Toddler/puppy dynamic

[StateOfMine]

I wish he would just entertain himself haha. If he's in his crate and doesn't want to be he will cry and cry and cry. He's very vocal. Which isn't terrible but it's not ideal at 2 or 3am when he spends 30 minutes whining. Our house is small and sound travels easily. His whines easily wake up my daughter. It's made for a "moody" couple weeks in the house with a lack of sleep. I've spent the last 3 years running on broken sleep so I can handle it, but my daughter and husband don't do so well.

Do you have any insight on how long this rebellious whining will last at night?

I give Flint his kong in his crate and only ever in his crate. His kong has either peanut butter or pumpkin in it. I got him used to the idea that kong in crate = sleepy time. I would let him see/smell what was in it, say "crate" and lure him like a fish to his crate. He didn't get the kong until he was all of the way in, and once he was in and eating the treat inside, I dropped a blanket around it so he couldn't see anymore, turned off the lights and left the room. No words after.

Flint I'll admit was very easy in the crate day 1 and only whined for about 30 seconds at most at first. Credit might go to the breeder here, honestly. She made the rules very clear for everyone very early. Still, my mom did the same thing with our lab pup minus the sheet and after about two weeks the lab pup began to understand that the kong = sleep. Period. Just gotta be firm and ride out the irritating crying together unfortunately. Don't let him win.

 

[Doubletroublemomma]

My older brother was the easiest baby out of my mom's 5 children. He slept well, ate well, rarely cried...

Then I came along and my mom said I gave her the most intense morning sickness, I screamed for hours just because and I hated sleep (I still do). I was her most difficult baby and I'm #2. It's me, I'm the demon. I paid back her efforts ten fold when I hit my teens. I followed the rules, I didn't do any of the foolish things most teens do (my older brother was a damn fool), and I was mom #2 to my 3 younger brothers that came after me while she went to nursing school. I made sure to be a positive influence on my younger siblings and they followed in my foot steps, no foolish behaviors like my older brother at all.

My point is, the difficult children, or pups too, turn out to be awesome if you put the time and effort into them. Be patient, be consistent, and keep reminding yourself that the effort you put in now will pay you back ten fold later. I had a lab pup before my current doberman, Flint, and she was much more headstrong than him (so far, as he only just turned 6 months). As an adult, that lab was the smartest and most fearless creature I've ever seen. She chased off strange dogs from our property and away from my brothers more than once, including a rott/shepherd mix. She also chased off a feral hog and several foxes from our chickens, probably saved my brothers' lives more times than I know. She was seriously like Old Yeller, but jet black and small for her breed.

She was well loved and will be missed dearly.

Flint so far feels mild to me, though my husband was taken aback by the biting and nipping at first. The redirect strategy works great for Flint and I've rarely had a problem with him ignoring toys and preferring to mouth us. When he has, we dropped the toys and walked away. Game over. The one time he insisted on being a bitey little butthead after that, he was given a swift correction with a sideways pop on the collar, a firm "NO!" and he was taken outside away from us for a few minutes. That was the worst for him. He loves being with us. I haven't had any persistent biting since.

I have noticed he's getting sneakier in his doberteens and he's pushing boundaries again, so I'll keep everyone updated on how things go.

I'm definitely ready to put in the work. I know he's not going to be an easy guy. My husband on the other hand is feeling overwhelmed with the puppy and our toddler. But he's been working away for 2 years and isn't entirely used to toddler antics.

I wish a firm "NO" was enough for Ekko. But that just seems to get him going even more haha. It's like telling a toddler not to do something, you know damn well they're going to do the opposite of what you ask.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

I wish he would just entertain himself haha. If he's in his crate and doesn't want to be he will cry and cry and cry. He's very vocal. Which isn't terrible but it's not ideal at 2 or 3am when he spends 30 minutes whining. Our house is small and sound travels easily. His whines easily wake up my daughter. It's made for a "moody" couple weeks in the house with a lack of sleep. I've spent the last 3 years running on broken sleep so I can handle it, but my daughter and husband don't do so well.

Do you have any insight on how long this rebellious whining will last at night?

If you're doing things pretty correctly (and it sounds like you are doing well) then most likely it will clear up in a couple months or so. Hard to say.

I don't mean to scare you, but with my previous Dobe, a certain amount of crate vocalization lasted his whole life. I'm not talking constant, no. It largely depended on factors that affected his satisfaction. But then, this was a Dobe that peed and pooped his crate all the time for the first several months of his life. He had separation anxiety – but thank God not to the level of absolutely trying to destroy his crate to escape. The crate destruction was fairly slow and drawn out over years. I patched the crate with sheet metal in several spots.

But boy do I know what it's like for the dog's carrying on to be audible throughout the entire house! That was a real problem!! For one thing, the HVAC ducts carry the sound. One of the most direct sound-carrying routes was into our daughters' two rooms. The most direct sound blast route through the HVAC ducts from the crate in the basement was into the front room where often after putting him in his crate so I could leave the house I'd be bending over to put on my socks and shoes and he'd blast his barking and noise right up into my ears, the little bastard.

 

[Doubletroublemomma]

If you're doing things pretty correctly (and it sounds like you are doing well) then most likely it will clear up in a couple months or so. Hard to say.

I don't mean to scare you, but with my previous Dobe, a certain amount of crate vocalization lasted his whole life. I'm not talking constant, no. It largely depended on factors that affected his satisfaction. But then, this was a Dobe that peed and pooped his crate all the time for the first several months of his life. He had separation anxiety – but thank God not to the level of absolutely trying to destroy his crate to escape. The crate destruction was fairly slow and drawn out over years. I patched the crate with sheet metal in several spots.

But boy do I know what it's like for the dog's carrying on to be audible throughout the entire house! That was a real problem!! For one thing, the HVAC ducts carry the sound. One of the most direct sound-carrying routes was into our daughters' two rooms. The most direct sound blast route through the HVAC ducts from the crate in the basement was into the front room where often after putting him in his crate so I could leave the house I'd be bending over to put on my socks and shoes and he'd blast his barking and noise right up into my ears, the little bastard.

Honestly this guy is absolutely throwing us for a loop. Our first is as quiet as a mouse, no nipping, as passive as they come.

We're fortunate that Ekko is potty training well and has only had 1 crate accident, and that was because he spent his first few hours alone.

How old are your daughters? What was their relationship like (if you had the Dobie as a puppy around them).

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Honestly this guy is absolutely throwing us for a loop. Our first is as quiet as a mouse, no nipping, as passive as they come.

We're fortunate that Ekko is potty training well and has only had 1 crate accident, and that was because he spent his first few hours alone.

How old are your daughters? What was their relationship like (if you had the Dobie as a puppy around them).

Girls are almost 13 yrs, and almost 5 yrs. Yes, we had them concurrent with a puppy. More on that soon

 

[Doubletroublemomma]

Girls are almost 13 yrs, and almost 5 yrs. Yes, we had them concurrent with a puppy. More on that soon

I appreciate any insight on that. After being gone for nearly 2 years, my husband is feeling overwhelmed with how taxing this puppy/toddler relationship is. He's seriously second guessing our decision as this lil guy is NUTS.

 

[Ddski5]

Honestly this guy is absolutely throwing us for a loop. Our first is as quiet as a mouse, no nipping, as passive as they come.

We're fortunate that Ekko is potty training well and has only had 1 crate accident, and that was because he spent his first few hours alone.

How old are your daughters? What was their relationship like (if you had the Dobie as a puppy around them).

What’s the history/lineage of this pup?
What breeder did you get him from?
You may have gotten a jacked up working line Doberman rather than a calm docile Lassie (if there is such a Doberman)….

 

[Doubletroublemomma]

What’s the history/lineage of this pup?
What breeder did you get him from?
You may have gotten a jacked up working line Doberman rather than a calm docile Lassie (if there is such a Doberman)….

He's from a family style breeder. She's spent the past 15 years breeding min-pins and has recently done 2 litters with her personal Dobes. We met her and the parents and the dad was so relaxed. The parents and both litters were socialized right from the get go and very familiar with small children.

 

[Ravenbird]

What’s the history/lineage of this pup?

It seems to me that most of the people here with problem-child puppies have either European show/pet lines or working lines which are different but still euro based.

recently done 2 litters with her personal Dobes. We met her and the parents and the dad was so relaxed. The parents and both litters were socialized right from the get go and very familiar with small children.

If you have his AKC registration we can tell you if his lines are European based or American show/pet lines. It's not good or bad, but the Euros tend to be tougher-to-raise puppies, more willful, more vocal, more demanding. No matter what, all the info above is still in play.

 

[Cferg]

My daughter was eight 3 years ago when we got Stassi. And they really didn’t have unsupervised time together till last year. And really it’s only been the last six months where I feel comfortable with them doing excitable to the dog activities like swimming, bike riding, or playing with balls and such without me being there. Up until that point my daughter alone in the backyard riding her bike with the dog. Would’ve resulted in the dog getting over stimulated and biting the s*** out of her.

 

[Ddski5]

He's from a family style breeder. She's spent the past 15 years breeding min-pins and has recently done 2 litters with her personal Dobes. We met her and the parents and the dad was so relaxed. The parents and both litters were socialized right from the get go and very familiar with small children.

Hmmm…
No disrespect here, but if this is the case and he came from “relaxed” lineage, then you need to get on it, set firm boundaries and be consistent with them. He is a puppy and being overly rambunctious- running over you. Get control now or he will develop into a crack head. He will be big before you know it and be much stronger.

Don’t mean to scare you..just trying to emphasize that you have to get control and be consistent/persistent with the rules of the house.

 

[Doubletroublemomma]

My daughter was eight 3 years ago when we got Stassi. And they really didn’t have unsupervised time together till last year. And really it’s only been the last six months where I feel comfortable with them doing excitable to the dog activities like swimming, bike riding, or playing with balls and such without me being there. Up until that point my daughter alone in the backyard riding her bike with the dog. Would’ve resulted in the dog getting over stimulated and biting the s*** out of her

Hmmm…
No disrespect here, but if this is the case and he came from “relaxed” lineage, then you need to get on it, set firm boundaries and be consistent with them. He is a puppy and being overly rambunctious- running over you. Get control now or he will develop into a crack head. He will be big before you know it and be much stronger.

Don’t mean to scare you..just trying to emphasize that you have to get control and be consistent/persistent with the rules of the house.

No disrespect taken! I completely agree.

I have full faith that I can train him into a "good boy". Maybe not as heaven sent as my older one, but I do see good potential in him. He's just a little sh*t head right now. I'm noticing small changes already though. I implemented the leash thing today, and have focused more on hand feeding him for good behavior and it's helping. I'm noticing he's a lot more focused on me rather than other distractions such as my daughter.

I've gotten some great advice from this thread and have full intention of using it to the best of my ability. I just wish he would sleep a little more at night now

 

[Ddski5]

He is not a failed cause by far…just needs more attention and order to his world. My first Doberman was a monster and I leash tied him to the couch for some peace- big mistake. That asshat drug the full size couch around the living room and just laughed at me. He required constant order and I had to be persistent that he did not cheat on any rules or expectations. It took a lot of work but we developed a bond and trust that was just amazing. I miss old Ragnar everyday and cherish the work and lessons he taught me.

My second Doberman, Freyja, is easy peasy…much much more calmer than Ragnar and always looking to please. She does not require the order and consistency that Ragnar required.

 

[Doubletroublemomma]

He is not a failed cause by far…just needs more attention and order to his world. My first Doberman was a monster and I leash tied him to the couch for some peace- big mistake. That asshat drug the full size couch around the living room and just laughed at me. He required constant order and I had to be persistent that he did not cheat on any rules or expectations. It took a lot of work but we developed a bond and trust that was just amazing. I miss old Ragnar everyday and cherish the work and lessons he taught me.

My second Doberman, Freyja, is easy peasy…much much more calmer than Ragnar and always looking to please. She does not require the order and consistency that Ragnar required.

I really hope I can create that bond with Ekko. Odin started off as my husband's dog, but quickly became a mommas boy. So much so he sleeps under the covers with me every night he can

I could 100% see Ekko pulling a stunt like that. He's testy. The biggest hurdle we didn't foresee, which is a complete error on our part, was how hard it would be with a 3 year old. Odin had blinders on us. We thought we'd get another angel. Boooyyyy were we wrong haha.

On a side note, my neighbor had 2 dobies, both of which he lost in the past year to cancer. But we were talking and he's planning on getting a female in the new year, he wants to name her Freya.

 

[Ddski5]

I just wish he would sleep a little more at night now

One major mistake I made with Ragnar was I did not teach him how to “turn off”. Being my first Doberman ever, my thinking at night was to play tug with him and wear him down to tire him out and sleep. I was warned by the members here- but didn’t quite understand that I was only strengthening his resolve and stamina. Later on, as he aged, he was very difficult to settle down and turn off. My 2nd, Freyja, turns on/off like a switch.

When he gets jacked up and you want him to settle…leash him to you and go sit in a chair. When he is acting like a demon, pay no mind/attention to him. When he finally settles and calms down, give him a treat and mark it with a pronounced “Yesss”. Every time he does something good- treat with that pronounced “Yesss”. This becomes a wonderful verbal marker.

 

[Doubletroublemomma]

One major mistake I made with Ragnar was I did not teach him how to “turn off”. Being my first Doberman ever, my thinking at night was to play tug with him and wear him down to tire him out and sleep. I was warned by the members here- but didn’t quite understand that I was only strengthening his resolve and stamina. Later on, as he aged, he was very difficult to settle down and turn off. My 2nd, Freyja, turns on/off like a switch.

When he gets jacked up and you want him to settle…leash him to you and go sit in a chair. When he is acting like a demon, pay no mind/attention to him. When he finally settles and calms down, give him a treat and mark it with a pronounced “Yesss”. Every time he does something good- treat with that pronounced “Yesss”. This becomes a wonderful verbal marker.

That's a really good point. Something I didn't think of. I had the same thinking as you with Ragnar then, tire him out so he sleeps. I will have to work on the on/off aspect.

 

[Ddski5]

As much as I would want to include my 3 yr old daughter (I have three daughters btw), I would recommend not allowing her to act independently around him. Everything would be completely controlled and supervised. Two reasons- one for her safety and she will not completely understand the necessity of order and structure for him. Secondly, I would not give him any chance to loose his bearing, his control. He needs to be ingrained, patterned what is appropriate and acceptable. If he is able to cut loose and act rambunctiously stupid, all the time under his control…then the ingrained pattern is broken and not being cemented.

Mind you, you are not being so damn hard and disciplined as in Army Ranger training. He is still a crazy fun puppy that is learning and exploring. You must still play, have fun, running with him engaging in joy and laughter but at your whim, your control. All good things come from you- including food and toy time.

It takes a lot of work, time and attention but I promise you…it will be 110% worth it!!

 

[Doubletroublemomma]

As much as I would want to include my 3 yr old daughter (I have three daughters btw), I would recommend not allowing her to act independently around him. Everything would be completely controlled and supervised. Two reasons- one for her safety and she will not completely understand the necessity of order and structure for him. Secondly, I would not give him any chance to loose his bearing, his control. He needs to be ingrained, patterned what is appropriate and acceptable. If he is able to cut loose and act rambunctiously stupid, all the time under his control…then the ingrained pattern is broken and not being cemented.

Mind you, you are not being so damn hard and disciplined as in Army Ranger training. He is still a crazy fun puppy that is learning and exploring. You must still play, have fun, running with him engaging in joy and laughter but at your whim, your control. All good things come from you- including food and toy time.

It takes a lot of work, time and attention but I promise you…it will be 110% worth it!!

Couldn't agree more. This is the mindset we have. It's tough because she so badly wants to be involved and doesn't understand that when she goes nuts, he wants to play too. She's tiny too, which makes her even more appealing I'm sure. I'm trying to find ways to keep her involved so she doesn't feel like moms ignoring her for this new puppy. I don't want to have 2 children acting out for attention haha. We do lots of small sessions throughout the day with "sit, stay and shake a paw" and my daughter loves it. Today I had Odin, Ekko and my daughter all lined up to "shake a paw" it was hilarious and she absolutely loved it.

 

[Doubletroublemomma]

As much as I would want to include my 3 yr old daughter (I have three daughters btw), I would recommend not allowing her to act independently around him. Everything would be completely controlled and supervised. Two reasons- one for her safety and she will not completely understand the necessity of order and structure for him. Secondly, I would not give him any chance to loose his bearing, his control. He needs to be ingrained, patterned what is appropriate and acceptable. If he is able to cut loose and act rambunctiously stupid, all the time under his control…then the ingrained pattern is broken and not being cemented.

Mind you, you are not being so damn hard and disciplined as in Army Ranger training. He is still a crazy fun puppy that is learning and exploring. You must still play, have fun, running with him engaging in joy and laughter but at your whim, your control. All good things come from you- including food and toy time.

It takes a lot of work, time and attention but I promise you…it will be 110% worth it!!

I should add, she's been super involved with Odin for the past year. Her task everyday is giving him his meals (he waits for my command to eat, he won't take anything from her hand or even his bowl if she puts it there, he always looks at me for the ok) and she takes so much pride in that. It's her "big girl" job and if she so much as hears kibble hitting his bowl she's on my heels telling me it's her job. I know she just wants a connection like that to Ekko, but doesn't understand that he's still unhinged lol.

 

[Ddski5]

Wow…great job Momma!! That’s exactly how to engage your 3yr old with him. I can see the little one beaming with pride to do her job.
Sounds like you get it, you just needed some reassurance and guidance on where to go with this guy. You have yourself a true 100% Dobershark!