Your opinion on ear cropping tail docking?

I do not think she meant that if you want a cropped dog to choose another breed, as that does not make sense as you said. Without human intervention, and in quite a few countries, a Doberman IS a flop eared breed.
I am not talking about how the Doberman is born, I am talking about the choice to crop – which of course I know is a choice that has been stripped from people in many places and is a situation which is truly sad.

I will probably step off, for now, of trying to have my words understood here, as I know people will swoop in on this thread and take this back-and-forth out of context.
 
Wow... thanks guys for the responses! Here's what I think;
I LOVE C&D Dobes. I think they're very pretty. I just don't like the fact that it's a medical procedure. The way I look at it is, it's like one of us loosing a thumb. Sure, if we lost it when we were young enough, we would learn to function without it, and so on... but does that mean we're going to cut off a thumb? Even if everyone started doing? I don't think so. I'm not so strongly against D as I am C, but I still am.

My sister knows someone who has a Dobe pup that had his ears done, and the pup was in soo much pain! Why do that to a dog just for looks? (The only reason her friend did it)

I agree with what @Judith said; "you tell me that if I want a natural look, go with another dog. I could tell you the same".

If a dog is meant to have standing ears, they'll stand naturally. Just like GSD, Chihuahaus, ect.

And I understand, it's hard to picture a Dobe without C&D. And if you choose to do so, then that's fine. I just don't agree. A Doberman is a Doberman, whether she has a tail, floppy ears or not, or no eyes.

I don't want this post to be an argument... I simply meant for everyone's opinions. like I said, it's your choice whether or not you choose to C&D, no one here is going to change it, so quit trying to.
 
Why should I choose another breed if I am happy to keep the dog natural ? why would you even say this when all I see with this d/c argument is the statement " it's all about having the choice" , "if you want a pricked eared dog get another breed" see how stupid it sound, I have no doubt that in my life time the d/c will be banned worldwide so I assume many will be leaving the breed behind as I have read many will not keep a natural Doberman I would never give up owning this breed, I am done with this thread the argument will always be there, you preferred them D/C I prefer them natural I have no problem with D/C otherwise I would not be on this site.

Yes @strykerdobe we in the UK can still import D/C and many people do but why anyone would do this I don't understand, they send their money for a picture they see online, they never meet the parents or the puppy until they pick it up at the airport, the new owners are left to keep posting their ears which they have absolutely no idea of what it entails and end up cropped but flopped then put into rescue because they cannot cope with a working Euro Doberman with ears that are not one or the other.
 
Why should I choose another breed if I am happy to keep the dog natural ? why would you even say this when all I see with this d/c argument is the statement " it's all about having the choice" , "if you want a pricked eared dog get another breed" see how stupid it sound, I have no doubt that in my life time the d/c will be banned worldwide so I assume many will be leaving the breed behind as I have read many will not keep a natural Doberman I would never give up owning this breed, I am done with this thread the argument will always be there, you preferred them D/C I prefer them natural I have no problem with D/C otherwise I would not be on this site.

Yes @strykerdobe we in the UK can still import D/C and many people do but why anyone would do this I don't understand, they send their money for a picture they see online, they never meet the parents or the puppy until they pick it up at the airport, the new owners are left to keep posting their ears which they have absolutely no idea of what it entails and end up cropped but flopped then put into rescue because they cannot cope with a working Euro Doberman with ears that are not one or the other.
Exactly. I keep hearing that C&D isn't only for the looks, but for potential tail problems or ear problems, or they can hear better ect. But most people, unless it's people who do research after research or high end breeders, do it for just the looks. Someone who's never had a Dobe before might get one, only for the C&D look, not for the breed itself. If C&D became illegal, this dog breed will become rare. Same with GD, Boxers, Ect.

It's makes no sense to tell someone to get another dog breed if they don't like C&D Dobes. Just as insane as telling someone to get another dog breed with already standing ears if they do like it.
 
Why should I choose another breed if I am happy to keep the dog natural ? why would you even say this when all I see with this d/c argument is the statement " it's all about having the choice" , "if you want a pricked eared dog get another breed" see how stupid it sound, I have no doubt that in my life time the d/c will be banned worldwide so I assume many will be leaving the breed behind as I have read many will not keep a natural Doberman I would never give up owning this breed, I am done with this thread the argument will always be there, you preferred them D/C I prefer them natural I have no problem with D/C otherwise I would not be on this site.

Yes @strykerdobe we in the UK can still import D/C and many people do but why anyone would do this I don't understand, they send their money for a picture they see online, they never meet the parents or the puppy until they pick it up at the airport, the new owners are left to keep posting their ears which they have absolutely no idea of what it entails and end up cropped but flopped then put into rescue because they cannot cope with a working Euro Doberman with ears that are not one or the other.
No, it's not about the choice – choosing either crop or not crop. It's about the legal ability (and that's how I probably should have phrased it) to keep the breed how it was intended to be (erect ears!) It does not sound stupid.

One thing that I somewhat agree with you on is that C&D will inevitably be outlawed worldwide. That is when I will leave the breed.

I assume you love the "natural" (which is not actually natural) eared Doberman because cropping is outlawed where you live and that is what you have come to know and love. Here is the thing, and here is where the word "stupid" applies: How stupid is it that the misguided, diseases that are the notions of animal "rights" and political correctness have removed from the citizenry the right to keep this breed as it was intended to be – cropped and docked? How insane and sad is it that in the very place where this breed was set on its trajectory toward glory and majesty that cropping and docking has been outlawed because misguided people don't have the stomach for it?

When I say people should maybe get a different breed if they don't like C&D I say so because of deep implications for the breed. It goes beyond your personal bias, Judith, which again I say is likely shaped by the wacky banning of C&D where you live.

I have kept my tone civil, but I will respond in kind when you level aggressive, insulting words at me.
 
Wow... thanks guys for the responses! Here's what I think;
I LOVE C&D Dobes. I think they're very pretty. I just don't like the fact that it's a medical procedure. The way I look at it is, it's like one of us loosing a thumb. Sure, if we lost it when we were young enough, we would learn to function without it, and so on... but does that mean we're going to cut off a thumb? Even if everyone started doing? I don't think so. I'm not so strongly against D as I am C, but I still am.

My sister knows someone who has a Dobe pup that had his ears done, and the pup was in soo much pain! Why do that to a dog just for looks? (The only reason her friend did it)

I agree with what @Judith said; "you tell me that if I want a natural look, go with another dog. I could tell you the same".

If a dog is meant to have standing ears, they'll stand naturally. Just like GSD, Chihuahaus, ect.

And I understand, it's hard to picture a Dobe without C&D. And if you choose to do so, then that's fine. I just don't agree. A Doberman is a Doberman, whether she has a tail, floppy ears or not, or no eyes.

I don't want this post to be an argument... I simply meant for everyone's opinions. like I said, it's your choice whether or not you choose to C&D, no one here is going to change it, so quit trying to.
Annnd, welcome to the powder-keg.

All I am willing to do at this point it suggest you go back and read carefully the things I have written in this thread thus far. It will answer some of your questions.

I have already debunked Judith's "I could tell you the same" notion, so repeat it if you wish.

I don't want to have an unpleasant argument either, and I tried hard to keep from doing so. Everyone needs to keep their words civil. Otherwise we all have the right to defend ourselves.
 
I will suggest checking out my thread "My Grim Fearful Prediction" which I started a couple years ago or so.

Janie... mentions the Boxer and the Great Dane. Cropping has very decidedly fallen out of favor in the Boxer and to something approaching the same extent in the Dane. Look at the modern day Boxer. The typical example of the once-awesome Boxer is pathetic. Currently very popular to own among the young and the Hipster, it is small, slinky ugly and mostly from rescues. The Dane is also very popular among the aforementioned crowd and is almost always uncropped.
 
I will suggest checking out my thread "My Grim Fearful Prediction" which I started a couple years ago or so.
I did. I read a few posts, and will continue tomorrow as it's late here (2 am). There are a few things I want to bring up, but the first thing is this;
I continue to ask why people want a Doberman if they don't want what it was intended to be.
A Doberman can still be used for what it was intended to be used for, even if the ears and tail is not done. I'll get back to you guys tomorrow, but in the mean time, please keep this nice and decent. No need for a big fight when we can have a simple discussion .
 
I did. I read a few posts, and will continue tomorrow as it's late here (2 am). There are a few things I want to bring up, but the first thing is this;
A Doberman can still be used for what it was intended to be used for, even if the ears and tail is not done. I'll get back to you guys tomorrow, but in the mean time, please keep this nice and decent. No need for a big fight when we can have a simple discussion .
I, from here deep within the sphere of understanding, hear the knock of your query coming from out on the surface. :joycat:

How many people who want this breed because of how cuddly and affectionate it is, or they like the markings, or it seems cool, will use their Doberman for what it was originally intended to do? If they don't really know the breed and just get a Dobe from whatever source, most likely that Dobe will not be able to perform the service for which the breed was created.

I agree that this should be kept civil. At this time, I pray and wish safety, comfort and security for all those threatened by hurricane Irma.
 
Wait... did you really say that if you couldn't have a cd dobe that you would leave the breed? This has to be one of the saddest things I have read. So all their loyalty, personality, companionship, intelligence, and overall goofy, loving temperaments isn't enough? They have to "look" a certain way in order to still be interested? This sounds crazy to me. My dog could have a fifth leg and I wouldn't look at him differently.
 
I respect your right to dock/crop , what I am disputing is being told I should get another breed, the breed to me is not just ears or tail Heir Doberman put together a unique dog there is so much more to them than just the way they look , to me anyways, got my first Dobe in 1986 and the fact that anyone would leave the breed tells me everything I need to know, it would have been such a different story if Heir Doberman had not had a pair of scissors handy.
 
I am old school. Well, let's face it, I'm just old! lol I grew up knowing that all breeds had a standard. That's what differentiated one from another. You recognized a breed at a glance from its standard. That, and only that, is why I am Pro crop/dock.

It's not because a long tail wipes a table. Really? You cut off a tail because it wipes a table? No. In my book, crop/dock is a STANDARD. Put a period after that!

When you pick a dog breed you not only look at its inner qualities, but its outer. Do I like the look of this dog? Do I prefer long or short hair? Do I like a dog with this height or smaller? You take them ALL in. But most of all, it cannot be denied, that we all are drawn to a particular breed, first, by its looks. It should not be the ONLY thing though because what the dog has been bred for should also come into play. And that is also a Standard!

I knew the size dog I was looking for and I knew the type of coat on them that I was looking for. I also LOVED the Standard look of a Doberman! Made my heart swell just looking at them! :love: Then my sister sealed it for me by telling me they are a loyal, family orientated dog! Yup. A Doberman it was!

I joined DCF in Mar of 2009. THAT is when I heard, for the first time, all the ruckus about crop/dock. I was shocked. Honestly. I must have been living under a rock! Because I couldn't believe that standards (ANY standard) are suddenly being challenged, changed, and fought about! Really? To me, its all that political correctness trailing down to our pets! :sick: The 'people in charge' are weak and buckling to the public. All my years of growing up it was never a problem! Never. Why now?

You want an uncropped/undocked Doberman......go for it. I don't have a problem with that! I really don't!! But don't beat me over the head for my crop/dock Doberman! Leave the Standard, the STANDARD. If you have a dog with ears and tails, have fun with them! It's YOUR dog and beautiful!! But leave the 'rules' alone. So I can also have the Doberman I love!

It seems to me, that people in this day and age are so concerned about 'the other person'. When you've lived as long as I have with a Standard that have never changed, you could understand my frustration. It's not about what 'you do or what I do'. Do what you want. Do what you love. Just don't push it on anyone else by changing the Standard.
 
Also I never called you stupid @Oh Little Oji , I said this comment sounded stupid "if you want a pricked eared dog get another breed" see how stupid it sounds.
 
@MyBuddy I agree with you in fact Buddy was named after your beautiful boy, I respect you have the decision to c/d I don't have the decision but I am ok with that, what gets my back up is being told to get another breed with natural ears and tails, who would want another breed I love the Doberman and everything it encompasses, hope you are all well, how are Buddy's eyes ?
 
It raises the curiosity in me: Can you explain why you want others to not have bad, botched or flopped crops?

Because it leaves a bad image on cropping in the public eye. Think of it as an advertisement. You want that ad to look its best. When you hire a poor graphic designer, the results show and reflects a bit badly on your business. I don't want the public to think that is how cropping is supposed to look. Its funny the number of times you hear on here how the public has no idea an adult doberman with cropped ears was actually cropped, while they see the puppy next to it in posts saying "oh you poor thing!" Bad crop jobs and post jobs makes cropping in general look bad.
 
I am old school. Well, let's face it, I'm just old! lol I grew up knowing that all breeds had a standard. That's what differentiated one from another. You recognized a breed at a glance from its standard. That, and only that, is why I am Pro crop/dock.

It's not because a long tail wipes a table. Really? You cut off a tail because it wipes a table? No. In my book, crop/dock is a STANDARD. Put a period after that!

When you pick a dog breed you not only look at its inner qualities, but its outer. Do I like the look of this dog? Do I prefer long or short hair? Do I like a dog with this height or smaller? You take them ALL in. But most of all, it cannot be denied, that we all are drawn to a particular breed, first, by its looks. It should not be the ONLY thing though because what the dog has been bred for should also come into play. And that is also a Standard!

I knew the size dog I was looking for and I knew the type of coat on them that I was looking for. I also LOVED the Standard look of a Doberman! Made my heart swell just looking at them! :love: Then my sister sealed it for me by telling me they are a loyal, family orientated dog! Yup. A Doberman it was!

I joined DCF in Mar of 2009. THAT is when I heard, for the first time, all the ruckus about crop/dock. I was shocked. Honestly. I must have been living under a rock! Because I couldn't believe that standards (ANY standard) are suddenly being challenged, changed, and fought about! Really? To me, its all that political correctness trailing down to our pets! :sick: The 'people in charge' are weak and buckling to the public. All my years of growing up it was never a problem! Never. Why now?

You want an uncropped/undocked Doberman......go for it. I don't have a problem with that! I really don't!! But don't beat me over the head for my crop/dock Doberman! Leave the Standard, the STANDARD. If you have a dog with ears and tails, have fun with them! It's YOUR dog and beautiful!! But leave the 'rules' alone. So I can also have the Doberman I love!

It seems to me, that people in this day and age are so concerned about 'the other person'. When you've lived as long as I have with a Standard that have never changed, you could understand my frustration. It's not about what 'you do or what I do'. Do what you want. Do what you love. Just don't push it on anyone else by changing the Standard.
^^^^^ THIS!! Amen to that Sista'!:thumbsup:
 
@MyBuddy I agree with you in fact Buddy was named after your beautiful boy, I respect you have the decision to c/d I don't have the decision but I am ok with that, what gets my back up is being told to get another breed with natural ears and tails, who would want another breed I love the Doberman and everything it encompasses, hope you are all well, how are Buddy's eyes ?
Thank you for that, Judith! Buddy's eye is doing great! I posted updated photos if you go here Buddy's eye surgery
 
Because it leaves a bad image on cropping in the public eye. Think of it as an advertisement. You want that ad to look its best. When you hire a poor graphic designer, the results show and reflects a bit badly on your business. I don't want the public to think that is how cropping is supposed to look. Its funny the number of times you hear on here how the public has no idea an adult doberman with cropped ears was actually cropped, while they see the puppy next to it in posts saying "oh you poor thing!" Bad crop jobs and post jobs makes cropping in general look bad.
Exactly! And you know what? IF there were no botched ear crops this Standard would never have been compromised. In my opinion. :2cents
 
Wait... did you really say that if you couldn't have a cd dobe that you would leave the breed? This has to be one of the saddest things I have read. So all their loyalty, personality, companionship, intelligence, and overall goofy, loving temperaments isn't enough? They have to "look" a certain way in order to still be interested? This sounds crazy to me. My dog could have a fifth leg and I wouldn't look at him differently.
One of the saddest things you've ever heard? Allrighty then. I think this breed is pretty darned awesome; but I never took the oath of undying loyalty I guess – apparently unlike some of you. The Doberman is just the breed that best fits me, my life and what I need and want. Take away the cropped ears and docked tail from the breed and it will tip the scales for me. I'm gonna go and not be sad now.
 

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