The colors of a red Doberman

[Rits]

I think @Oh Little Oji mentioned one time the really shiny blacks seemed to be genetic, as some blacks just didn't get that shine. After doing the Embark genetics testing I found out that my dog is BB, no dilutes in her system at all, so the lightbulb came on wondering if that's what gives her that black-black shine. Also wondering if a black puppy from a Black/Red breeding that expresses black, but carries the red gene isn't that shiny black Oji refers to. And on the subject of reds, would a red puppy coming from the Black/Red breeding perhaps be a deeper red rather than a paler red? I love genetics. I'd have to go do more homework though because I'm not sure if a red can express red if carrying any black gene. Hmmmm.

I don't think its genetic. I think coat shine is largely nutritional and indicative of health but also other outside factors can have a play. Like playing in the pool and not rinsing or bathing afterwards could strip and dry the coat of the shine. Lighting plays a huge factor too. A dog can look dull in dim lighting and be shiny with full sunshine. I often find dogs with a dull coat, when I pet them my hand is left with residue. Smell your hand and it smells doggy - dirt, grime, and oils. I feel a healthy coat shouldn't smell strongly of any foul odors or leave any residue behind on your hand. And that healthy coat that doesn't do that is often the shiny coat

 

[Skb]

Yeah....pretty serious now.

The girls are virtual schooling because of Covid. They have taken a more responsible approach with Ragnar to prove they are worthy, haha. Tristen walks him in the morn and Kelsie will run with him in the evenings. They have to keep up their soccer physical shape up anyways to be able to compete. Payton makes sure that he gets fed. So all and all, I think they are doing well.

Also, I have always felt that Ragnar would love to have a companion. When he does get to know another dog, he goes crazy with them around- really likes their presence and play. And then there is @C908 sending those picts of Preacher and Mercy...... that pretty much sealed the deal.

I think we are ready and in a good spot right now.


Type/temperament?
I am not necessarily looking at any that are working or Euro. Ragnar maybe NA but that asshat has the drive of a working Doberman, so I need a female that isn’t going to cower or put up with his crap. He is ALOT like @C908 Preacher. Euros tend to be too blocky to me, just too much work in their appearance.

I really like the elegant regal appearance of a NA but not too dainty that they look breakable or like a Barbie Doberman. Add some muscle and a little hardness (solid obedience) in there and you have it to me.

I have seen some really nice NA/SA or NA/Euro crosses in my research and I’ve seen some nice straight NA Dobermans also. The trick is finding all the above....

-Have one solid contact- thanks to @Rits and @JanS.
-Have a possible- thanks to @Panama
-Have a possible- thanks to Ragnar’s breeder
-Have a possible with Acadiana Dobermans- but the member here wasn’t too pleased with how short his ears were cropped. That’s why I tried to re-light that thread, to see what he thought of that breeder and how his pup is doing.

It seems like you got exactly what you wanted in your girl Freyja!

 

[Rosa]

That may be true, but I think certain amount relies on the particular dog--then how you care for it will determine the rest. I think the markings play a huge roll in how the red actually looks.

 

[Rits]

It seems like you got exactly what you wanted in your girl Freyja!

you're right... especially this part!

so I need a female that isn’t going to cower or put up with his crap

and maybe learned something or two about Ragnar lol!

That may be true, but I think certain amount relies on the particular dog--then how you care for it will determine the rest. I think the markings play a huge roll in how the red actually looks.

Maybe you have my response confused but I was quoting and responding to @Ravenbird about a black dog's shine.

 

[Rosa]

O

you're right... especially this part!

and maybe learned something or two about Ragnar lol!


Maybe you have my response confused but I was quoting and responding to @Ravenbird about a black dog's shine.

Okay: I agree on overall care of the coat and dog making a big difference.

 

[Ravenbird]

I don't think its genetic. I think coat shine is largely nutritional and indicative of health but also other outside factors can have a play. Like playing in the pool and not rinsing or bathing afterwards could strip and dry the coat of the shine. Lighting plays a huge factor too. A dog can look dull in dim lighting and be shiny with full sunshine. I often find dogs with a dull coat, when I pet them my hand is left with residue. Smell your hand and it smells doggy - dirt, grime, and oils. I feel a healthy coat shouldn't smell strongly of any foul odors or leave any residue behind on your hand. And that healthy coat that doesn't do that is often the shiny coat

I do agree that my dog won't reflect the light when she's dirty compared to after a bath, but I have sat in the bleachers watching the Dobermans at a conformation class and some blacks definitely have a shine that some others don't, and it just doesn't look like vitamins or diet. It may not be linked to the genetic BB or Bb etc. but I do think coat color has to be inherited. So maybe the mahogany reds will produce mahogany reds, not pale reds, but still have the same genetic marker. Like chestnut horses, lots of different shades of red.

 

[Rosa]

I do agree that my dog won't reflect the light when she's dirty compared to after a bath, but I have sat in the bleachers watching the Dobermans at a conformation class and some blacks definitely have a shine that some others don't, and it just doesn't look like vitamins or diet. It may not be linked to the genetic BB or Bb etc. but I do think coat color has to be inherited. So maybe the mahogany reds will produce mahogany reds, not pale reds, but still have the same genetic marker. Like chestnut horses, lots of different shades of red.

True. Chestnut horses go from light golden colored to dark rich red, and even to liver and black chestnut. And yes, usually a horse of that color will be more likely to produce another of that same color.

 

[Ravenbird]

https://dobequest.org/genotype.php
I don't see anything that suggests that the genes have something to do with the coloring, but you would assume that there is a reason.

I think this article is the reason I wondered if the "shine" on blacks would be different since there is Black 1, 2, 3, & 4 - each one expressing black but not carrying different genetic codes.

 

[Rosa]

I think this article is the reason I wondered if the "shine" on blacks would be different since there is Black 1, 2, 3, & 4 - each one expressing black but not carrying different genetic codes.

You would assume there has to be a reason, but I've seen some very shiny blacks that produced reds, therefore meaning that they had to carry for it...however it may have had everything to do with the camera and angle of the picture...lighting...

 

[Rits]

I do agree that my dog won't reflect the light when she's dirty compared to after a bath, but I have sat in the bleachers watching the Dobermans at a conformation class and some blacks definitely have a shine that some others don't, and it just doesn't look like vitamins or diet. It may not be linked to the genetic BB or Bb etc. but I do think coat color has to be inherited. So maybe the mahogany reds will produce mahogany reds, not pale reds, but still have the same genetic marker. Like chestnut horses, lots of different shades of red.

Show sheen

 

[JanS]

Zeus (our horse) is a solid black in winter and summer but turns bay between those seasons.

 

[JanS]

Yesterday hubby and I were having our morning coffee with Elroy laying by our feet. He looked at Elroy and said "it seems like his color is getting darker all the time". Since he was such a deep mahogany I thought he'd lighten up if anything but hubby said he almost looks black now in lower light. I agree since if it's starting to get dark outside, I have a hard time telling who's who if they're not together.

This was in June and it was with my cell so the color isn't 100% accurate but you can see what I mean here.

 

[Ravenbird]

he was such a deep mahogany I thought he'd lighten up if anything but hubby said he almost looks black now in lower light.

I recently saw a photo of a show dog that I thought was black, then saw another photo of him and he was dark dark red. Can't remember who it was, just scrolling the 'net. Definitely the darkest red I've seen!