The ongoing adventures of Thorongil

Actually, speaking of today's issues... I am starting to try and get him better at loose leash walking. The trainer at puppy class told me if he starts to pull, just turn around and go the other way. I tried this today. Turned around soooo many times I legit made myself motion sick lol! So this ootion might not work for us! What else do you guys do to encourage loose leash walking? He will stay pinned at my side if I have a treat in my hand but as soon as he eats it, he wants to barrel on ahead (Even if more treats are forthcoming).
 
What else do you guys do to encourage loose leash walking?
Teach leash pressure. He applies pressure, stop in your tracks. The moment he gives any, absolutely any sort of slack, mark "yes!" And reward at your person. He will learn pulling gets him nowhere, letting off pressure is more rewarding, and the rewards are near you so naturally he will be coming into you more and more and eventually staying at your side which you can also reward for with your reward/treat hand treating directly down from your hip. My girl could feel the slightest bit of pressure on the collar and would expectantly turn around for a treat!

This will take a lot of small sessions. Building a good foundation takes a lot of time, repetition and reinforcing. You obviously won't get anywhere like this for some time so when you do need to actually WALK, either prong collar such as for going to the vet, or train for a short 2-3 min session then release him with a release word to go sniff as reward. When I was teaching loose leash I would take my girl out on her prong, her flat collar, and harness. Prong to get from the parking lot to the trail safely. Flat collar to begin training leash pressure for short sessions. Then switched the leash to harness and used a release word such as "free" to go sniff after a successful training session. Rinse and repeat 😁 Sometimes the reward would be a tug. Sometimes treats. The variety keeps them guessing!
 
Teach leash pressure. He applies pressure, stop in your tracks. The moment he gives any, absolutely any sort of slack, mark "yes!" And reward at your person. He will learn pulling gets him nowhere, letting off pressure is more rewarding, and the rewards are near you so naturally he will be coming into you more and more and eventually staying at your side which you can also reward for with your reward/treat hand treating directly down from your hip. My girl could feel the slightest bit of pressure on the collar and would expectantly turn around for a treat!

This will take a lot of small sessions. Building a good foundation takes a lot of time, repetition and reinforcing. You obviously won't get anywhere like this for some time so when you do need to actually WALK, either prong collar such as for going to the vet, or train for a short 2-3 min session then release him with a release word to go sniff as reward. When I was teaching loose leash I would take my girl out on her prong, her flat collar, and harness. Prong to get from the parking lot to the trail safely. Flat collar to begin training leash pressure for short sessions. Then switched the leash to harness and used a release word such as "free" to go sniff after a successful training session. Rinse and repeat 😁 Sometimes the reward would be a tug. Sometimes treats. The variety keeps them guessing
Thank you Rits!! I tried this today! And we didn't get very far, down my driveway and to my neighbors driveway and home in like 15 min lol! BUT I think (maybe?) Baby Gilly is starting to understand the idea of not pulling, whereas before he had no clue. We have a loooooot of practice ahead of us lol!
 
The trainer at puppy class told me if he starts to pull, just turn around and go the other way. I tried this today. Turned around soooo many times I legit made myself motion sick lol! So this ootion might not work for us!
It didn't work for me, but my teacher was a PP and said turn around and stand with leash taught until the dog turns to go the direction your facing. One time Asha literally just laid down and chewed on a stick while I had a snug pull facing the other way. She leans on a collar to this day if given half a chance or anything of interest. I've just recently learned what the working dog people do to get all that focus and want to be at heel, and it's no leash at all. Make the best place (with food) be in Basic position, then start walking one step, then 3 with them focused on you. A leash means nothing to them. Dave Kroyer videos, all you can watch for $10 / month, you can go for one month or forever. Wish I'd known this 2 years ago!
 
BUT I think (maybe?) Baby Gilly is starting to understand the idea of not pulling, whereas before he had no clue. We have a loooooot of practice ahead of us lol!
You can call his name when he gives slack and then I would run backwards, encouraging him to come to you for the treat. Movement can build drive and eagerness to work for you!

You are very welcome! I missed that he is under 6 months so I would hold off on the prong just a little longer until he has an understanding of what he is supposed to do on leash. Can't punish a baby for not knowing better! It's a lot of work but it'll be worth it in the end. A lot of practice ahead is exciting and will build such a great bond between you two. ☺️
 
Make the best place (with food) be in Basic position
Leash pressure training is basically doing this without the rigidness of a focused heel; teaching them the best place to be is with you by rewarding them for coming into you and then rewarding them at basic position. I realize not everyone wants or needs competition heeling with their dogs so I recommend the leash pressure training. It allows people to still be able to walk their dogs on a loose leash. They come into you every time and eventually won't want to leave your side or apply pressure at all because treats come from Mom's hip!

I too did the turn around thing, ugh...and then Ripley got big and I thought she was going to tear my arm off. 😖 I moved onto leash pressure and that really worked great for us and still does to this day. We moved onto one step, two steps as she became a teenager; I will be doing this sooner with my next puppy as I want to compete. Now I'm solidifying basic position in all scenarios, but again, I also want to compete. Asking for a long duration focused heel during an hour walk isn't really natural so the leash pressure training helps allow them to be "free" but not pull. The prong reinforces all that has been learned when you need to get from point A to B but don't want to lose any ground on all that work.

Training to heel never ends really! It must always be reinforced. I 100% agree with @Ravenbird suggestion at one step two step nd finding an online course to guide you if you are interested in having a beautiful tighter heel when needed.
 
Totally agree with you @Rits. And I realized that one can do the same steps for Basic without the hard core focus. I personally don't like the "upside-down prancing/almost sitting" between each step, it's not for me. But I am really enthused over the idea of working it without a leash and making it fun with food and spins etc. I didn't want to argue with my teacher, but seriously Asha learned to lean on the leash using that method. On an easy-going dog, I'm sure it would be fine, but not a hard headed Doberman puppy!

@Dasz88 - there are LOTS of ways to train, a million methods out there, but the learning curve is biggest their first year, and what they learn in that first year is hard to un-learn. Don't be afraid to make mistakes, we all do! But be aware, that when something isn't working, or starting to backfire on you, stop and regroup - or ask here like you just did to get some other opinions. I found that many non-Dobe trainers don't have a clue what we're dealing with. :rofl:
 
Thank you guys so, so much!! We are starting to see glimmers of the awesome, focused, heeling boy he will SOMEDAY be lol. He actually heels pretty well now off leash (assuming I have treats in my hand! 🤣). Otherwise, heck no lol. Using different leashes has been helpful, too. I think he understands that they have different purposes.

We still have an issue, especially when playtime first starts, where he wants to sneak up and nip my butt or socks or sleeves. Working on that... progress is less impressive on this front 🤣.

I think baby Gilly is super eager to do any sort of affirmative task. But not to do a negative thing. Like, that sounds weird and probably doesn't make sense. But if I ask him to DO something, he always does it. If I ask him to STOP something, he is... less eager. 🤣 So, trying to figure that out right now lol!
 

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Using different leashes has been helpful, too. I think he understands that they have different purposes.
Leashes or collars? My dog knows different collars, but leashes mean nothing to her. Fur-saver, prong = obedience training which always means food & toys for rewards. e-collar means going on a hike or getting to go somewhere in the car. Harness = nose work. Any time I have ANY of these in my hand to put on her she goes wild, spinning & barking.
But if I ask him to DO something, he always does it. If I ask him to STOP something, he is... less eager.
Pretty normal, I think. I'd need to look back to see how old he is. This will probably get worse as he enters his teenage period. My girls middle name was "make me" until about 1 1/2 year old. :rofl: Keep up with obedience so you can defer to that when he won't stop something. Once he knows down you can tell him to down (and make him if he won't, because he knows this command) to stop him from doing unwanted behavior. It was the hardest command to teach my puppy because she was so dominant and being down is a submissive position.
 
But if I ask him to DO something, he always does it. If I ask him to STOP something, he is... less eager. 🤣
Something I try to remind myself when it comes to training dogs. It's always easier to reward and reinforce the good behaviors that you do want than it is to correct the bad behaviors. If you teach them what you do want, while it may take a little longer to get there, in the end it will get you a lot further in life than constantly correcting what you don't want. It doesn't mean you never correct the undesirable behaviors, but to me that means there's a weakness in my training and I need to find out how to get her to give me the desirable behavior and capture/reward it when given so I may only then need to correct once or twice in a blue moon long term!
 
What she doesn't know, though, and I didn't volunteer is that Gilly is so good because I literally train him every single waking hour of the day. I have no choice. He would combust from repressed tornado puppy energy if I didn't. (He is not a couch potato lol!).
And this is why you are going to have a highly trained obedient Doberman.

You may not see it now or may even think (sometimes) none of this shat is working….but keep it up, stay on course and one day it will come together. You will absolutely beam with pride from the success of all the hard work put in. Also, the personalized training from you builds the unbreakable bond between you two.

Keep doing what you are doing with loose leash and leash pressure….it will provide a rock solid foundation for when you are ready to begin the prong and ECollar. The prong and ECollar take it to an entire different level but you must build the foundation first.
 
If you teach them what you do want, while it may take a little longer to get there, in the end it will get you a lot further in life than constantly correcting what you don't want.
And I found this is especially the case with Dobes! When I finally found that a quick obedience session, (which we had made fun and she thought it was a game), would immediately change something I didn't want to something I could reward. Win/win. This was the ONLY way I could stop young Jazz from getting the zoomies and "clipping" me on the flyby. She still gets the zoomies and is free to zip to her hearts content providing she gives me a little space.
 
Aaahhh baby Gil is 4.5 months and craaaAAAAaaazy!! He gets flirt pole games, 1 offleash walk (aka run around in the woods like a lunatic), 1 on leash walk (aka mom tries desperately to keep him from running like a lunatic), Jolly ball games in the yard, free range time in the yard, training commands so many times a day, food only through training or puzzle games (which lie and say they're supposed to entertain him for much longer than they do because he is so smart), and HE STILL ISN'T TIRED 🤣

Some questions:

1. I know we can't run with a puppy because of their growth plates. BUT I do a little 1.5 mile loop walking with him in my woods and he's offleash (leashed on a long lead). Can I jog?? He basically is sprinting back and forth the entire "walk" we do every day anyways. I'd stop if he couldn't keep up but our offleash walk is basically him running around like a lunatic anyways, so I don't see what is bad about me jogging? 🤷 It's on very soft (and currently muddy) trails, and it's not like I'm forcing him to run along beside me on the road at a high speed. It just seems silly that I can't jog when he's bouncing all over anyways lol.

2. Fast cat? I know gilly is still a baby, and can't run seriously. But my dog training club has a fast cat event coming up, and there is a "fun run" portion of it. Can he just do the fun run? We have a flirt pole so I know he LOVES to chase a lure.

3. Gilly loves my daughter and wants to nom her face as an expression of love. I think he is actually just being a normal 4.5 month old dobershark, as he is really trying hard to bite less. However, when the 4 year old sprints past or gets down on the floor or shrieks for no reason, she is basically just trying to get jumped on.🤦‍♀️
 
I'd stop if he couldn't keep up but our offleash walk is basically him running around like a lunatic anyways, so I don't see what is bad about me jogging?
I pretty much agree that it's about the same difference, but at this age and especially off leash he may get in the habit of running after you and jumping on you - because this really looks like an invite to play, not to run along your side. Which could turn into nipping or knocking you down or at the very least just a bad habit. Personally I'd wait until he's older just so he can separate play time with jogging. Also the more exercise he gets the fitter he gets and the more work it takes to get him tired. Try some nose work for mental work outs.

The intro to Fast Cat with puppies should be fine as long as the lure operator doesn't go too far with it. Before I got my puppy I saw this at a Fast Cat and most of the puppies were very hard to coax into going very far or very fast, but they weren't prey-drive types anyway. Since Gil may chase the lure and be pretty fast, they just need to know to keep it short & sweet and not keep going.

# 3 doesn't have a question, but I'll put in my 2 cents. These dogs can play rough. A four year old should be old enough to grasp some rules around the puppy: No running, no shrieking, no teasing. A dog that can easily go into prey drive and will soon be 70 - 80 lbs needs no encouragement to play rough. Even if it's just in play, they can hit like a baseball bat (where was that recent picture of Bri with her black eye?). You don't want your kid to have a bad experience with the puppy at a young age. Have your child take part in teaching Gil to sit while he waits for his food bowl to be put down. They can both learn together about good manners and why it's important for the dog to have self control.
 
Teach leash pressure. He applies pressure, stop in your tracks. The moment he gives any, absolutely any sort of slack, mark "yes!" And reward at your person. He will learn pulling gets him nowhere, letting off pressure is more rewarding, and the rewards are near you so naturally he will be coming into you more and more and eventually staying at your side which you can also reward for with your reward/treat hand treating directly down from your hip. My girl could feel the slightest bit of pressure on the collar and would expectantly turn around for a treat!

This will take a lot of small sessions. Building a good foundation takes a lot of time, repetition and reinforcing. You obviously won't get anywhere like this for some time so when you do need to actually WALK, either prong collar such as for going to the vet, or train for a short 2-3 min session then release him with a release word to go sniff as reward. When I was teaching loose leash I would take my girl out on her prong, her flat collar, and harness. Prong to get from the parking lot to the trail safely. Flat collar to begin training leash pressure for short sessions. Then switched the leash to harness and used a release word such as "free" to go sniff after a successful training session. Rinse and repeat 😁 Sometimes the reward would be a tug. Sometimes treats. The variety keeps them guessing!
Would it be okay to have a prong collar at his age? I've been diagnosed the stopping method until he loosens and comes back k, and it's KINDA working but I also need to actually MOVE sometime. Is prong okay at his age? Or if not, is there another intermediate stage between plain flat collar and prong? I thought I read on here that harnesses make dobies pull MORE. But I might be misremembering.
 
All dogs will be different. Here's my story, Asha at about 8 or 9 months? I can't remember. I was giving the ol' college try on this. Dog pulls, keep leash tight, turn the other way, when you feel ONE SINGLE RELEASE on the dogs part - looking back at you, turning just a bit to be with you, etc. - big party and go on. It NEVER happened. Asha was content to lean on the leash until hell froze over. One time I felt the leash getting even more pulled on. She is laying down, leaning on the leash with all her weight, trying to unlodge a stick from a bush. Gave zero cares what I wanted to do. I honestly think I gave my particular dog too much time with this effort. She's 2 1/2 years now and still has moments of leaning on the leash. I wouldn't do this method again if I it didn't bring quick results.
Would it be okay to have a prong collar at his age?
What's the age again? They are rather self correcting, so if you don't pop it or anything drastic, you should be fine.
 
I introduced the prong collar at 10 months after trying EVERYTHING else, even the halti collar. Looking back I it would have been better to start at 8 months and forget the halti!
 
I pretty much agree that it's about the same difference, but at this age and especially off leash he may get in the habit of running after you and jumping on you - because this really looks like an invite to play, not to run along your side. Which could turn into nipping or knocking you down or at the very least just a bad habit. Personally I'd wait until he's older just so he can separate play time with jogging. Also the more exercise he gets the fitter he gets and the more work it takes to get him tired. Try some nose work for mental work outs.

The intro to Fast Cat with puppies should be fine as long as the lure operator doesn't go too far with it. Before I got my puppy I saw this at a Fast Cat and most of the puppies were very hard to coax into going very far or very fast, but they weren't prey-drive types anyway. Since Gil may chase the lure and be pretty fast, they just need to know to keep it short & sweet and not keep going.

# 3 doesn't have a question, but I'll put in my 2 cents. These dogs can play rough. A four year old should be old enough to grasp some rules around the puppy: No running, no shrieking, no teasing. A dog that can easily go into prey drive and will soon be 70 - 80 lbs needs no encouragement to play rough. Even if it's just in play, they can hit like a baseball bat (where was that recent picture of Bri with her black eye?). You don't want your kid to have a bad experience with the puppy at a young age. Have your child take part in teaching Gil to sit while he waits for his food bowl to be put down. They can both learn together about good manners and why it's important for the dog to have self control.
Thank you!!!
 
Omg Ravenbird, I had a giant response and somehow ny post deleted everything but the thank you! 🤦‍♀️ I'll rewrite it later, but that was very good advice, especially about running with him! I didn't think of that, but of course he'd think we were playing and would pounce! Lol. Gilly is only 4.5 months old right now, so that's why I was wondering about a prong alternative. (I'm pro prong, just not sure at his age! I've found mixed answers from trainers online).
 
I started the Prong at 6months and it was a night and day difference. What a tremendous tool when used correctly.

Zero pull….
 

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