Urinary Incontinence?

[jazzies mum]

I do think the problem is worse for some large breed dogs, especially Dobies. Jazz was spayed very young and developed incontinence within two months. Probably less. Not sure why my vet didn't warn me of the possibility.

 

[MyBuddy]

Ok, let's try a different route

Is there anyone here that spayed their Doberman and DIDN'T get incontinence??

 

[Ravenbird]

Is there anyone here that spayed their Doberman and DIDN'T get incontinence??

Yes. My post (#27) on this thread.

@Ddski have you found success with meds/supplements for Freyja?

 

[MyBuddy]

My other two Dobermans (one born early 1980's and the other born 1991) were both spayed (my '91 girl I spayed after her first heat, less than a year old, the other was an unclaimed found dog and estimated 18 months old when I got her and spayed her right away) and they never had it. I worked at a vet clinic in the '80's and don't recall any SI in the couple of years I was there with any dogs. The only incontenance issues I recall were very old dogs. Doesn't mean it wasn't there but I don't recall it at all. And it was in the era where we pushed hard for spay & neuter by 6 months of age, and it was also the time when Dobermans were very popular, so we saw lots of them. The other vet assistant had 3 Dobes.

That is interesting. I wonder if something changed with the procedure since the '80s and '90s?

Anyone more recent have a spayed female with no issues or incontinence?

 

[Ddski5]

Yes. My post (#27) on this thread.

@Ddski have you found success with meds/supplements for Freyja?

I tried the Incurin- Estrogen supplement and it gave her hot flashes and caused her to swell. It did work for a bit but then it stopped.

I tried corn silk and other natural remedies. Did not work and gave her orange cow patty poop.

Started with Pronin 75mg 2x day and it immediately started working. I see zero side effects and will continue with this. Prob been on this for almost 2months.

I did a considerable amount of research on this- FB, other Doberman websites, general internet…and it seems to me 7/10 female Dobermans I read about have urinary incontinence. A lot of the old Doberman pros who had/have 5 or more Dobermans in their life said it was common in their experience. Maybe it’s because the only people posting have problems and questions about it- probably so.

Sometimes Incurin or other estrogen supplements work.
Sometimes corn silk works.
Mostly all the times Pronin works.
Sometimes one works for a while and then stops and the next med does work.
Sometimes something works for a while and stops so they start another med and that works for a while and then stops and then they use both the estrogen supplement and Pronin and that works.

It’s just all over the board really. I am glad I found something to work because Freyja was embarrassed and just down about it. You could see her mood get depressed. I even bit the bullet and used pull ups for two weeks. I didn’t really want to start new meds because of the ill effects of the Incurin but pull ups are not the same to Freyja. She knew it, tolerated it but did not like it at all. You could tell that she knew.

All is well now, hope Pronin continues on working…cross that bridge whenever we need to.

 

[Ddski5]

I am not quite sure how the surgical procedure could have changed to increase the risk of SI occurrence…
But I cant help but to think the one thing that possibly has considerably changed is the content and quality of dog food.

I would like to see a comparison/inquiry of SI Dobermans eating Raw vs dry kibble.

Wonder what kind of food @Ravenbird fed back in the day??

@Kaiser2016 is around a lot of Dobermans in Canada….do you hear of this up there?

 

[Ddski5]

Thread 'Loki thirsty all the time, incontinent'

Feb 20, 2021

Hi all,
Loki has become very thirsty about a week ago. Female, spayed, 5 yrs old.
She has always liked water, eats it when we are at a river or lake, stream, puddle.
Go to bed about 10ish, she would wake us about 4:30-6:00am to go out.

Now she wakes us about every two hours to get a drink, we do not let her drink until we get up. When let out, she barely pees to come in and get a drink, then go out again to empty her bladder.

When at the vet, I took her out to potty 2 times because she was leaking. Two hour time period.

The vet checked blood and urine, all good. Maybe very early...

• WMBigs
• Replies: 26
• Forum: Doberman Health Issues and Questions

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This is an interesting read- diabetes insipidus.

The differentiating factor here compared to Freyja is that Loki drank alot of water and asked to go outside a lot. Freyja did not drink an abnormal amount of water and would just start dripping continuously.

 

[JanS]

@GennyB if I remember right, you had the OSS done on Rumor? Did she develop the spay incontinence?

 

[Ravenbird]

I am not quite sure how the surgical procedure could have changed to increase the risk of SI occurrence…
But I cant help but to think the one thing that possibly has considerably changed is the content and quality of dog food.

I would like to see a comparison/inquiry of SI Dobermans eating Raw vs dry kibble.

Wonder what kind of food @Ravenbird fed back in the day??

@Kaiser2016 is around a lot of Dobermans in Canada….do you hear of this up there?

Good questions, I can't imagine the surgery has changed either. I assisted in lots of spays and it was quite simple. I would be interested to know if any changes have been made. I know on two websites of Doberman breeders who listed COD on their dogs, I've seen twice now "complications after spay". Kinda freaked me out. I know there's always a sh!t happens category, but it just seems so strange.
So in speaking of changes over 40 years in our breed, because again, if it tends in 4 or 5 breeds, but not in 100's of others it points at genetic differences. Do they have estrogen profiles that are different? Since estrogen supplements are the go-to cure, that's where I'd start. And what are commonalities with Dobes and the other medium/large breeds where this is an issue?

My '80's dog died about 2 years after I got her as an adult, but was never incontinent. I don't recall what kind of kibble I fed but I was pretty much a starving college student at the time so it was probably Purina or a generic brand. And it was kibble,
My 90's dog was raised on Eukanuba - it was pretty new and supposed to be the best. So she was on it probably most of her life. And again, kibble, no raw, very few treats, very little people food or scraps from the table. She did eat poop if I wasn't watching: horse, cow, rabbit, deer, cat - ANY kind of poop except dog poop, LOL. She lived to be 11 and she was spayed after her first heat and before her first birthday, never incontinent. In fact I can't recall her going to the vet except to be spayed and once to get a foxtail (grass awn) out of her nostril.

 

[Ravenbird]

OSS done on Rumor? Did she develop the spay incontinence?

Seems like I remember a thread saying she'd not do that option again, but I can't recall why. Or I might be thinking of someone else.

 

[JanS]

Seems like I remember a thread saying she'd not do that option again, but I can't recall why. Or I might be thinking of someone else.

That rings a bell with me too but I can't remember for sure.

 

[JanS]

Oh I found it.

Thread 'Is OSS right for your dog?'

Jun 28, 2021

So many decisions to make on just what is right for your dog. Now we have added another.... Is ovary sparing spay right for your dog? We went this route because of our experience with Greta, a spayed way too young girl we had before Rumor. We rescued her at about 9 months and she had been spayed long before that. She developed incontinence by 2 and it became a nightmare as she aged. I swore I would never do that again.
We wanted to leave Rumor intact well past maturity and perhaps always. Unfortunately she was a pretty heavy bleeder so we looked into OSS. The info available to us at the...

• GennyB
• Replies: 10
• Forum: Doberman Health Issues and Questions

• 
• 

 

[Kaiser2016]

It does seem to be a problem up here too and nearly everyone I know that has females or males, they do wait until 18 months or 2 years before spaying. There is only one female I'm aware of that didn't have it and she was spayed at 4 or 5 years old because she started to produce milk after one heat, otherwise, they weren't planning to spay her. Oh, and she was raw fed. The diet is an interesting angle!

 

[BGpa]

I've found Elizabeth Barretts info on dobes to be particularly useful. See her youtube on dobe UTI first before jumping to the jr vets diagnosis and recommendations on pyo...before spaying before two years, for example.

 

[GennyB]

@GennyB if I remember right, you had the OSS done on Rumor? Did she develop the spay incontinence?

No incontinence issuses whats so ever.
Just my experience to spay or neuter is such an individual decision. There is no single answer that is right for every single dog.
Seems there are side effects that go with whatever you decide. I guess it comes down to the lesser of the evils.

 

[JanS]

I guess it comes down to the lesser of the evils.

And that's so true of everything in life.

 

[Ravenbird]

No incontinence issuses whats so ever.

And there shouldn't be since OSS leaves all the hormones working - I'm glad you answered because it would open a can of questions if she had developed incontinence with no disturbance of her estrogen.

 

[GennyB]

And there shouldn't be since OSS leaves all the hormones working - I'm glad you answered because it would open a can of questions if she had developed incontinence with no disturbance of her estrogen.

She did end up having her ovaries removed in 2022? I believe. Between trying to schedule her holters and echos and all the coyotes that came smelling around I caved and had them removed. Regrets? NOPE! I feel like I did what I could.

 

[GennyB]

Seems like I remember a thread saying she'd not do that option again, but I can't recall why. Or I might be thinking of someone else.

I may try the oss option again. I still believe it is a good option most of the time. The biggest problem we had was she still had cycles that made cardio testing challenging. Add to that we moved to the country and had coyotes circling during her cycles that just drove me nuts! We are now 2 years post spay and no incontinence.

 

[BGpa]

Yes. My post (#27) on this thread.

@Ddski have you found success with meds/supplements for Freyja?

Yes, at 13 months due diagnosed open pyo.
I'd have waited to two years but vet recc swayed us.
Turned out not to be so, so it was the simpler procedure.
So far at 22 months, no problems.