Zastava's body condition/type

[Katyusharocket]

Zastava is kind of puzzling me. She eats a cup more food than Katyusha does every day. I don’t often see her ribs, i can feel them if I press my hands in pretty good, but when I see her belly area, I think "you need a sandwich." Maybe it's just her build? She looking okay to you all?
She isn't showing distress, I have no reason to believe she has any parasites (although she will have a fecal to confirm in june). I just cant seem to put any weight on her, although maybe she doesn't need it. She just seems skinny to me compared to other Dobermans I see.

 

[JanS]

I don't think she's too skinny at all but after seeing her in person a few times I do think she is on the thin side of normal. It seems that she would have a bit more muscle now that she's over 2 with her activity.
Perhaps trying a different food might help?

 

[Js4fn]

Teaspoon of hemp seed hearts each meal Try small amount to rule out allergies

 

[Sunje]

Could she need worming? Maybe a higher protein food?

 

[Katyusharocket]

Could she need worming? Maybe a higher protein food?

Although i have not seen a reason to suspect worming is needed, its not impossible that its true. Will check that out at her yearly.

As far as her foods, we rotate through 4 varieties of Fromm's, I can double check but I think they are between 24 and 28% protein?

 

[Ravenbird]

When Asha was intact, which was for 6 years, she would swing from very slim as you've pictured Z, to a fuller, softer figure for about 2 months after heat. I would increase her rations to no avail when she was in her skinny stage. But we also did a LOT of physical work so I know she was burning a lot of calories. She stayed between 66 & 70 lbs. Higher fat diets will add weight quicker than higher protein, but be mindful that it's not healthy unless she's on a very active exercise routine. And more care should be taken with higher fat diet if she has the copper storage tendency.

An intact dog will have a higher metabolism burning calories no matter what their exercise is, so keep that in mind comparing her to K. Reckless chunked up in less than 3 months after her spay and Asha was 72 lbs 2 months after her spay - the most she's ever weighed in her life.

My tried and true and very best advice is, if they are too thin feed more, if they are too fat feed less. If her training & exercise is about the same as always, I'd just up her ration and not change foods.

IF you have a lot of intense exercise going on daily - I mixed this kibble half and half with Ashas regular kibble to boost her protein & fat content. I was impressed with 89% of protein coming from meat sources rather than soybeans, but I have backed off of it since doing her spay in January and much less exercise the last couple of months.

https://www.chewy.com/diamond-pro89-beef-pork-ancient/dp/292689?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=20642766391&utm_content=&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20633250864&gbraid=0AAAAADmQ2V27Eu3WrrAh-Z6G8abfUSDwi&gclid=Cj0KCQjwk_bPBhDXARIsACiq8R0n_xhM27fR9lpEj016xb5pX0WH599p7mxIWHt5YrmdVFVsMfgx3qIaAlnpEALw_wcB

 

[Katyusharocket]

IF you have a lot of intense exercise going on daily - I mixed this kibble half and half with Ashas regular kibble to boost her protein & fat content.

I wouldn't say she gets intense exercise daily. She has her days when she can run at the park, and does, quite a bit. They wrestle around but that takes the two of them, and Katyusha looks way different. I would say Z is very active. For instance, she almost never is still if I am home and standing up. she makes laps around the kitchen as I get meals ready. She jumps up and down if she knows we are going outside. If I take them for a walk at the same time, our pace isn't fast enough for her, so she spins counterclockwise on her part of the leash (this actually drives me crazy, but I tolerate it). Maybe all of that combined adds up to way more calorie burn than one might guess?

That Diamond 89 looks like a solid food, and I can get it where I usually shop for them, if my memory serves me correctly.

 

[Ravenbird]

Z sounds like she has Asha-energy.

I get the Diamond kibbles at Tractor Supply here. Just saying that this kind of food is not for couch dogs and if you get it, I would introduce it gradually - the higher fat & protein tends to give them softer stool. I never even got to where I was feeding it more than half the kibble ration.

 

[Katyusharocket]

Z sounds like she has Asha-energy.

I would say they are comparable in energy, from what I have seen of Asha. I think they actually share some breeding lines, Sant Kreal, perhaps?

Just saying that this kind of food is not for couch dogs and if you get it, I would introduce it gradually - the higher fat & protein tends to give them softer stool.

twice a day, she gets one heaping cup of her kibble plus half cup leveled, I coat that with dried bovine blood plasma (which I now completely swear by, i mean I really drank the Kool-Aid on that stuff) plus 3 pumps of salmon oil, and a dessert of about 3 tablespoons natural peanut butter. I could try making that level half cup the diamond and see what happens.

 

[LifeofRubie]

Zastava's body condition looks like a lot like Rubie's from what I can see.

Rubie has always been a thin gal (spayed around 2 years old). She hovers just under 60lbs and Moose hovers just around 80lbs so say there is a 20lb difference between them and they eat the EXACT same amount of the EXACT same food.

I know she has a vest on here but she's always had a "model's waist." this was pretty recently so close to 10.5 years old.


Z is just over two now? This is dingo at about 2.5 years old:





I will say, she was hit or miss with eating before Moo came along. Every since he came home, she eats all her food when it's presented lol

At 2, Z might still might have some maturing to do, too.

 

[Katyusharocket]

Z is just over two now? This is dingo at about 2.5 years old:

Oh, wow, they do have a similar build. Maybe Z is just normal and I overthink it?

At 2, Z might still might have some maturing to do, too.

That also is true, and I should keep that in mind.

great pics, by the way!

 

[MichiH]

I love the thin waist on the girls! I think the thin waist and big barrel chests look gorgeous on Dobermans. Z looks like she’s just thin and she’s also active, made me laugh with the leash spins. Pepper does that too and it makes me insane.
I don’t have much advice as I have a tubby girl lol. More kibble for Z? See how she does gi and weight wise maybe?
How tall is she?

 

[Katyusharocket]

How tall is she?

In February, she measured 25.5 inches at the withers and her weight was 63.4. I would be surprised if she was much different than that now. Maybe I will stop over at the clinic and weigh her tomorrow. I'm curious now.

 

[MichiH]

In February, she measured 25.5 inches at the withers and her weight was 63.4. I would be surprised if she was much different than that now. Maybe I will stop over at the clinic and weigh her tomorrow. I'm curious now.

Yeah that’s a good idea and let us know! I think she looks great, better to have them thinner anyways.

That’s funny that’s exactly what Pepper is now height and weight.

 

[JanS]

As far as her foods, we rotate through 4 varieties of Fromm's

Oh I didn't know you were on Fromm's but that is a good food.
We've always had good luck with TOTW ancient grains (same company as Diamond last I looked) but all dogs can vary on what works for them.

 

[Katyusharocket]

Oh I didn't know you were on Fromm's but that is a good food.

Yes. At the time of last year's shows, though, I had them on Member's Mark from Sam's club. It seemed to have a decent ingredient panel and guaranteed analysis. But Katyusha started hesitating at meal time, and her hesitation turned into a look of "are you sure this is ok for me and you really want me to eat it"? So at that point I turned to Fromm's. They stock a full line of it at a pet store we go to often anyway, so it's easy to get for us. No more hesitation, not even a little!

 

[MikeP]

Zastava is kind of puzzling me. She eats a cup more food than Katyusha does every day. I don’t often see her ribs, i can feel them if I press my hands in pretty good, but when I see her belly area, I think "you need a sandwich." Maybe it's just her build? She looking okay to you all?View attachment 160509View attachment 160510
She isn't showing distress, I have no reason to believe she has any parasites (although she will have a fecal to confirm in june). I just cant seem to put any weight on her, although maybe she doesn't need it. She just seems skinny to me compared to other Dobermans I see.

The top view appears to show underweight and appearance perhaps due to an optics perspective that exaggerates the appearance. The profile view IMO appears to show slight underweight as attested to by a 25 1/2 in height - 64 lb body weight.

One other observation is the coat in the side view photo. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the appearance of thinning coat midway torso behind the last rib, and the size of a hand plus the smaller circular appearing bare patch twigs reason to suspect thyroid issues.. Perhaps it is lighting glare appearing as thinning coat and if so disregard that alert.

Hyperthyroidism could be an issue in light of other descriptive comments made about the overactive behaviour, endless energy, eating more than adequate calories yet no weight gain plus thinning coat if that is the case.

My Dobe has hypothyroidism opposite to hyperthyroidism and has recovered and is on meds to stabilize T4 and is doing well. Consequently a thyroid issue where T4 levels are out of whack might be at play and if suspect then raise the issue with your vet soon.

 

[BG1]

Good point @MikeP
OP, IIRC its somewhere here or "the other forum" you can find a good outline profile diagram showing side profile, and top down look, with four slighly different shapes; then to fat...
Applying those to your pics from my basic dobe noob experience it looks like you got a healthy dog, just a tad on lean side.
Which is better than on the chubby side btw.

I've also read that on fit males you expect to see good muscle definition plus some sign of ribs under muscle..

but in the healthy girls its acceptable to see a bit more of a sleek look from a bit more body fat and only see maybe the last two floating ribs. So again, ok if a bit lean.

BYB Bonnie is a bit chubby and I'm working on that by adding exercise as (cough) ahem...noticing same in mirror!

Maybe some bike work someplace flat and not much traffic?

 

[Katyusharocket]

One other observation is the coat in the side view photo. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the appearance of thinning coat midway torso behind the last rib, and the size of a hand plus the smaller circular appearing bare patch twigs reason to suspect thyroid issues.. Perhaps it is lighting glare appearing as thinning coat and if so disregard that alert.

No, that's not lighting glare. She gets bald patches like that just before and just after her heat cycles, so you are seeing accurately, it's just that all 3 of her vets agree, after skin scrapings and multiple consultations with each one, it's an issue related to hormones and how her body reacts to the fluctuations of them.

Hyperthyroidism could be an issue in light of other descriptive comments made about the overactive behaviour, endless energy, eating more than adequate calories yet no weight gain plus thinning coat if that is the case.

here is her OFA thyroid report from January. Her vet told me that while a report generated for OFA will diagnose Compensative Autoimmune Thyroiditis at 26%, any testing done for purposes other than OFA are not diagnoseed until 36%. The vet's interpretation of this report was that while her innume system is indeed attacking her thyroid, it is still functioning as it should, so the attack has not yet been successful in making her thyroid function abnormal. It might someday be successful, just not yet, or, it may never be successful and her thyroid may be fully functioning her whole life.

Maybe some bike work someplace flat and not much traffic?

That actually sounds like a lot of fun and we have both plenty of "flat" and "not much traffic" in our part of the continent. might look more into that.

OP, IIRC its somewhere here or "the other forum" you can find a good outline profile diagram showing side profile, and top down look, with four slighly different shapes; then to fat...

I think it was here, as I recall it but am not part of any other forum. It might be a few pages back in the Pepper thread, IIRC, and I think @remy put it out there, but I can't say for sure from memory. That was an educational diagram to see.