Why does a heat cycle affect cardio testing?
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Urinary Incontinence?
- Thread starter Ddski5
- Start date
This is how it was explained to me....
A dog's heat cycle can affect cardiac testing because of the cyclical changes in estrogen and progesterone levels that occur during different phases of the cycle. These changes can impact: Blood and plasma volume, Cardiac activity, Electrocardiographic pattern, and Reproductive organ weight.
Rits
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I've heard the same thing. Also thyroid issues can affect cardiac results.
Kswoodssue
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Sasha was 2 last January. She was spayed at 18 months old. No incontinence.
YAY! Thank you! That's good news!
Okay, allow me to put a kink in everything. 
I was talking to my neighbor next door (with the Bullmastiff) about this incontinence. She actually went to school in Mexico, where she was born, to be a doctor. She told me a long time ago that when she moved to the states she said would have to go through her schooling all over again to be a doctor here. So she passed. She is now married to a dentist and she has been his assistant for 20 plus years. So she has quite a bit of medical background too.
When I brought this up and told her how we were discussing how odd it was that Dobermans seem to have the problem more than other breeds, she disagreed. It's not the breed. She says it's how they do the spay. She said if they are in a hurry or they're not careful how they manipulate everything, that can happen. She thinks it's how they handle the internal organs between the bladder and the uterus.
Now, some of you may disagree. I'm just telling you what she told me and I found it very interesting.
I told her it's amazing how much more complicated females are, human or otherwise. And she said the uterus is good for two reasons. Reproduction and problems! And I totally agree! LOL
I'm going to be looking into having a visit with the Vet that will do Annie's spay and tack and see his views on incontinence.
I was talking to my neighbor next door (with the Bullmastiff) about this incontinence. She actually went to school in Mexico, where she was born, to be a doctor. She told me a long time ago that when she moved to the states she said would have to go through her schooling all over again to be a doctor here. So she passed. She is now married to a dentist and she has been his assistant for 20 plus years. So she has quite a bit of medical background too.
When I brought this up and told her how we were discussing how odd it was that Dobermans seem to have the problem more than other breeds, she disagreed. It's not the breed. She says it's how they do the spay. She said if they are in a hurry or they're not careful how they manipulate everything, that can happen. She thinks it's how they handle the internal organs between the bladder and the uterus.
Now, some of you may disagree. I'm just telling you what she told me and I found it very interesting.
I told her it's amazing how much more complicated females are, human or otherwise. And she said the uterus is good for two reasons. Reproduction and problems! And I totally agree! LOL
I'm going to be looking into having a visit with the Vet that will do Annie's spay and tack and see his views on incontinence.
LOL, reminds me of a quote I heard from a rancher years ago: If it's got testicles or tires it will cause problems. (cattle & horses is what he was referring to).
I had a collie in the 90's, spayed at 4 -6 mons and 3 - 5 years old is when the incontinence started. We were told that it was hormones and I don't remember much more.
Different collie -- in late 2000's -- spayed around the same age, along with an umbilical hernia repair. No incontinence, even at 13.
That's so frustrating to me to not have answers. I hope that this surgeon will have some good input.
It makes zero sense to me how it can be more prevalent in Dobermans and not in other breeds…the surgical procedure is the same for all. And as far as that goes, same food options, same environments, etc…That's so frustrating to me to not have answers. I hope that this surgeon will have some good input.
I need some kind of an answer that makes it possibly logical.
UPDATE
We had our appointment yesterday for a counsel with the vet that is going to do Annie's spay and tack.
My impression of him was good. He's been doing this for 22 years and he seemed knowledgeable and open-minded. He said he was surprised that we actually came in. He said a lot of people do this over the phone. I said well, I just felt more comfortable being in person and he was fine with that. No charge either.
When he asked me what my concerns were I started off with questions about the operation itself and mainly what his opinions were about the age to do a spay, and also what he thought about keeping dogs intact. He mentioned what we've all talked about, that times have changed. He said they used to spay as young as 5 months old. Now a year, a year and a half is the norm. And it's more the age than how many heat cycles they've been through. Years ago I remember them saying to do it before the first heat. Then others would say let them go through at least one heat cycle.
Now I think it's more about growth plates.
So bottom line for Annie he said to wait at least a year. Maybe a year and a half. Since she will be a year in March he said you can possibly look at June or thereafter. He said the incisions are relatively small for both procedures. And a week to 10 days down time.
And then I brought up incontinence. I watched his face when I mentioned it and he actually looked confused. I kind of took that as a good sign! I mean he knows that some dogs can get that but he said that he hasn't seen it a lot. I mentioned our board and how we found that dobermans seem to be afflicted with this more than others. He didn't seem to agree. He feels it's hit or miss. But he said the same thing that my own vet said... they don’t see a lot of Dobermans anymore. But he did happen to have a Doberman in the back recuperating from a spay that morning. He said they used to be very popular years ago. Not so much now. My own personal vet told me he hasn't seen a purebred Doberman in maybe 10 years or more! So is it possible that not having a lot of Dobermans as a patient that he's just not seeing the incontinence problem? I don't know. But this vet last night clearly did not have a thought that Dobermans are more prone to incontinence.
He mentioned the medication proin I believe? I know it sounded familiar and I should have written down all the meds that you guys have tried so I can discuss it with him. He said they used to give estrogen but now they give that Proin instead. But he made it sound like you have to give like three pills a day or something! It didn't seem right to me but I figured we'd cross that bridge if we get there.
The only thing he did think might bring on incontinence is when they're spayed too early. But even saying that it didn't sound like he saw a lot of dogs with incontinence. He said he's had huskies and Akitas and even one of them was sprayed very young like 4 months old and she never had a problem.
.
I did ask him about what my neighbor next door said about manipulating the organs somehow damages something and again, he gave me a confused look like no, never heard of that. He said some people will want to just remove the ovaries but he said it's still like keeping them intact. They still go through a heat cycle, still attract male dogs. They just can't get pregnant.
And he said there can be lots of problems with leaving them intact also.
So I left there kind of feeling like I didn't get any clear answer on the incontinence. The only take away that I got was to spay her around a year, year and a half. And as far as the incontinence I guess I'm just going to have to cross my fingers.
I checked with the receptionist to see how far he is booked and it seems that we should call for an appointment about 2 months ahead. So I'll keep that in mind for next spring.
Sorry I didn't have any more definitive answers. It definitely was a bit of a let down on the incontinence front. But I feel confident with him doing the spay and tack. (Although we all know I'll be a nervous wreck!) He's done a million of them and he talked about the importance of doing the tack. He said they can still bloat but if you can prevent the twist it's always a good thing. I agree.
We had our appointment yesterday for a counsel with the vet that is going to do Annie's spay and tack.
My impression of him was good. He's been doing this for 22 years and he seemed knowledgeable and open-minded. He said he was surprised that we actually came in. He said a lot of people do this over the phone. I said well, I just felt more comfortable being in person and he was fine with that. No charge either.
When he asked me what my concerns were I started off with questions about the operation itself and mainly what his opinions were about the age to do a spay, and also what he thought about keeping dogs intact. He mentioned what we've all talked about, that times have changed. He said they used to spay as young as 5 months old. Now a year, a year and a half is the norm. And it's more the age than how many heat cycles they've been through. Years ago I remember them saying to do it before the first heat. Then others would say let them go through at least one heat cycle.
Now I think it's more about growth plates.So bottom line for Annie he said to wait at least a year. Maybe a year and a half. Since she will be a year in March he said you can possibly look at June or thereafter. He said the incisions are relatively small for both procedures. And a week to 10 days down time.
And then I brought up incontinence. I watched his face when I mentioned it and he actually looked confused. I kind of took that as a good sign! I mean he knows that some dogs can get that but he said that he hasn't seen it a lot. I mentioned our board and how we found that dobermans seem to be afflicted with this more than others. He didn't seem to agree. He feels it's hit or miss. But he said the same thing that my own vet said... they don’t see a lot of Dobermans anymore. But he did happen to have a Doberman in the back recuperating from a spay that morning. He said they used to be very popular years ago. Not so much now. My own personal vet told me he hasn't seen a purebred Doberman in maybe 10 years or more! So is it possible that not having a lot of Dobermans as a patient that he's just not seeing the incontinence problem? I don't know. But this vet last night clearly did not have a thought that Dobermans are more prone to incontinence.
He mentioned the medication proin I believe? I know it sounded familiar and I should have written down all the meds that you guys have tried so I can discuss it with him. He said they used to give estrogen but now they give that Proin instead. But he made it sound like you have to give like three pills a day or something! It didn't seem right to me but I figured we'd cross that bridge if we get there.
The only thing he did think might bring on incontinence is when they're spayed too early. But even saying that it didn't sound like he saw a lot of dogs with incontinence. He said he's had huskies and Akitas and even one of them was sprayed very young like 4 months old and she never had a problem.
.I did ask him about what my neighbor next door said about manipulating the organs somehow damages something and again, he gave me a confused look like no, never heard of that. He said some people will want to just remove the ovaries but he said it's still like keeping them intact. They still go through a heat cycle, still attract male dogs. They just can't get pregnant.
And he said there can be lots of problems with leaving them intact also.
So I left there kind of feeling like I didn't get any clear answer on the incontinence. The only take away that I got was to spay her around a year, year and a half. And as far as the incontinence I guess I'm just going to have to cross my fingers.
I checked with the receptionist to see how far he is booked and it seems that we should call for an appointment about 2 months ahead. So I'll keep that in mind for next spring.
Sorry I didn't have any more definitive answers. It definitely was a bit of a let down on the incontinence front. But I feel confident with him doing the spay and tack. (Although we all know I'll be a nervous wreck!) He's done a million of them and he talked about the importance of doing the tack. He said they can still bloat but if you can prevent the twist it's always a good thing. I agree.
All vets have differing opinions and our vet is totally on board to wait two years for these larger breeds. It's in the breeders contract to keep them intact until they're two as well. Olive is due for her next cycle at the end of January or first part of February so I'm kicking around leaving her intact until at least after our July show but before her next cycle.
Well his recommendation was at least one year. So two years will be fine.
At least you don't have a male in the house so that makes it easier. Elroy turns into an idiot. LOL
Oh yeah. I'm glad I don't have to deal with that. I just have to worry about the boy next door.
But we've already talked about it and we both will be diligent and staying away from each other during that time. 
And he is always on leash.
To be honest…same as me. I went in and asked all the questions and vet was like- it’s really not an issue.
One can only choose the best for their household and hope for the best.
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