White dobermans

[ChromeNun]

wow. Someone that actually really had owned a dog related to warlock. lol. I have met so many people who throw that warlock word around. your almost like a unicorn

I forgot to mention that I had visited your website earlier, and you, indeed, have some FINE, AWESOME Dobies!!!! Exactly what I invision when I think of a Doberman.

 

[FredC]

Hello ChromeNun, I hope this helps you make an informed decision. And im also sorry that the breeder was less then truthful to you. And id even go as far as saying deceptive and deplorable. I have no doubt you have a great and beautiful Doberman. Unfortunatly it sounds like you got more then you bargained for. I hope this article from the DPCA helps.

OPERATION: "WHITE OUT"

STOPPING THE EXPANDING
GENE POOL OF
ALBINISTIC "WHITE" DOBERMANS



1 WHAT IS A "WHITE" DOBERMAN?


A "White" or Albinistic Doberman has a genetic fault that masks the pigment of our four normal colors. It is a recessive gene which, when expressed, greatly reduces the number of pigment granules (melanocytes) in hair, skin and eyes. This gives the appearance of a light cream base coat with dead white markings. They always have translucent blue eyes with pink noses, eye rims and foot pads. They are TYROSINASE POSITIVE ALBINOS.
Geneticists and examining veterinarians have determined that these dogs suffer from a deleterious form of partial albinism. The greatly reduced pigment in skin and eyes causes marked photosensitivity (squint or shut eyes in sunlight) and increased risk of solar skin damage including cancer. PHOTOSENSITIVITY IS A HANDICAP FOR A WORKING BREED.
The AKC is registering dogs displaying a trait never previously described in our breed's history as pure bred. Since the recognition of Dobermans as a distinct breed, our Standard has always sought to eliminate even a small spot of white on the chest.
The original purpose of our breed was that of a working sentry dog to accompany their masters on their rounds at night. White is readily seen, thereby destroying the element of surprise and impairing the dog's ability to do its' work.
The DPCA will not give up this important part of our breed's heritage. We cannot allow the intrusion of a trait that is so adverse to the Standard of our breed in both appearance and functionality.

2 A PARENT CLUB'S RESPONSIBILITY


Allowing the albinistic trait to spread is a serious threat to the genetic integrity of the entire Doberman breed. The DPCA has an obligation to educate its members, breeders and Doberman fanciers in general to preserve and protect the Breed for the future.
The DPCA must prevent the breeders of "white" Dobermans from further contaminating our gene pool. Do not let the promoters of "white" Dobermans fool you. Our breed is not improved by this practice. Ethical breeders do not intentionally breed for disqualifying faults.
Breeders of disqualified Dobermans would like to lead the public to believe that their dogs are miraculously free of health problems. This is a fallacy. They have used the distant bloodlines of ethical breeders in a desperate attempt to improve the temperament, health, and conformation of their poor quality animals. The original animals were indiscriminately inbred to Shebah (the first AKC registered "white" Doberman, 1979) solely for her unique color.
As much as breeders of "white" Dobermans would have these genetic aberrations appear harmless, the danger lies with the colored littermates. The prospect of having to cull 'whites' from our litters has been unheard of in the history of our breed. When the novelty has worn off, DPCA members will be left to clean up the yet unpredictable genetic problems forced on ethical breeders. If we are cautious now, "white" will not become a new feature of our breed.

3 BUY AND BREED ONLY "Z" FREE


AKC agrees to implement a tracking system using a "Z" in the registration number thus helping breeders and buyers identify carriers of the albinistic trait. A trait that is the result of having a "white" parent or an ancestor tracing directly to Shebah's parents. This information helps to segregate the gene pools by aiding in the identification of puppies, stud dogs and brood bitches that are free of the deleterious gene.
Buyers are cautioned against the "Z" on the AKC blue slip when they are considering buying a puppy. A "Z" in the litter number will identify puppies that could potentially produce a litter containing "white".
Breeders will now have a simple way of excluding this trait from their breeding program. Ethical breeders are expected to use this information with each planned litter.
The "Z" coding is not retroactive and will be assigned to affected litters in the coming year. There will be a "lag" time of about eight years in which there will be breeding animals that do not carry the "Z" in their AKC registration number, yet are potential carriers.
AKC has addressed this concern by providing identification lists to the DPCA for its use in monitoring the interim registrations.
The list will be sorted both by AKC number and by name of the dog.
All breeders must check this list to be sure they are not breeding or buying a Doberman with the albinistic trait. In addition, it is wise to verify a dog's registration number with an AKC certified pedigree. Vigilance is crucial during this interim period to slow the expanding gene pool of albinistic Dobermans.
The number of AKC registrations of "white" Dobermans has nearly doubled every year since 1990. Only you can help stop this proliferation.


4 THE DPCA'S POLICY ON "WHITE" DOBERMANS



After investigation, the Doberman Pinscher Club of America has determined that the albinistic trait is deleterious to the breed and should be considered a disqualifying genetic fault as described in the Doberman Pinscher Club of America's Standard* and Code of Ethics**.

• We discourage breeders from allowing this trait to spread and recommend the following:
• White specimens, the parents of whites and the litter mates of whites SHOULD NOT BE BRED.
• All of these dogs should be spayed or neutered.
• None of these dogs should be registered.
• If registration is allowed for these dogs, it should be limited.

*The AKC Standard for Doberman Pinschers allows only Black, Red, Blue and Fawn (Isabella) colors with Rust markings. Any other color is a Disqualifying Fault.

**The DPCA Code of Ethics: No bitch will be bred more than once a year, nor prior to one and one half (1 1/2) years of age, nor after eight (8) years of age and should be in good health and free from communicable diseases and disqualifying genetic faults.
No bitch will be bred for commercial reason. All bitches will be bred with the intention of that particular breeding improving the breed.


1996 PEC COMMITTEE
Janet Van Wormer, Chairperson
Judith Bingham, Member




Gudi Molinari, Member

This pamphlet may be photocopied in its entirety.​

Prepared for the DPCA by the Public Education Committee. 1996 ​

_________________________________​

Original Source​

 

[DobieLvr]

I found this in Wikipedia about the white Doberman. I think the controversy came from the brother sister breedings... back in the 70's this was a really common breeding practice. A lot of us oldies that were around would remember this. I know several Doberman breeders that did this. I can't think of the dogs registered name, but the guy called his big red Doberman Bismarck and bred him to his full litter mate sister... this was just instance and I remember several from that era.

In 1976, a "white" Doberman Pinscher bitch was whelped,[3] and was subsequently bred to her son, who was also bred to his litter sisters. This tight inbreeding continued for some time to allow the breeders to "fix" the mutation, which has been widely marketed (beware of breeders selling their white Dobermans as "special" or "unique" for ridiculous prices). Doberman Pinschers of this color possess a mutation, which is called Leucism (also known as the "chinchilla" gene) which leave the coat and eye color pale,regardless of the genotypes of either of the two color genes. This gene is also shared with white tigers and white lions. Though some potential Doberman Pinscher owners find the color attractive, white Doberman Pinschers face increased risk of sun exposure due to pale fur and abnormal development of the retina.

 

[nc_dobemom]

I am always 100% honest with any buyer that contacts me beforehand but the presence of the WZ gene in my puppies and what this means.
I think breeders that lie about it or just avoid the subject are making a huge mistake and it will bite them in the butt in the long run.

 

[nc_dobemom]

I found this in Wikipedia about the white Doberman. I think the controversy came from the brother sister breedings... back in the 70's this was a really common breeding practice. A lot of us oldies that were around would remember this. I know several Doberman breeders that did this. I can't think of the dogs registered name, but the guy called his big red Doberman Bismarck and bred him to his full litter mate sister... this was just instance and I remember several from that era.

In 1976, a "white" Doberman Pinscher bitch was whelped,[3] and was subsequently bred to her son, who was also bred to his litter sisters. This tight inbreeding continued for some time to allow the breeders to "fix" the mutation, which has been widely marketed (beware of breeders selling their white Dobermans as "special" or "unique" for ridiculous prices). Doberman Pinschers of this color possess a mutation, which is called Leucism (also known as the "chinchilla" gene) which leave the coat and eye color pale,regardless of the genotypes of either of the two color genes. This gene is also shared with white tigers and white lions. Though some potential Doberman Pinscher owners find the color attractive, white Doberman Pinschers face increased risk of sun exposure due to pale fur and abnormal development of the retina.

I've been looking into Leucism and it does sound a lot like the characteristics of the white Dobermans. But people are still wanting to coin them as "partial albinos".
IMO you either are an albino or you aren't.

 

[Faber]

I sure wish I had my first Dobie's papers, then I could prove his lineage. My only disappointment when I was considering him was that his mom was a blue. I did not like the look of a blue Dobie, and was fearful that he would throw them. Fortunately, I can't remember him ever throwing a litter with a blue. But anyway, he was a beautiful Dobie, and I was fortunate to have him in my life. I have pictures of him and his grandfather, also named Warlock, who lived on a houseboat. I did not name mine after the Warlock heritage, and I simply called him Zak. And I never mentioned anything to do with size, but rather his lineage. I am going by his pedigree which went back over many generations. Back then we didn't have the convenience of a computer to keep records, so they were all done by hand.

Back in those times, it was recommended that you not buy from a breeder before the pup was at least 9 months old. Most reputable (at least that is what I was told) breeders raised the pups until they were of an age to where the buyer could tell what the demeanor and look of the pup would be. When I bought my first pup, the breeder did not allow me to take him home with me until he was 3 months and that was only then because I was local to them. I visited him weekly or more often until I could bring him home. I then had to return each week for the breeder to access his progress, check on his ear cropping, etc. When I started breeding him a few years later, I was quite picky about who he bred to and turned down many offers (I am sure he was not happy about me doing the "picking", I think he would have been happy to SERVICE them all!!)

Anyway, I came here to this forum out of concern when I learned that my pup is a "z factor" pup. Yes, I am disappointed but I still love him dearly. We have just started obedience lessons, and he is doing well. I am glad that I am now aware that he is a "z factor" pup, and will do my best to make better informed decisions about his future. In the interest of bettering the breed, I am considering neuturing him at this point.

I do agree with the person that stated that lately the markings and colorings of the breed is not as prominent as it once seemed to be. I notice a lot of Dobies with very little rust on their chests, and poorly defined markings on their faces. Even my pup has black markings on his toes, and way back when, that was a definite NO-NO.

I do thank ya'll for your time and information. Hopefully I have not offended anyone, and that we will all be friends in the fact that we all have passion for a great breed of dogs. I know that when I sit out back in the morning, having my Coca Cola and ciggie, and watch my beautiful pup play before we go off to work (yes, I take him with me each day), and I sit and look at him and I see the most awesome dog that has ever graced this earth, then I know I am proud to be owned by a Doberman!!!!

1.- you don't have to prove anything
2.- thank you for taking the time to study on your given situation
3.- you didn't offend anyone, and my guess is by your demineer- you won't
4.- as far as letting the z thing bother you or not- do your thing sister! you sound like a loving, wanting to learn, wanting to do whats best, great mommy.

Congratulations on your new boy!

 

[ChromeNun]

I found this in Wikipedia about the white Doberman. I think the controversy came from the brother sister breedings... back in the 70's this was a really common breeding practice. A lot of us oldies that were around would remember this. I know several Doberman breeders that did this. I can't think of the dogs registered name, but the guy called his big red Doberman Bismarck and bred him to his full litter mate sister... this was just instance and I remember several from that era.

In 1976, a "white" Doberman Pinscher bitch was whelped,[3] and was subsequently bred to her son, who was also bred to his litter sisters. This tight inbreeding continued for some time to allow the breeders to "fix" the mutation, which has been widely marketed (beware of breeders selling their white Dobermans as "special" or "unique" for ridiculous prices). Doberman Pinschers of this color possess a mutation, which is called Leucism (also known as the "chinchilla" gene) which leave the coat and eye color pale,regardless of the genotypes of either of the two color genes. This gene is also shared with white tigers and white lions. Though some potential Doberman Pinscher owners find the color attractive, white Doberman Pinschers face increased risk of sun exposure due to pale fur and abnormal development of the retina.

I always try to find out if there is any close relationship in the lineage...I am not fond of either cross breeding or line breeding...I think all breeding should be outside of the lineage...heck, look what happened in the UK with the Royalty!!! LOL!!!

Isn't it weird that cats will breed with their sister, mother, brother, whatever, and you hardly ever meet a CRAZY CAT...ok, there are some, but not as many as one would think. But as you go into the dog kingdom, it all becomes a different story.

I just want to make sure that I am doing the best for the Doberman breed, and for my pup...he has a wonderful disposition and temperment, but I am worried about the loss of what I consider great coloring...to me, a fine Dobie should have very sharp, clear markings that are not muddled with his other colors...I am worried that my pup's ears are not finely colored black like they should be....I mean his ears are black, but they have a slightly noticeable line of rust at the base of the back side of his ear...this is NOT how they should be...at least not in my opinion...and as such, I am rethinking that he should not be bred...he does have a great temperment and fine disposition, but his points are just not up to what I feel is QUALITY...

Or am I over analysing him??? I realize that he is not quite 10 months old, and I might be judging him on the way he looks as opposed to the way he acts...I wish I knew someone that was a breeder where I live so that I could talk with them...and get a more close up perspective of what breeding for quality is all about...

Maybe I just need to sleep on all of this and worry about it later, maybe tomorrow???

 

[nc_dobemom]

I always try to find out if there is any close relationship in the lineage...I am not fond of either cross breeding or line breeding...I think all breeding should be outside of the lineage...heck, look what happened in the UK with the Royalty!!! LOL!!!

Isn't it weird that cats will breed with their sister, mother, brother, whatever, and you hardly ever meet a CRAZY CAT...ok, there are some, but not as many as one would think. But as you go into the dog kingdom, it all becomes a different story.

I just want to make sure that I am doing the best for the Doberman breed, and for my pup...he has a wonderful disposition and temperment, but I am worried about the loss of what I consider great coloring...to me, a fine Dobie should have very sharp, clear markings that are not muddled with his other colors...I am worried that my pup's ears are not finely colored black like they should be....I mean his ears are black, but they have a slightly noticeable line of rust at the base of the back side of his ear...this is NOT how they should be...at least not in my opinion...and as such, I am rethinking that he should not be bred...he does have a great temperment and fine disposition, but his points are just not up to what I feel is QUALITY...

Or am I over analysing him??? I realize that he is not quite 10 months old, and I might be judging him on the way he looks as opposed to the way he acts...I wish I knew someone that was a breeder where I live so that I could talk with them...and get a more close up perspective of what breeding for quality is all about...

Maybe I just need to sleep on all of this and worry about it later, maybe tomorrow???

Do you have a picture of your boy?

 

[ChromeNun]

Yes, I have pics, but I can't get to them at home...They are from when he was younger...I will post them on here tomorrow when I am at work...

 

[ChromeNun]

This is a picture of Damien at 9 months.

 

[Faber]

awww......

 

[nc_dobemom]

This is a picture of Damien at 9 months.

He looks like a Doberman to me....lol
Marking colors can vary from one dog to another and different "lines" or families can have darker or lighter marking.

 

[ChromeNun]

Honey, I know he IS a Doberman, or else he wouldn't do the things he does!!!!

Let's see...hmmm, he sleeps in my bed...he whines like a wuzz when he doesn't get his way...sometimes he thinks he can intimidate me by barking!!!! LOL...yeah, right, that works!!!! He uses his paws like hands, and constantly grabs my arms to pet him...

When outside, he is the biggest clown!!! He will pick up a stick, a pine cone, anything and toss it in the air, and entertain himself for hours!!!! But, he wants to make sure I am watching!!!! We play soccer with a soccer ball together...but he won't let me have it!!!! He will fetch all day long (as long as it is something he is interested in), BUT he NEVER will bring it back!!!!

He lets me know when something doesn't seem quite right, by doing that low, low basal growl, that only I should hear, and standing very close to me, with his hackles raised, ears up, and then going out to check the situation...

He is only 9 months old, so he doesn't have it all "hands down", but he is doing pretty well for his age...and he's stubborn!!!! But we are both learning...

And after all these years, I am once again realizing why I fell in love with Dobies in the first place...NOTHING COMPARES!!!! Well, except CATS!!!!

 

[Miller Dobes]

I'll take a stab at this. My "opinion" on White (Albino) Dobermans, First let me say i love them especially the blue eyed Albinos. With that being said i could never in good conscience Support the practice of purposly breeding Albino Dobermans by purchasing an Albino or even Z factored puppy. However if the oppertunity ever arises and the timing was right i wouldnt hesitate to adopt or rescue one from a less then fortunate situation.

I really cant comment on the health issues since ive never personally owned one but i do know they are more prone to have significantly more problems then other Dobermans. Who by the way really have enough genitic health issues as it is.

Hopefully others will chime in on this one. I really think it makes for a good topic of discussioon.

V Doom

Exactly

 

[Michele]

Let's see...hmmm, he sleeps in my bed...he whines like a wuzz when he doesn't get his way...sometimes he thinks he can intimidate me by barking!!!! LOL...yeah, right, that works!!!! He uses his paws like hands, and constantly grabs my arms to pet him...

Hold on now, you could be describing a chihuahua too

 

[Miller Dobes]

Here's my take: some are pretty, some are doing well in performance events. I wouldn't hesitate adopting one from a rescue organization or shelter.

But they should not be bred. IMO there is no such thing as a well bred albino dobe - the very concept is just plain backwards.


JMHO.

I total agree with JMHO. I would like to see a well bred albino dobe. The ones I have seen have had messed up toplines, cowhocked,and basically not a working dog. I'd like to see a picture of one that had good confirmation.

Becky

 

[nc_dobemom]

I've seen some white Dobermans with nice conformation.
The problem with the white Dobermans now is that the gene pool is kind of limited which is why most breeders I know are branching out and breeding more non-wz dogs back into their programs.

 

[ChromeNun]

Hold on now, you could be describing a chihuahua too

LOL!!!! I'll bet you are a fan of the videos of Pablo and Ramsey!!!! I die laughing when I watch Pablo torment poor Ramsey...

I did forget to mention a few other things, like back up and sit on the sofa...leap up on anything to be TALLER than me!!!! Have ya ever noticed that Dobies only think they are as big as their head??? And that as long as they hide their head, they can't be seen!!!!

And why is it that since we started obedience lessons, he can do all the commands perfectly AT HOME, but as soon as we get to class, he makes us both look STUPID!!!! He ignores everything I try to get him to do, he whines and moans and howls (but he never does those things at home), and in general, just makes it look like he is TOTALLY untrainable....but then we get in the car, come home, and he gets the lesson completely within a minute or two...Next week, we have our MID TERM exam, and I am sure he and I will come in at the BOTTOM of the class...our only hope is that HELL WILL FREEZE and we will be the ONLY ones to show up!!!! Oh, well, such is life when you are owned by a Dobe....

 

[Michele]

And why is it that since we started obedience lessons, he can do all the commands perfectly AT HOME, but as soon as we get to class, he makes us both look STUPID!!!! He ignores everything I try to get him to do, he whines and moans and howls (but he never does those things at home), and in general, just makes it look like he is TOTALLY untrainable....but then we get in the car, come home, and he gets the lesson completely within a minute or two...Next week, we have our MID TERM exam, and I am sure he and I will come in at the BOTTOM of the class...our only hope is that HELL WILL FREEZE and we will be the ONLY ones to show up!!!!

...you my dear, have a dog with "selective hearing"...LOL.....

this is funny stuff

 

[Miller Dobes]

I have never seen a quality white doberman. Where are they?

I do, however, recognize they are dobermans and have no problem with them as rescues etc. I just don't understand why anyone would want to breed for this color, knowing the research. It perplexes me. If they have so many problems, why would anyone want to take on that battle or promote whites? I would like to know......why? Where is the research on the support of breeding whites? I have read the research on why they are inferior. I'd like to read the research on why one should breed whites and not from someone that is gaining financially from breeding them.

I'm asking these questions in all sincerity.

Becky




Becky