White dobermans

[Zeus19742008]

I am interested on how others feel about the white doberman. I am also interested to find out information on the health of white dobermans. Especially from people who have or do own them.

I am fairly new to the doberman breed (although I have been researching them for a number of years now). I have not quite firgured out where I stand on the whites. I do know that my Zeus is decended from the white because he does have the "z" in his registration number.

 

[FredC]

I'll take a stab at this. My "opinion" on White (Albino) Dobermans, First let me say i love them especially the blue eyed Albinos. With that being said i could never in good conscience Support the practice of purposly breeding Albino Dobermans by purchasing an Albino or even Z factored puppy. However if the oppertunity ever arises and the timing was right i wouldnt hesitate to adopt or rescue one from a less then fortunate situation.

I really cant comment on the health issues since ive never personally owned one but i do know they are more prone to have significantly more problems then other Dobermans. Who by the way really have enough genitic health issues as it is.

Hopefully others will chime in on this one. I really think it makes for a good topic of discussioon.

V Doom

 

[Zeus19742008]

Thanks for your reply. I personally wouldn't buy one either. I had Zeus neutered but I'd decided to do that before I found out about him being "z" factored. I didn't even know anything about the "z" until after I'd gotten Zeus. I'm hoping that he won't have any health issues from this line. I feel that he's already got a strike against him since he is blue.

 

[Bilclarie]

No I wouldn't buy one either but if I where to breed a litter and one arrived I would keep and neuter it and never breed from the parents again just incase, which IMO is the only way to breed the colour out, but there are greeders who breed specifically to get white Dobe's and then charge the earth for them as there rare!!!!!!!!!!!!!! which I find quite sad for our breed.


Bilclarie

 

[hrd2gt]

I agree with Doom, I think they are so exotic looking... but I hear that they have worse skin problems than blues and fawns. I have blue IG's that have skin issues and its just to much work. Thats why when I got my dobie, I wanted black... total normal color so I hopefully wont have to ever worry about skin issues.

 

[Dobejazz]

When I went to adopt Casper I also considered 2 white rescues both of them had a hard time in the sunlight both kept their eyes almost closed outside and they also need sunscreen because they will burn.

 

[DLS]

This is one thing about our Breed that I know very little about. I understand how a white Doberman can show up in our breed, but other than that I only 'know' what I have read about them.

If there is someone who has bred a White Doberman or owns one, I would appreciate it if you could join this site and educate us about them. The Good and the Bad. I promise that I will not 'bash' anyone, I just want to understand more about them. Truths, not Myths.

 

[dreamcatcher]

Its my understanding that the AKC also won't recognize a white doerman. And I 've also hearn they have problems in the sun.

 

[nc_dobemom]

Well let me be the first to jump in on this lol
I do not support the DPCA's Operation White Out.
Here's my take on the whites:
When I got my first Doberman almost 7 years ago I got on the Internet looking to find other Doberman people. In my quest for Doberman people I found a site about "albino" Dobermans. Wow I thought that's cool so I read the site. It was Ione Smith's albino site. I read the whole site and was pretty much disgusted that ANYONE would breed these dogs. But I knew there are two sides to every story so I went in search of these "albino" breeders. I found a club and joined. Not only were the people very nice and easy to get along with (they didn't care who my dog's breeder was or that she was Continental Kennel Club registered) but they told me honestly about their dogs.
I found out that these white Dobermans are just that....a white Doberman. Nothing more, nothing less.
I found out they are not more prone to any disorder or disease.
I found out many people in Florida, California, South Carolina, Texas, Georgia, many many different places have them and do not have problems with them getting sunburned.
Do they squint in sunlight? Some do but my brother's fawn APBT squints when its sunny outside and he has hazel eyes. Heck I have brown eyes and squint when its sunny outside lol
In the past 7 years I've personally met 5 white dobermans and not one had a bad temperament. They were all outgoing, loving, playful dogs.
Are there whites out there with bad temperaments? YES of course there are but it's not the norm.
I stand firm by the whites and their owners and breeders. The white gene is a mutation (I'll agree with that) but it's not the deleterious defect that immobilizes the dogs, which is what the anti-white/DCA wants people to think. I don't think there's been one confirmed case of deafness or blindness that can be absolutely contributed to a dog being this color. However, if you look at dogs that are merle you can say that color causes health problems.
I think that given an equal chance they can contribute much needed new blood to the breed.
Again this is my opinion and I know many will not agree with me, but I just can not discriminate against a Doberman because it is not the "right" color. I mean who's to say that white isn't the right color and all the others are the mutants? lol I know that's a little far fetched lol but I'm just saying nobody can accurately say what colors Herr Dobermann had in his litters.
Okay sorry I rambled but this is something I am passionate about....

Oh and dreamcatcher the AKC does recognize the white Doberman. they can not be shown in conformation but they are AKC registrable and can compete in all other events.

 

[ccanddid]

NC,
I couldn't have said it better. So many people just 'parrot' the misinformation that they have been fed, and they haven't even met a white Dobermann in person. Once I saw for myself, I knew that there had to be a whole lot of fear and ignorance driving that car!

 

[nc_dobemom]

I agree....
I would bet that most of the naysayers just haven't been around a quality bred white. One that is from a conscious breeder that takes pride in there dogs and puppies. The only experience they have is with dogs in rescue or shelters from god only knows what kind of background.
I can't wait for the day the DPCA opens their eyes and sees this color is not going away. We now have an African American president so I guess there is hope. :lol: :lol:

 

[LizM]

There is NO SUCH THING as a "quality bred white"!!!!! A white doberman is an ALBINO doberman. YOU KNOW THIS nc_dobemom!!!!

There is VERY GOOD REASON that the DPCA supports OPERATION WHITE OUT!!! I am additionally OUTRAGED that you even bring up "an African American president" in this thread. No analogy here!!!!

I CAUTION EVERYONE on this forum to do online research and understand that ALBINO dobermans, referred to as "white" dobermans ARE NOT GOOD for the doberman breed, and that the breeding of such is NOT ACCEPTABLE. For those in rescues and shelters, it is sad...but NO ONE -- this means you, nc_dobemom (aka KIA) should not continue to travel the internet looking for an opportunity to propogandize something that anyone who has this breed's best interest in mind knows is WRONG.


STOP!!!!!!

 

[LizM]

I realized re-reading my post that my last statement is not grammatically correct (my outrage and dismay affecting my typing).

NO ONE should encourage or support the breeding of ALBINO (aka "white" - a euphemism), which nc_dobemom has a history of doing (just check out other doberman forums on the internet).

Kia - you know very well what you are doing - the DPCA and the entire reputable doberman community knows it, too. STOP!!

 

[nc_dobemom]

Originally posted by LizM@Nov 9 2008, 06:09 PM
There is NO SUCH THING as a "quality bred white"!!!!! A white doberman is an ALBINO doberman. YOU KNOW THIS nc_dobemom!!!!

There is VERY GOOD REASON that the DPCA supports OPERATION WHITE OUT!!! I am additionally OUTRAGED that you even bring up "an African American president" in this thread. No analogy here!!!!

I CAUTION EVERYONE on this forum to do online research and understand that ALBINO dobermans, referred to as "white" dobermans ARE NOT GOOD for the doberman breed, and that the breeding of such is NOT ACCEPTABLE. For those in rescues and shelters, it is sad...but NO ONE -- this means you, nc_dobemom (aka KIA) should not continue to travel the internet looking for an opportunity to propogandize something that anyone who has this breed's best interest in mind knows is WRONG.


STOP!!!!!!

The post was my OPINION and I thought that differing opinions were allowed on this forum. I'm okay with the fact others may not agree with me or have a different opinion on the topic. All the anti-white supporters, etc are allowed to preach negative white Doberman things, can't I be allowed to rebuttal and tell my side???
The "first African American president" analogy was more so in fun....kind of a "well anything is possible."

 

[nc_dobemom]

Originally posted by LizM@Nov 9 2008, 06:36 PM
I realized re-reading my post that my last statement is not grammatically correct (my outrage and dismay affecting my typing).

NO ONE should encourage or support the breeding of ALBINO (aka "white" - a euphemism), which nc_dobemom has a history of doing (just check out other doberman forums on the internet).

Kia - you know very well what you are doing - the DPCA and the entire reputable doberman community knows it, too. STOP!!

WHAT AM I DOING????? I am just voicing MY OPINION on this subject.

I don't agree with what many say in negative about the white Dobermans but I'm not going to tell people to STOP saying it! It's their right to freedom of speech.

In the end everyone; breeder, owner, prospective buyer alike have to make THEIR own choice on what they believe and how they feel about the white Doberman.

I don't believe that white Dobermans are the sick nasty mutants people try to make them out to be and when I am asked about them I will voice my opinion.

 

[ccanddid]

I see nothing wrong with voicing thoughts, experiences and reasons that may drive the hatred for other colors (beit in humans or canines). Like NC said, (in my words) it appears that most of the American nation has evolved.
Evidently the Doberman peeps are struggling to catch up or stay where they are, however you view it. No amount of telling someone to 'stop it- stop it' will change these things or the fact that white breeders will keep on breeding. For that matter, colored dog Doberman breeders will continue to breed and do the perceived damage that they contribute to the breed. The purpose of discussion isn't to muffle NC's message just because it's from her point of view, the reason for sharing facts and ideas is to learn. And I agree with what was said earlier, that the mutation that began the white color coats is IMO NOT a deleterious genetic defect. I didn't see anywhere in the rules of this forum that said we could not discuss a black President elect. This recent occurance DOES have a lot to do with evolution, and how people overcome fear & ignorance. And so it really does IMO parallel the whole 'white-albino' issues being dealt with right now in the Doberman breed.
I'm sure in 40 years there will no longer be an issue, and the quite possibly the DPCA president will be a breeder of whites. I'd like to say, 'Don't stop- Don't Stop!'

 

[darkfaelin]

Instead of potentially becoming long-winded in a reply to this, I would like to direct you to a website I had created a couple years ago about all the research I have done and why I think they are not albino. The title says "Real Facts About White Dobermans" but that's only because it's a sort of rebuttal to Ione's site. There are a lot of theories and yes, there are facts but I make sure to differentiate from the two which is something that is not done on her site. Everything she has put on her site is meant to be perceived as facts which is simply not true.

The site is still in need of updating which I can't seem to find the time to do but I will get to it. You can find it here

 

[nc_dobemom]

There is not a Doberman forum on the whole world wide web that the topic of the white "albino" Doberman hasn't come up and created at least 10 pages about it.

People are going to have differing opinions on this and that is never going to change.

 

[LizM]

Originally posted by ccanddid@Nov 9 2008, 06:56 PM
I see nothing wrong with voicing thoughts, experiences and reasons that may drive the hatred for other colors (beit in humans or canines). Like NC said, (in my words) it appears that most of the American nation has evolved.
  Evidently the Doberman peeps are struggling to catch up or stay where they are, however you view it. No amount of telling someone to 'stop it- stop it' will change these things or the fact that white breeders will keep on breeding. For that matter, colored dog Doberman breeders will continue to breed and do the perceived damage that they contribute to the breed. The purpose of discussion isn't to muffle NC's message just because it's from her point of view, the reason for sharing facts and ideas is to learn. And I agree with what was said earlier, that the mutation that began the white color coats is IMO NOT a deleterious genetic defect. I didn't see anywhere in the rules of this forum that said we could not discuss a black President elect. This recent occurance DOES have a lot to do with evolution, and how people overcome fear & ignorance. And so it really does IMO parallel the whole 'white-albino' issues being dealt with right now in the Doberman breed.
I'm sure in 40 years there will no longer be an issue, and the quite possibly the DPCA president will be a breeder of whites. I'd like to say, 'Don't stop- Don't Stop!'

This is NOT about color (canine or human) or hatred or about muffling someone's "opinion". It is about RECESSIVE gene characteristics and the cumulative decades of research done by reputable, responsible breeders who are looking to improve the Doberman breed.

Our vets were involved in the RESEARCH and breeding project done by the DPCA, and "opinion" has nothing to do with the ultimate decision for OPERATION WHITE OUT. It was based on long term genetic and scientific studies and direct experience with the deleterious effects of breeding with the Z factor.

Those of you with albino ("white") dobermans - I wish you the best of luck with the inevitable health issues that are potential in your dobes. I implore you to spay and neuter to prevent the perpeutation of the Z factor -- for the GOOD of the Doberman breed.

This is my last post on this forum - I will not participate in a forum that brings into question decades of study on the part of the DPCA regarding albino dobermans.

 

[darkfaelin]

I would also like to add (because I haven't put it up in my website yet) that I did have a white for about a year and a half. I got Megan from a breeder at 7 or 8 weeks (I don't remember anymore) for free with the intention of putting titles on her which would have included Schutzhund (yes they can gain titles in Schutzhund), obedience and agility but my financial situation fell after acquiring her so it wasn't really possible. Though I am fully capable of training a dog in obedience myself, I took her to classes for the socialization when she was 6 months since I couldn't afford to when she was younger so she already had some training by then. She was the most well behaved dog there which I'm sure is due to the fact that the others dogs haven't had any previous training. I taught her in German because I was still determined to do Schutzhund when I could afford to take her. The closest club I found was a three hour drive which I wasn't particularly thrilled with but I'd do it. I did minor stuff with her at home. She was naturally protective and was always on the alert when I walked her at night which had nothing to do with her, I'm just a night person mostly We walked day and night.

She got along with people, kids, other dogs (that got along with her), my cat. I had three other dogs at the time. Hershey and two Corgis. Megan never squinted in the sun and she never sunburned though I was actually surprised about both seeing as how I have blue eyes and squint (my left eye is especially bad but that's because I don't have a lens in that eye and my pupil can't adjust because part of my iris was cut out as a child due to having a cataract) and I do sunburn easy. Being a white short-coated dog I figured she would but she never did and she loved being out in the sun. I would like to point out that white Boxers are prone to sunburn and therefore melanomas (as said on a pro white Boxer site) and they aren't albino. Any white short-coated dog is prone to sunburn as a matter of fact so that logically can't be used as proof that white Dobermans are albino. Obviously not all whites are photosensitive (squint in the sun) so those that do can't be used either because ALL albinos, regardless of type are photosensitive. There are no exceptions.

I took her out to my boyfriend's brother's on 4th of July, at the time she was 5 months I believe. They set off fireworks and stuff and she didn't pay them any notice (and no she wasn't deaf), even the big fireworks from the city didn't phase her one bit. We were pretty close to them and they were loud, too loud for my ears but she didn't care. I kept her leashed since they were playing with fireworks and it was a good thing I did because some of them she wanted to chase. During the puppy testing I conducted when I went to pick her up, I opened an umbrella in the middle of the room and she didn't run away. She just sort of was surprised and then went to go investigate it.

Sometime after she turned one year of age my male Corgi began fighting with her to the point that he'd make her bleed. No amount of behavior modification I did was correcting it and after 6 months I decided one of them was going to have to go. I reluctantly chose Megan and sometimes I wish I didn't. In some ways I'm glad as that means I'm no longer tied with the breeder and though she did give me a puppy and even paid for half her ear crop, I will no longer stand up for her.

If I was able to get another one I wouldn't hesitate but it will have to wait.