.

 

[MichiH]

Was the losing of her mind worse than with previous experiences with larger dogs? The element of surprise affects us all, think fight or flight, and I don't see Dobermans as particularly inclined to flight. Your reaction sounded like a good one, getting her focus back on you. Nice work IMHO.

In the event a classmate is a dog that she reacts to, its probably a great environment to help her with it, a hopefully experienced trainer right there in the room. I think it might be great for her in the long run to have several weeks of experience learning that she doesn't need to react? Curious, where you are doing her training? Like Petco or Petsmart or local Kennel club? Other? I would be happy to read a thread about that and what you experience through time. I did Petco with Katyusha and did some stuff right with her, yet still looking to do even more right on another one.

I am no trainer, it was just one question and 2 things I thought of as I read your post. And then another afterthought question. I'll be happy to learn from you if you come up with anything that works particularly well!

Well, yes, today with the surprise neighbor dog she mega lost it and ran after it then zapped herself on the fence. Had I known a dog was so close I would’ve been prepared with snacks before we went outside. Then again I saw them I the back of their yard so she and I went outfront to tug. Of course they came into their front yard and surprised Pepper and I. Lesson learned lol.

I am happy we were able to train with their dog so close to us after her initial reaction.

Yes, same I am hoping the classes also help her to not react like she can react. We are doing PetSmart I know I wish it were the kennel club, but they don’t have anything coming up yet. Plus, it’s really expensive. I did talk to the woman who runs classes at PetSmart, she seemed extremely knowledgeable and has been doing this for years. I explained to her Pepper may be reactive she said it’s ok we will work through it.

If you’d like to hear about how our classes go I will report for sure! Thanks so much for replying with your advice and experience. Appreciate it.

 

[Cferg]

Thank you for this! You’re right it’s a few steps forward and then a few steps back haha.

If I’m correct your dog is around 5-6 months? If so, and your dog is anything like mine. The train hasn’t even left the station. Buckle up haha

 

[MichiH]

PS: good job on the group training too!

Thank you

 

[Katyusharocket]

We are doing PetSmart I know I wish it were the kennel club, but they don’t have anything coming up yet. Plus, it’s really expensive

I don't think there's a thing wrong or insufficient about Petsmart. She will be leaps and bounds ahead of the puppies who don't get anything at all!

Raising and training a dog is a marathon not a sprint.

Totally agree here.

 

[MichiH]

Good job. Not a trainer and a dobe noob in comparison to the crowd- but maybe a few months ahead of you, on our pup and from my perspective with past dogs and some focused training of me, on our dobie;

I'd say you are doing fine, great actually at "Be the pack leader" and good technique distract and redirect to training type work.

Imho; Your pup is going to read different dogs differently so despite your overall training and expectations you will naturally see some differences in your pups behavior, and that includes people, as well as new dogs.

Bonnie at 8+ months was picking up on "off" humans, drunk, disturbed, elderly with a cane or shuffling...takes time to build experience on whats ok and what isnt, and you are helping her do so, without being traumatized by it.

I've also read that "anxiety travels down the leash" so I work on ME being centered and calm, and of course- you are her protector right now from other aggressive dogs, so dont be aftaid to simply go elsewhere to avoid the out of control dog, especially off leash.

I think there are some youtube videos on leash reactivity- perhaps a knowledgeable trainer can suggest the better ones...

I know there are some real goofballs on youtube..."dr dog?", etc.
So just my $0.02 and YMMV as just another guy on the innertubes...

Appreciate the advice and knowledge thank you!

I agree she does work off my anxiety which I’ve tried to contain. Usually I see the dogs first and we can work around it, but not today haha.

Yes plenty goofballs online!

We got passed reacting to people which is odd she even did. We would go to Lowe’s, Wawa, sit outside or go in and no issues whatsoever. Then we walk at home and she’d bark her head off. Maybe we aren’t past it, but I hope!

 

[Rits]

If it's only larger dogs she reacts to, it is a bit of a confidence issue most likely. Ripley doesn't react to dogs in places she expects them. But if we're out in the middle of nowhere or a dog comes into our yard, she blows up.

She's been able to come down a lot quicker now then a year ago and definitely quicker than 2 years ago. It just takes a lot, a lot of repetitions and practice. I try to engage her mind and make her work, walking away from the trigger so that I can get her under her threshold. When she listens, we play tug.

She's now learned that when she sees her trigger, she will do an initial explosion bark but then much more quickly looks at me to see if I am going to tell her to "stand down" which is my command for no more barking. She still leaks by whining but obliges and heels off with me.

It's hard because we are dealing with the instinct of the breed and trying to juggle that into something acceptable to us.

 

[Cferg]

We got passed reacting to people which is odd she even did. We would go to Lowe’s, Wawa, sit outside or go in and no issues whatsoever. Then we walk at home and she’d bark her head off. Maybe we aren’t past it, but I hope!

It’s not about being passed it. Dogs don’t generalize well so your dog understands from reps at Lowe’s of what is excepted of him. So due to his age and small number of reps in lots of different places. Lowes and your house are not the same contextually to him. Also you haven’t mentioned any positive punishment yet so I’m quite sure that’s what’s going on.

 

[MichiH]

Good points made about locations. Today was a surprise so that threw a kink in it. She’s young and I’m going to try my best to help her.
What do you mean by Pos punishment? I know what it means, but are you asking if I use it?

 

[MichiH]

If it's only larger dogs she reacts to, it is a bit of a confidence issue most likely. Ripley doesn't react to dogs in places she expects them. But if we're out in the middle of nowhere or a dog comes into our yard, she blows up.

She's been able to come down a lot quicker now then a year ago and definitely quicker than 2 years ago. It just takes a lot, a lot of repetitions and practice. I try to engage her mind and make her work, walking away from the trigger so that I can get her under her threshold. When she listens, we play tug.

She's now learned that when she sees her trigger, she will do an initial explosion bark but then much more quickly looks at me to see if I am going to tell her to "stand down" which is my command for no more barking. She still leaks by whining but obliges and heels off with me.

It's hard because we are dealing with the instinct of the breed and trying to juggle that into something acceptable to us.

I’m thinking confidence too she’s still so young. Classes will help me as well to see what’s really going on.
It is the nature of Dobermans which I understand, but also man it can be embarrassing haha.
Really helpful to know what you went through and how Ripley still will react a bit. That’s reassuring.
I use the word “enough”’ and “I see it” she’s been semi responding to it.

 

[Ravenbird]

So much good advice already said. I want to put big capitol letters on It's a Marathon. You are a long ways from home base, so just keep steady with it all. You'll be doing that 2 steps back 1 step forward for quite a while yet. It sounds like you may have an OK trainer at PetsMart, but if they cross over into any 100% PP FF stuff where they want to see you "let your dog make decisions", I'd have to say it's not worth it. Just hear them out, see how it goes and take it from there. If the instructor doesn't ask the clients with outrageous behaved puppies to get control of them, then the whole lesson will be out of control. My biggest failure was not walking out on training that wasn't helpful to my dog or me. My dog needed a leader and a strong hand and I kept being told that "she would come around and make the right choices". "Let her pull on the leash, just stand your ground and she will come back to you, let her make the choice". She didn't give a flying burrito if she choked or not and nobody but me could see that. Just sayin'.

I think you're doing great with her - way ahead of where I was with mine at 5 months. You will see better behavior as she matures, but between now and then, you will have triumphs and pit falls. Enjoy the ride and trust yourself and all these great comments.

 

[Cferg]

Good points made about locations. Today was a surprise so that threw a kink in it. She’s young and I’m going to try my best to help her.
What do you mean by Pos punishment? I know what it means, but are you asking if I use it?

Yes are you applying +punishment? I’m not saying you should be. That’s not something I would recommend to you with a dog this age, at least over the internet without seeing in person his obedience and your relationship.

Another question I have is how big are her reactions? Is it big booming explosive barking? Are there growls in there? Or is just regular dog barks and yipping?

 

[Ravenbird]

I’m thinking confidence too she’s still so young. Classes will help me as well to see what’s really going on.
It is the nature of Dobermans which I understand, but also man it can be embarrassing haha.

All true! Classes helped me tons, and it was the "social" hour for Asha to be around people & dogs, but not play with them, have to pay attention to me. I would have given anything if I'd had a different type of teacher. And yes, I was embarrassed to death. I'd never had a puppy like this. Also, I'll add that once Asha got use to her class, all the people, all the dogs, if someone new showed up or walked in to ask a question she totally lost it. "You aren't part of this group! OUT you sorry invader, get out!!!" I swear I had both hands wrapped around her muzzle and the barking, growling and spittle was still flying. My teacher was agast (her method was to let her bark until she stopped, then give her treats for being quiet. So yeah, a nightmare, but it was better than nothing to get the exposure maybe.

 

[Ravenbird]

Yes are you applying +punishment? I’m not saying you should be. That’s not something I would recommend to you with a dog this age, at least over the internet without seeing in person his obedience and your relationship.

All +P translates to is correction. If a dog pulls and you pop the leash, that's +P. A 5 month old puppy can deal with that.

 

[Katyusharocket]

I use the word “enough”’ and “I see it” she’s been semi responding to it.

I use "that's enough" but I like the "I see it" as well. She mastered the "that's enough" just this summer.

I’m thinking confidence too she’s still so young. Classes will help me as well to see what’s really going on

IMHO, you're totally paying attention to your Doberman and that's going to pay off like a huge jackpot. Its something I really believe in. Watch them, hear them, they can tell us a lot!

Lowes and your house are not the same contextually to him.

completely agree here. My therapy Dobie is so reliably sweet to nearly everyone off our yard. At home, she's a hostile b*tc@, and I'm fine with letting her tell passers-by to go ahead and f around and find out.

All true! Classes helped me tons, and it was the "social" hour for Asha to be around people & dogs, but not play with them, have to pay attention to me.

this is what therapy sessions accomplish for us. Once I grab her therapy folder and put her Alliance of therapy dogs tag on, she knows already that we are going to go into a room with a lot of people and dogs. The people she may greet with my ok. The dogs, she has become very used to the fact that she isn't getting within 2 feet of any of them.