Trained response for indicating a find

Ravenbird

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From a previous thread, @Ddski5 asked about a sit or a down to indicate finding a hide rather than the dog choosing its own way of telling you. Without going into the pros and cons with this method for sports scent work, here is how I trained to down for human scent articles. Since Asha is already familiar with the clicker = reward is coming, and also knows that if I act remotely like we are training something, if she doesn't know what we're doing she will offer a behavior that has worked before. So she looked around, saw a wad of paper on the floor that I put there (I've never trained on a paper wad before) and she just put her nose on it/downed and I clicked an gave food. I'm using dry kibble here, nothing high value. If she put her nose close to it click/treat. If she just downed but didn't have her face pointed at the target, I'd shuffle my feet or walk around until she realized the down wasn't everything I wanted. So at this stage, just LOOKING at the target gets click/treat. Ideally it should be between the front legs and her looking at it, but in the beginning reward looking at it, nose touch, then ask for duration of looking, then ask for a down, then ask for more duration. I toss kibble away from the target to make her re-set and make the right decision. If she didn't know this already, I would keep letting her stay over the target and reward her for staying on it. At her level I want her to choose to go to it, tell me that she thinks it's this OBJECT, not the down that's causing the paycheck. A few times she offered just a down while ignoring the paper wad. Choose whatever target you want to teach them to find. Once they know the response, move to a bigger space and put it out of sight, but not hidden so they have a short search before downing on it. Have a special word to begin pairing with this "Find it" is what most people use. This is a simple thing to teach, they usually learn the basics in a day or two. IF you want to trial in Scent Work, please find an online teacher or better yet a local class. Using a trained response for odor would be similar but you need to get that info from a pro. This is just for a fun demo if you want to play at home. Undoing behaviors is harder than training them, so think about your future goals. This could be done for showing off dog tricks to friends. Use car keys or a wallet. They'll be impressed. Spend a few days a week doing this and in a month your dog can find your keys in the yard. FUN is what we're having!


 
@Dasz88 - I'd love to hear your thoughts on this since you know more than anyone here about teaching your dog to indicate a find. I think anyone in law enforcement has to have a trained response?

If you can add anything that would be fun for folks to play with at home for their dogs enrichment please feel free to add suggestions.
 
I forgot to say the sound has to be up to hear the clicker so you can see what I'm marking. Also that I don't ever say anything is on purpose. The dog uses their brain and trial & error to work the puzzle. If she gets stuck (just offering a down without pointing at the target) I will walk around to distract her, but never point at the target. Also I used a down because initially this was going to be for tracking where the dog downs when they come across an article, but also a down is easier to prevent "breaking" away.

When teaching it to your dog for the first time and they don't have a clue what you're wanting, if they just walk close to the target, even by accident, click/treat. It may be several accidents walking close or just sniffing it, like what's this doing here? - click/treat. It doesn't take long and they will be all over it.

Again, this is not how I taught nose work for sport. I taught hunt for food, then paired food with odor, then odor only and let her indicate in her own way that she found the hide and "where's my paycheck?", while setting up hides in trial-like scenarios (containers, buried, interior & exteriors, and vehicles - even though AKC doesn't have a vehicles venue, they can be used!
 
I have no plans to change Ashas indication in scent work trials, but I am trying to get her to stay closer to the hide and "show me" just a little longer where the hide is, so in this video I'm "loading" the hide. Loading is a term of rapid fire click/treat for the right response. I won't do this often, and to be clear, I didn't use clicker training when I taught scent work to her, just "yes" when she found it. In this video, the hide is in the upsidedown little table. When I release her you can tell she's in hunt mode with a mission, the harness is her indicator that we are hunting odor and nothing else. When she finds it she indicates in her usual manner (stop, head-swing, look at me) I mark and reward then ask her for repeat indications to "load" the response with lots of treats. I moved to change her position to the camera so you could see the tail wag as she "points". She simply loves this game!

 
I somehow missed this whole thread! But I want to come back to it with more when I have time! In SAR, we call it a TFR, or trained final response. Gilly's is a sit. I actually had to realllllly work hard on getting the sit and we are still working at it. Because he would prefer to touch it with his paw. But in a crime scene, we can't have a dog with an 'active' TFR, it must be passive. A me ber of.ym team actially had the opportunity to go down to the body farm in KY, but couldn't because her dog has an active TFR, not a passive one.
 
I somehow missed this whole thread! But I want to come back to it with more when I have time! In SAR, we call it a TFR, or trained final response. Gilly's is a sit. I actually had to realllllly work hard on getting the sit and we are still working at it. Because he would prefer to touch it with his paw. But in a crime scene, we can't have a dog with an 'active' TFR, it must be passive. A me ber of.ym team actially had the opportunity to go down to the body farm in KY, but couldn't because her dog has an active TFR, not a passive one.
I'd love to hear more input when you have time/get a chance. Life is full for you and Gilly, I know!
 
but I am trying to get her to stay closer to the hide and "show me" just a little longer where the hide is, so in this video I'm "loading" the hide.
What are you using for the 'hide'? Did she know not to actually pick it up with her mouth?
 
What are you using for the 'hide'? Did she know not to actually pick it up with her mouth?
This is for nose work - she's indicating an odor, not an object. In the real world it would be like drugs or explosives or human remains. For sports it's specific kinds of essential oils: anise, clove, birch & cypress. So nothing to pick up. It's a drop on a q-tip enclosed in a tiny container with holes to let the odor out.
 
It's a drop on a q-tip enclosed in a tiny container with holes to let the odor out.
Ah! Ok. So how would one choose a scent? I mean you can't just use one scent one day and a different one another day, could you? I would think that would be confusing. But then how do you know which one to choose to start training?

And how do you train them to find your personal scent? I mean, everything in the house would have your scent on it.

I hope you don't mind all my questions. I'm just very curious about all this. Not that I'll start doing a bunch of training scent training :rolleyes: but it is interesting to me.
 
Ah! Ok. So how would one choose a scent? I mean you can't just use one scent one day and a different one another day, could you? I would think that would be confusing. But then how do you know which one to choose to start training?
AKC scent work calls for the 4 I listed. There are other scent trial venues, but for explanations I'll keep it with AKC rules. Novice they find only one odor and it's birch, so most dogs train on that first. Advanced is two odors, Excellent is 3 odors and Masters is all 4, But once the dog figures out that certain unique odors are what we're looking for, they rarely need to be specifically trained on each odor separately. I trained alongside Reckless who was already training on 4 odors and after we knew birch, I would have her hunt the same hides as Reckless (all the odors) and Asha found them. The best analogy I've seen on this is that if we walk into the house and smell spaghetti sauce cooking, dogs smell tomato sauce, onion, garlic, basil etc. Some trainers actually start out using a "cocktail" of all the odors: one hide using a q-tip from each odor (spaghetti sauce so to speak). Human scented articles I taught completely separate and did teach a final response (a down) for it. For SAR it needs to be any human scent and for AKC "handler discrimination" the dog picks out your odor from a selection of articles with other peoples odor. I chose not to trial in that because I was working at RH-SAR at the time and I needed Asha to work all human scented articles, not my scent. So that was a sport/trial decision.

And how do you train them to find your personal scent? I mean, everything in the house would have your scent on it.
True! I started out with tracking articles - 1" x 3" pieces of wood, leather and wool. All of those are porous and hold odor easily. I put them in my jeans pocket while I did other things - at least 15 minutes. Then I first taught Asha to indicate by downing on them like the video above on the paper wad where they are not hidden. Then I took them outside and placed them on the dirt or grass where she had to use her nose rather than eyesight. I also used different equipment & command for human scent than essential oils scent. The only time Asha ever wears a nylon harness is for Scent Work (essential oils) and the command is "sook", German for search. For human articles odor she wears a regular collar and the the command is "Articles!". When I taught her to find a hidden person she wore a reflective collar with a bell for RH-SAR work and her command was "Search!"

I hope you don't mind all my questions. I'm just very curious about all this. Not that I'll start doing a bunch of training scent training :rolleyes: but it is interesting to me.
I can talk nose work all day long so questions are fun for me. If you don't want to trial, you can teach you dog to find anything you choose as long as it's a unique thing that can't be confused with other stuff and you keep it simple to start out.
 
Remy’s response is similar to Asha’s. He picked up on it quickly! As soon as he finds it he looks up at me, waiting for the treat.

We are only on the second week of the class. This week the dog is supposed to stay with their nose in the hide for a few seconds. I’m assuming this is so they don’t do a false alert. So far we are struggling with this. He’ll put his nose in once he finds it, pop his head up to look at me, then if I don’t reward he’ll start offering other behaviors like a down. It says to just wait to reward until he puts his nose back in, but it’s not working so far lol.
 
Remy’s response is similar to Asha’s. He picked up on it quickly! As soon as he finds it he looks up at me, waiting for the treat.

We are only on the second week of the class. This week the dog is supposed to stay with their nose in the hide for a few seconds. I’m assuming this is so they don’t do a false alert. So far we are struggling with this. He’ll put his nose in once he finds it, pop his head up to look at me, then if I don’t reward he’ll start offering other behaviors like a down. It says to just wait to reward until he puts his nose back in, but it’s not working so far lol.
I was hoping you pop in with how your class is going! Every dog is different so just know that he's smart, a fast learner and he will figure it out. You have a really good instructor and I'm sure she'll be more helpful than I am! Get those basics down tight, it's so tempting to let these dogs go fast, then they get stuck later. Any time you get stuck as you climb the ladder you go back to basics, so get the basics done right! Hope to hear more from you on this!
 
I find it all really interesting too. I'm the chair at our clubs spring rally/nosework show and you better bet I'm going to be over on the nosework side most of the time since rally gets long and boring as a spectator.
@Katyusharocket , you should try to come up for that. Sisu Dog Sporting Club of Northern Minnesota | United Kennel Club (UKC)

Our club is going to hold a nosework workshop later this spring and I think I might give that a try with Olive since she seems to pick up on that stuff faster.
 
I was hoping you pop in with how your class is going! Every dog is different so just know that he's smart, a fast learner and he will figure it out. You have a really good instructor and I'm sure she'll be more helpful than I am! Get those basics down tight, it's so tempting to let these dogs go fast, then they get stuck later. Any time you get stuck as you climb the ladder you go back to basics, so get the basics done right! Hope to hear more from you on this!
The class is going good so far! When you look at the lectures for the week it can make it seem a little slow paced, but I know how important it is to have a strong foundation! On the first week he picked up on it immediately, but I still trained the same thing for two more days to really ingrain in into him lol.

I was thinking of making a thread to share updates on our training. If I remember to take them I can post some videos too!
 
@Ravenbird

I tried to find the appropriate post you made with the cones and Asha but couldn’t find. Just letting you know that your videos and education do not go on deaf ears! I am wanting to teach her left and right direction hand signals.

I finally got around to working with Freyja and she did well for her first session. Kept it fun, and didn’t go too long either- just enough to make mistakes and then have success and stopped.

As you can see in the pict, I started off making mistakes. With her back towards me at left side heel- working on sending her to the right around the cone.
1. The hose distracted her.
2. I picked the hose up and then she went for the balls beyond the cone…haha. She picked the ball up and said what?? No treat for this?? I laughed and commented to myself how dumb am I..
3. I should have known better and had a clean distraction/object free yard to present a clear picture of what I was asking.

Took four tries and she was going around the right cone and coming to sit directly in front facing me. Was successful 3x in a row so I stopped and played ball with her.

IMG_1636.webp
 

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