Not my thing, but out of curiosity...

[bomary]

Jax and I have private sessions with a trainer just to work on some basics at his young age. We haven't gone often, but we do head over there when I worry that a problem is more than I can figure out on my own....leash pulling, biting leash, etc. (Of course he has also done the stupid Petsmart class to socialize, etc., and I have worked a great deal with him on my own.) When he is six months (that's in three weeks), we are going to up his training to several times a week.
Her specialty is training Labs, but she has 30+ years experience training many medium and large breed dogs.
One of the things that she does, and I have read about trainers in other areas doing this, is take the dogs for several weeks...kind of a "boot camp" or "boarding school" for dogs. That lasts from 6-8 weeks depending on the dog's progress. I think this is mostly focused on dogs that she is training to be working dogs. (She has several very accomplished dogs that she has owned/trained.) When I first had Jax, I thought, "Do I need to do that?...when he gets older will I wish I had?" I even talked to her about it and asked if he could come home on weekends. Even as I was asking those questions, I knew that this was not for me. This is from her website:

Caravanseai Kennels is located on Lake Texoma, near the Red River on the Texas side. Our kennels and home are on forty acres of training ground which borders the Hagerman Wildlife Refuge. We utilize several hundred acres around our Ranch for training which have several technical ponds designed for training.

Barry and Cheri Bates have a combined 41 years experience in dog training.
Our programs include:

• Basic Obedience (any breed)
• Gun Dog
• Hunt Test
• Field Trial

"Our Goal is to give the best training to our clients and their dogs. The care of our clients dogs is very important to us"
Cheri and Barry Bates

• Year' Round Training and Handling
• Waterfowl Guide Service
• Labrador Litter
• Stud Dog Service
• Clients Dog Service
• Boarding

I was out there last weekend, and she did have a 7 month old Doberman there. (Not nearly as pretty as any of ours, of course!!) I know (and you guys likely do too...that there is no way that I could be separated from my boy for that long!) She says that she encourages owners to stay completely away for the first week...prefers two weeks (wow...no can do!) Then, the owners come work with her and their dog as often as they can. (She said she has some people who don't come out until it is time to pick up their dog....HOW??)
Anyway, my vet recommended her, and after meeting her I can tell that she absolutely loves dogs and knows her stuff. He (my vet) did the "boarding school" thing for his dog because it was during his first year of veterinarian school, and it sounded like he thought it would be a good idea to do. In fact, many people I have spoken to say that they think this is a "must" for larger dogs. She also does private lessons and that is what Jax and I do (and plan to start doing more frequently.) She said she has few people who do that...that they begin, and then don't follow through with practice at home and end up quitting. (She did add that she could tell that the "no follow-through" would not be an issue with us.)
There are many reasons I wouldn't do this "boot camp" for Jax:
1) I would miss him like crazy, and even though people say dogs adapt quickly, I like to think he would miss me!
2) I worry about him becoming ill or having a minor problem and it going unnoticed (even though her meticulousness is obvious...he's my baby!)
3) I know this one is silly, but I feel like he would feel abandoned, and maybe not act the same with me. (humanizing much?)
4) Probably most importantly, he might see her as his "leader" and not do as well for me.

To reiterate, this is not something I plan to do with my boy. I think that with us going often to a professional and being consistent at home, we will do fine. I just wanted to get your opinions on this type of thing.

When I am out there, it looks like the dogs sleep in outdoor kennels. She did mention that on a particularly cold night (rare in TX) she had the Doberman sleep in her living room. Do they go home and remember that they have a comfy bed (in my case, in three different rooms of the house??!!) Are they still the same loving, velcro dog to the owner? (I actually like his velcro!) Are they still just family members who are totally content to be in the house most of the time but have frequent training/exercise/play/walks?...Or do they need to be working like they were when they were at "big kid school?"

I don't know all of the right words to use to get my point across, so please don't anyone be offended if I worded something wrong. I am just very curious about this type of set-up. I can't really find much about it on line. A few people who are knowledgeable about dogs have said that this type of training is an absolute "must" for a dog "like a Doberman...not sure what that means...??? It's almost as if they are under the impression that if you don't send a Doberman off to boarding school, you are setting yourself (and your dog) up for failure. I strongly disagree although I do know the importance of working with an established trainer. (I just don't think Jax needs to move in with the trainer!)

Maybe it's just that they haven't known Dobermans whose owners have them as a top priority in their lives...?? Maybe they see all Dobermans as aggressive who need more hard-core training than an owner can provide...??? I just don't know. Again, Jax will NOT be doing this. I'm just curious about what y'all think or what you have heard about this type of thing.

 

[MyBuddy]

Just my personal opinion too, but I could never do this. First off, I could never be separated from my dog. Second, I don't feel I am incapable of training him/her myself. Third, I want him bonded to me not a trainer. I could go on and on. Its just not for me, that's all. Even if I am having a serious problem with my dog, I'd rather the trainer spend time WITH me so we can learn together. (my dog and I)

No disrespect to anyone who has sent their dog off to 'camp'. It's just not for me.

 

[bomary]

Yeah, that is kind of how I feel too. Though, I don't disrespect anyone who does it...(My vet is an amazing guy who loves all dogs, and he did it.) I just couldn't spend that much time away from my boy. He is what I look forward to every morning and every day after work! I honestly think I would suffer a bit of depression if he was away for an extended time.
I just wondered if anyone had done this or know people who have (specifically with Dobermans) and what the outcome was.
Because Jax is my first Doberman, I do sometimes wonder, "Am I competent and confident enough to do this?" This forum has helped a lot. Plus, just observing and interacting with him, he seems very well balanced, happy, intelligent, etc. I do not hesitate to call the trainer if I feel unsure about something.

 

[obbanner]

I haven't done a boot camp, so can't say either way. I think that the one who needs training most is the owner, and you should be learning as a team. I trained a few family members dogs, and when I gave them back, they were untrained within a few months because the family member didn't follow up on the training. I don't do that anymore.

Dobermans aren't labs. I train with retriever people and have found that some things they do don't work with Dobermans. For instance, a retriever will do countless reps of an exercise, but a Doberman will get bored very easily and performance will start falling off. Dobermans feelings get hurt easier.

Retrievers were bred to be like young children and endlessly play fetch. Dobermans were bred to be guard dogs. There's a bit of a difference in their mental makeup.

If you can find a trainer who owned Dobermans, that's the best option. If you can find a trainer who has trained guard dog breeds such as Akitas or GSDs, that's also good.

Good luck!

 

[Marinegeekswife]

Personally, I'm not a fan of board and train. Most of the time it is the handler that needs the training, not the dog. Beyond that, you miss out on vital bonding that occurs through training yourself and you miss out on learning subtle personality quirks and training methods that can help you with training issues later.

 

[bomary]

I haven't done a boot camp, so can't say either way. I think that the one who needs training most is the owner, and you should be learning as a team. I trained a few family members dogs, and when I gave them back, they were untrained within a few months because the family member didn't follow up on the training. I don't do that anymore.

Dobermans aren't labs. I train with retriever people and have found that some things they do don't work with Dobermans. For instance, a retriever will do countless reps of an exercise, but a Doberman will get bored very easily and performance will start falling off. Dobermans feelings get hurt easier.

Retrievers were bred to be like young children and endlessly play fetch. Dobermans were bred to be guard dogs. There's a bit of a difference in their mental makeup.

If you can find a trainer who owned Dobermans, that's the best option. If you can find a trainer who has trained guard dog breeds such as Akitas or GSDs, that's also good.

Good luck!

I will look for that, and I agree...If someone else trains my dog, I don't know that he would then be as effective when I give the commands. Again, it is not something I plan to do. I just have been curious about it since I heard of it. I definitely know that all dogs need different kinds of training. Unfortunately, I live in a fairly rural area of Texas. I could drive to Dallas once a week (a little over an hour) for more Doberman-specific training, and I am certainly willing to do that. I just don't know that it would be enough (once a week with a professional?) I would most certainly follow up...my world pretty much revolves around Jax (no kids, no husband...a little pathetic, but I don't care), so it is very important for me to do the best thing for him.

 

[bomary]

Personally, I'm not a fan of board and train. Most of the time it is the handler that needs the training, not the dog. Beyond that, you miss out on vital bonding that occurs through training yourself and you miss out on learning subtle personality quirks and training methods that can help you with training issues later.

I agree: I guess I just kind of wanted to hear stories of people who know someone who has done this...I am NOT planning to do it...my curiosity is just piqued about the outcome.

 

[obbanner]

I just don't know that it would be enough (once a week with a professional?) I would most certainly follow up...my world pretty much revolves around Jax (no kids, no husband...a little pathetic, but I don't care), so it is very important for me to do the best thing for him.

I think once a week would be good. Dog training takes time and patience, and new things are added slowly over time. It's important that you spend time every day training Jax. A few short sessions are more productive than one long session.

 

[bomary]

Personally, I'm not a fan of board and train. Most of the time it is the handler that needs the training, not the dog. Beyond that, you miss out on vital bonding that occurs through training yourself and you miss out on learning subtle personality quirks and training methods that can help you with training issues later.

BTW, I know I need training. I have sought that out at every opportunity.

 

[bomary]

I think once a week would be good. Dog training takes time and patience, and new things are added slowly over time. It's important that you spend time every day training Jax. A few short sessions are more productive than one long session.

Even though I'm a newbie, that is what sounds smart to me. I'm looking forward to having the tools I need to be able to trust his recall and have him off leash at times (only at areas in which I have done very thorough recon!!)

 

[bomary]

Just to clarify...now that I know more about my guy as well as training, this is NOT something I want to do (honestly, even when he was very new to me, I didn't consider it). I think maybe my post sounded like I'm still considering it. I'm not. Again...NO chance I could be away from my baby that long, and I wouldn't trust someone to tell me everything that goes on.
I really just wanted to know if anyone knew dogs who had done it and if they could tell a difference between those dogs who "boarded" and dogs who were trained by owners with the regular help of trainers.
My post was long...they always are...so I understand why it kind of sounded like I'm debating doing this.
Sleep outside????!!!!....not my baby!

 

[Rits]

I like that she gives you the ability to come. Most of these board type trainers don't do that so that is a plus. I can see the benefit of the first week of the dog learning to be away from home and being okay with it. We often hear of how much of a tizzy this breed can get if boarded without any previous training of being left with unfamiliar people or in an unfamiliar place. Sometimes life isn't as nice as we want it to be and we might have to board our animal, so it would be nice to have that comfort of mind knowing our guys aren't stressed and freaking out. There are also other ways to to practice this, though.

I haven't ever trained this way and I agree with everyone else that I would want to do the training myself under the advice of an instructor. Does she offer private lessons instead?

 

[bomary]

I like that she gives you the ability to come. Most of these board type trainers don't do that so that is a plus. I can see the benefit of the first week of the dog learning to be away from home and being okay with it. We often hear of how much of a tizzy this breed can get if boarded without any previous training of being left with unfamiliar people or in an unfamiliar place. Sometimes life isn't as nice as we want it to be and we might have to board our animal, so it would be nice to have that comfort of mind knowing our guys aren't stressed and freaking out. There are also other ways to to practice this, though.

I haven't ever trained this way and I agree with everyone else that I would want to do the training myself under the advice of an instructor. Does she offer private lessons instead?

Oh yes, she does. That's what Jax and I are doing (private). I can't imagine him being gone for that long. I'm just new to the dog world and wondered if anyone here knew of anyone who had experience with the "boarding school." It just seems like the doc would come home completely different!!!
Again, I am NOT doing it! I think my post read as if I'm deciding whether to do this or not. I'm not deciding...I just wanted to know more about the effects on the dogs and the relationships. Jax will NOT be spending weeks with someone (regardless of their qualifications!)

 

[AresMyDobie]

I personally wouldn't want to do this either. I like to work with my dog. I will be under the advice and supervision of my trainer and I will hand over my dog so he can show me what to do while I'm there so I can learn. I think learning together and being able to communicate with each other is important. Learning your dogs body language and cues are a great thing, you can tell if he just not up for something that day, if he is stressed out, having fun etc. Separation anxiety is a thing with dobes my boy had a slight case but is over it now so being away from you isn't a bad thing and he needs to grasp that concept or you'll regret not teaching him that, but he doesn't need to be away for weeks at a time to teach that it's ok if mom leaves. Anyways don't listen to most of the "hype" people will say about your dobe. I think we've all heard how they love to eat their owner but fact of the matter is they don't know what they are talking about. People make these presumptions but honestly these guys are sensitive and need someone who understands how to train. As stated above retrievers and dobes are extremely different I've owned a golden and now a dobe not at all the same and totally different when it comes to training. Do what you think is best

 

[Rits]

Oh yes, she does. That's what Jax and I are doing (private). I can't imagine him being gone for that long. I'm just new to the dog world and wondered if anyone here knew of anyone who had experience with the "boarding school." It just seems like the doc would come home completely different!!!
Again, I am NOT doing it! I think my post read as if I'm deciding whether to do this or not. I'm not deciding...I just wanted to know more about the effects on the dogs and the relationships. Jax will NOT be spending weeks with someone (regardless of their qualifications!)

Oh, I understood that you weren't doing it. I think a lot of people are responding in case anyone else reading this now or in the future thinks of doing it. It works for some dogs and people but really its the people that need trained

Glad she offers private lessons! She doesn't sound that bad and I wouldn't write her off just because she offers the other type of training. So long as you go to her for your basic obedience and/or she's open to training differently for each individual dog. It would be helpful for you to know if she has any experience training dobes in private classes and how did it turn out? Maybe you can reach out to the client with the Dobe? Although, I'm not sure how much help that'll be since they are boarding their Dobe...lol. That kinda says enough. That is nice she brought a previous Dobe in on a cold night, she at least understands that they don't have a double coat.

Once a week training isn't too bad. It would be the skills and knowledge you'd bring home that would be soo worth it! Private classes you are expected to do your homework anyways and having time between practice helps you and the dog have some time to work on your own, and process what was practiced. I don't blame you for hesitating. I don't think I could personally afford to travel over 90 minutes each week for training unless it was very specific and advanced training.

 

[bomary]

I am going to talk to her tonight just to sort of see how our schedules mesh. I'll be over there for sure this weekend because even though Jax is great about the leash walking now, when we get close to home, he gets really excited and starts jumping around like a wild man and biting at the leash (which he had not done in a while). She told me when I first started talking to her that I was welcome to come watch her and her husband work with the dogs, so maybe I will try to go at a time when I can do that. I'd really like to watch her work with the Doberman, but like you said, I question the owners' goals for him simply because he is staying out there with her for 2 months!! How can they stand that?
She is a very nice woman and sounds knowledgeable, and like I said, my veterinarian (who I highly respect) brought her name up. I do kind of wonder about how effective it would be since her focus is primarily on labs. Although, with the private lessons, I think she would be open to change it up to suit my goals for Jax. I suspect the private sessions with her will work out...I definitely would "follow through" which sounds like it is a problem with some of the people who do private lessons with her. I think people just don't have time (or say they don't have time) to train a dog themselves...which to me means that they shouldn't have one...but they want a trained dog, so they buy it and turn the responsibility over to someone else. I can't imagine that the bond between dog and owner wouldn't suffer....??? Again, I know nothing!...just couldn't quit thinking about this.
Honestly, Jax really is what I have going on in life right now (and I'm quite happy with that!!)...no children, etc., just finished graduate school...I have lots of time. Plus, I'm a teacher, so I'm getting close to having the entire summer with him. It would not bother me to drive a bit to go to training if it were superior to what I can do around here. I'll give this a go, though (the private sessions) that are only a few minutes away from me, and if I don't think it's what Jax needs, I will find someone with more Doberman experience.

 

[MischasMomma]

Ok here's my take on this... I considered doing a board and train because I was having really bad issues that I just couldn't overcome even with the help of a professional trainer. I did not do it mainly because she would have been 2 hours away, they trained solely with an e collar, and they wanted $4000.

I thought about it a 2nd time, with the girl I did private training with. She has extensive experience and has been extremely successful. She also lives very local so that was a bonus. With having 3 kids and working full time, it was tough to accommodate the "hard core" training we were trying. She also bred and showed dobes, so she has a ton of experience with the breed specifically. I decided to not do board and train, but we will be doing daycare and train. She will spend 3 days a week with the trainer while I am at work- I figure if she would be home alone (in her crate) anyway, why not get socialized and have some training instead? Then when I pick her up at the end of the day, we have a 30 min session when the trainer goes over everything with me that was covered that day for me to work on at home. They do 30 min sessions, then nap or play in between so it's not too overwhelming. She will not spend the night away from me, although I feel as though it is a good idea to desensitize dogs, especially dobes, to this in case they need to be boarded. I've seen dobes lose weight and basically go into a depressive state if boarded... You can't ALWAYS take them with you on vacation, and what if you don't have family or friends who can dog sit? (just speculating from the other side of things here)

 

[bomary]

Ok here's my take on this... I considered doing a board and train because I was having really bad issues that I just couldn't overcome even with the help of a professional trainer. I did not do it mainly because she would have been 2 hours away, they trained solely with an e collar, and they wanted $4000.

I thought about it a 2nd time, with the girl I did private training with. She has extensive experience and has been extremely successful. She also lives very local so that was a bonus. With having 3 kids and working full time, it was tough to accommodate the "hard core" training we were trying. She also bred and showed dobes, so she has a ton of experience with the breed specifically. I decided to not do board and train, but we will be doing daycare and train. She will spend 3 days a week with the trainer while I am at work- I figure if she would be home alone (in her crate) anyway, why not get socialized and have some training instead? Then when I pick her up at the end of the day, we have a 30 min session when the trainer goes over everything with me that was covered that day for me to work on at home. They do 30 min sessions, then nap or play in between so it's not too overwhelming. She will not spend the night away from me, although I feel as though it is a good idea to desensitize dogs, especially dobes, to this in case they need to be boarded. I've seen dobes lose weight and basically go into a depressive state if boarded... You can't ALWAYS take them with you on vacation, and what if you don't have family or friends who can dog sit? (just speculating from the other side of things here)

That sounds like a pretty cool idea to me. I am talking to the trainer this evening. I'm going to print all of these responses, so that I have some good questions to ask. (Experience with Dobermans, etc.) I know that she trains with prongs (not E Collars.) She does a lot of work on recall and both on/off leash training. Jax is absolutely not spending that much time away from me (boarding) for many reasons I've probably already mentioned. However, maybe she would be amenable to something similar to what you described. She is very close to where I live. In fact, when I run (I'm not right now because I just had ACL reconstruction) I pass her place. I could drop him off in the morning before work and then she could work with me for a while after work. Even two days a week would be nice (not overnight...that just makes me uncomfortable, and he has a great routine going...Yes, I do need to find a way to get him desensitized to places other than home...doing some thinking on that.) Surely she would consider that because I'd be willing to pay somewhere between the boarding and the multiple private lessons, and then continue with private lessons after...something to think about. Then again, she may be set in her ways and say it's one way or the other...or find another trainer.
I'm not even having big problems with Jax...just typical puppy stuff. I just know that as he grows he needs to be super trustworthy. I am committed to doing what is best for him, and I have plenty of time. I think her main thing with people who come out for private lessons (and don't do the boarding thing) is that they don't work on the things at home; they expect their dog to master the command/s in one session with her and then when the dog obviously can't do that, they get frustrated and stop working. That would not be the case with me because working with him is what I look forward to every day.

 

[Drogon]

I'm late to the discussion. I think this depends entirely on the situation. Say there's someone who is 60+ yrs old and has owned Dobermans throughout their life but now at their age they don't have the energy and patience to train. In that case a boot camp could be a great alternative.

The second day I had Drogon, I signed up for PetSmart puppy training. It was completely useless and we stopped going after the second session. I found a great trainer who works for a training center that also trains police dogs. They have police cars donated to them so the dogs can be trained with the cars. I wanted to get Drogon a jump start on his training. I took him to what they call 'Day Training'. I dropped him off at 7AM and then picked him up at 4PM. It worked out great for us and I would recommend it to anyone. It helped Drogon build his self confidence almost immediately. Prior to that training, he was afraid of things like automatic doors. After 1 week of day training, he was walking through the doors and around pretty much anywhere we went as if he owned the place.

My father was a hunter. He lived to hunt (and fish). Most often he hunted birds and used dogs to retrieve them. He would send his dogs to what my mom called dog college. They were gone for 3 months and came back perfectly trained for bird hunting. A bit different but still it does have its place.

 

[Prushanks]

I agree.. not really for me.. though i would try the drop off Training Day for sure if i had the money!! Like kids going to school!

On a totally unrelated side note.. the ratings are driving me crazy being so close together!! I keep trying to press "agree" and i press "disagree"!!! Blargh!