My Dobermans are dying young of heart disease. Why?

[bluelou]

I last posted here in 2021 and received helpful tips about caring for my new European Doberman pups. It's 4 years later and 2 of my 4 Dobermans have died of suspected heart disease.

Some background:
In 2020, I purchased a male and a female Doberman from Vom Hismerh Kennels in NJ.
Results of genetic tests (Embark) that I paid for showed one genetic marker for DCM for the male and none for the female. There were no genetic markers for other diseases.

Unintentionally, we ended up with a litter of 8 pups. We gave away 6 of them to friends and family and kept 2. So, we had the 2 parents and 2 male offspring.
One pup had one marker for DCM and the other had none.

In Nov 2024, the female parent died of heart failure during an emergency vet visit. The animal hospital, Oradell Animal Hospital, said they suspected DCM based on their visual exam of the heart. Note that the genetic tests didn't pick this up.

In Aug 2025, this past weekend, one of her pups collapsed while playing and died immediately. The dog seemed a bit tired the past few days, but there were no other behavioral changes. We didn't order an autopsy.

That's 2 dogs that have died in the past 9 months of suspected heart disease at only 4 years old. We love the breed and we like having several dogs. But, now we're afraid something is wrong and we're not sure what it is. We've owned many other dogs and other pets in the past and we've never had anything like this happen in the past. We have a 14 year old mutt in the exact same environment and she's as healthy as ever.

Is there a growing problem with heart disease in European Dobermans? Why didn't the genetic testing pick this up? Is it the breeder? Or, is it just bad luck?

Thank you in advance for any constructive comments.

 

[Two Dobes]

So very sorry for your losses....DCM is a devastating disease that many of us here have dealt with. 60% of Dobermans, the statistics say; will develop DCM...I believe that is across the board.....American and Europeans.
The genetic testing is not reliable, because there are more than just the 2 genes.....they have not identified the others....so they may test negative; but that is no guarentee that they will not develop the disease. Also; when they test postive, they do not always develop DCM.
Do a search on DCM here, and you will find many discussions about this topic, and genetic testing.
Again, very sorry for your loss and devastation. I am not familiar with the kennel name, but when doing research for a doberman, the best we can do is study the pedigrees for longevity, and cause of death in family members.
You can put the parents of your dogs in this search and see what you find out about their pedigrees - Dobermanns` base

 

[bluelou]

So very sorry for your losses....DCM is a devastating disease that many of us here have dealt with. 60% of Dobermans, the statistics say; will develop DCM...I believe that is across the board.....American and Europeans.
The genetic testing is not reliable, because there are more than just the 2 genes.....they have not identified the others....so they may test negative; but that is no guarentee that they will not develop the disease. Also; when they test postive, they do not always develop DCM.
Do a search on DCM here, and you will find many discussions about this topic, and genetic testing.
Again, very sorry for your loss and devastation. I am not familiar with the kennel name, but when doing research for a doberman, the best we can do is study the pedigrees for longevity, and cause of death in family members.
You can put the parents of your dogs in this search and see what you find out about their pedigrees - Dobermanns` base

Thank you for your kind reply. I'd looked up the parents names in the past. Our first 2 Dobermans shared the same male parent. I don't recall finding anything noteworthy at the time, but I'll look again just in case.

I had suspected this about the sufficiency of the genetic tests, thank you for confirming this. I knew that DCM was a possibility when we started with this breed, but I didn't realize that this affected relatively young dogs, too. Thanks again.

 

[BGpa]

Not sure if its archived here but DPCA has an open to the public educational forum here:

Public Education Home | DPCA

dpca.org

With some good past articles on DCM.

And put out some good stuff to members last year, by a couple experts- you can access on youtube:

And

And

 

[BGpa]

And if your browser allows, you can find more under health in the Breeders section, some going back aways...as you read you will learn its complicated, and the science is ecolving, and there are things you can do to hopefully minimize the genetic health risks, and treat to mitigate effects of it appears, with early annual testing.

https://dpca.org/wp-content/uploads/meurs-dcm.pdf

Very sorry for your loss...
Genetic diseases exist in many highly inbred dogs, and it sucks to lose one, despite doing your best homework and care.

 

[JanS]

So sorry for your losses.

Is there a growing problem with heart disease in European Dobermans?

It seems to be more prevalent in Euros in the last decade or so, which is personally why I've gone away from them. Even if they were born in the US a lot of breeders in Europe don't do the important health testing before breeding them so many of them imported to the US are affected by it.

Why didn't the genetic testing pick this up?

Genetic testing from places like Embark only tells you if they have the markers but it's definitely not a replacement for yearly echos and holters that can tell you a ton more.

 

[bluelou]

So sorry for your losses.



It seems to be more prevalent in Euros in the last decade or so, which is personally why I've gone away from them. Even if they were born in the US a lot of breeders in Europe don't do the important health testing before breeding them so many of them imported to the US are affected by it.

Genetic testing from places like Embark only tells you if they have the markers but it's definitely not a replacement for yearly echos and holters that can tell you a ton more.

Isn't DCM is a terminal disease? What does a yearly echo/holter tell me other than estimated time to death? If DCM can be managed as a chronic, rather than terminal, disease I'm eager to learn more.

 

[JanS]

What does a yearly echo/holter tell me other than estimated time to death?

It can show you early signs so you can start preventatives to prolong their lives by years sometimes.
It's really important for breeders so they don't breed dogs who are any showing signs.

 

[Ravenbird]

I'm sorry for your losses and it's encouraging that you came here to ask and want to learn. As everyone has said, there is no prediction via genetic testing to confirm DCM. It has become more and more predictable by the longevity of the dogs in the pedigree since we DO know that it is a heritable disease. Many euro kennels, especially the larger ones that are churning out puppies to export are also the most well known for early death DCM.

A quick search of the kennel you got your dogs from are not reputable at all. They have dozens of breeding dogs and on the puppy litters page show 5 litters in July alone. At a glance they all are from the European kennels known for high rates of DCM. This is the pedigree of the sire of one of Von Hesmiths stud dogs Oscar Vom Hismerh. Their webpage says date of birth is 11-20-2024. If that is not a typo it is abominable as he the sire listed of at least 2 litters already. His own sire Sex Pistols died of DCM at age 4 and that dogs sire also died at age 4.

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This pedigree website is made of voluntary COD (cause of death) information and it's the only way we can learn at this point what lines to stop breeding and if you are a puppy buyer stop buying these lines! If you are heart broken and angry enough, please enter your own dogs that died way too soon to warn others to stay away from these lines. The breeder in New Jersey is a cess pool of DCM. I'm so sorry you didn't know better at the time and are going through this. I'm not meaning to blame you at all, I'm angry that this kind of kennel exists here and is making tons of money off innocent people who don't know and are expanding this disease by leaps and bounds.

I wish you the best with your dogs. Have them neutered & spayed, tell the owners of your litter to neuter & spay and to warn them of DCM most likely in their puppies too.

 

[bluelou]

I'm sorry for your losses and it's encouraging that you came here to ask and want to learn. As everyone has said, there is no prediction via genetic testing to confirm DCM. It has become more and more predictable by the longevity of the dogs in the pedigree since we DO know that it is a heritable disease. Many euro kennels, especially the larger ones that are churning out puppies to export are also the most well known for early death DCM.

A quick search of the kennel you got your dogs from are not reputable at all. They have dozens of breeding dogs and on the puppy litters page show 5 litters in July alone. At a glance they all are from the European kennels known for high rates of DCM. This is the pedigree of the sire of one of Von Hesmiths stud dogs Oscar Vom Hismerh. Their webpage says date of birth is 11-20-2024. If that is not a typo it is abominable as he the sire listed of at least 2 litters already. His own sire Sex Pistols died of DCM at age 4 and that dogs sire also died at age 4.

404 Not Found

This pedigree website is made of voluntary COD (cause of death) information and it's the only way we can learn at this point what lines to stop breeding and if you are a puppy buyer stop buying these lines! If you are heart broken and angry enough, please enter your own dogs that died way too soon to warn others to stay away from these lines. The breeder in New Jersey is a cess pool of DCM. I'm so sorry you didn't know better at the time and are going through this. I'm not meaning to blame you at all, I'm angry that this kind of kennel exists here and is making tons of money off innocent people who don't know and are expanding this disease by leaps and bounds.

I wish you the best with your dogs. Have them neutered & spayed, tell the owners of your litter to neuter & spay and to warn them of DCM most likely in their puppies too.

Ravenbird, JanS, BG1, Two Dobes, et. al,
Your suggestions and advice have been incredibly helpful. I'll manage the health of our 2 remaining Dobermans the best I can. Given the incidence of heart disease in the breed and dearth of adequate tests for this I won't adopt from this breed again.

As an aside, I've owned European Belgian Malinois in the past and I'm looking into adopting 2 Euro Belgian Shephards after the loss of 2 of our Dobermans. This time, a major consideration will be the genetic diversity of the breed. The Euro Belgian standard allows for mixing of 4 different types of Belgian Shepherd so I'm cautiously optimistic. Maybe the AKC should permit mixing? Of course, it's early days and I still have plenty of research to do.

Although I've decided to move on from this breed, I won't forget your effort. I've made a donation to this site as a measure of thanks.

Sincerely,
Lou

 

[Ravenbird]

As an aside, I've owned European Belgian Malinois in the past and I'm looking into adopting 2 Euro Belgian Shephards

Is there a reason you want to import? If you research carefully there are many good breeders of Euro lines in the US of all working breeds. The only reason I say this is because it's harder to research breeders across the pond and so many that are breeding for export are similar to the breeder that you got your Dobermans from. Lots of litters, little concern about anything but the bottom line $. Small breeders invested in the quality of health, proving their stock in show or trials before making decisions about using them for reproduction is what you should be looking for. There is talk also that exporters will ship out their least desired puppies so the best ones are seen locally. Tread carefully, spend at least a year or two researching breeders.

The Euro Belgian standard allows for mixing of 4 different types of Belgian Shepherd so I'm cautiously optimistic. Maybe the AKC should permit mixing?

I think only Dutch Shepherds and Mals are in the same pool, and only one of the Euro registries allow that. Sorry, I'm on limited time this morning and can't specify the details. It isn't helpful to just mix different types of Belgians, because they are different for very different reasons. The best breeders will keep the highest quality of their breed for reproduction. So it's not that you have to out cross to get better dogs, you just have to find an outstanding breeder who is in it for the love of the breed, not whelping out numbers for income.

This time, a major consideration will be the genetic diversity of the breed.

I'm a big believer in genetic diversity for health, but if you don't have a healthy dog to begin with it doesn't help. You could cross a Doberman with a Boxer for a complete out cross, but both breeds are known for genetic DCM so if anything you will double up on that genetic disease. The problem with Dobermans is that there is a very small gene pool and it's difficult to breed away from one problem like DCM with no solid genetic test to go by and that DCM remains invisible. Which is why I have resorted to looking at longevity in pedigrees and thankfully DPCA has started adding this as a "title" or note on the dogs registered name if they live to be 10+ years.

Although I've decided to move on from this breed, I won't forget your effort.

You are appreciated for you honesty and your willingness to try to understand what's going on. The Doberman is a special, special breed and it's a literal crying shame what their health status as a whole has come to. Please be aware that there are many breeders out there who are producing dogs that live healthy lives to 10 and beyond. Best to you in your future adventures - we are open to all breeds here (I have many pictures and stories here of my housemates Dutch Shepherd!) so you are welcome to share your current Dobes and future search for your next dog.

 

[bluelou]

I apologize for the confusion. I meant I'm interested in Euro lines of Belgians in the US, not importing from Europe.

Regarding longevity, thank you for the info about DPCA. I'll look into this. Could you clarify how you look at longevity? Is there clinical research that indicates longevity is a heritable trait at the pedigree level (i.e. recent sire/dam)? Or, is this anecdotal evidence that you and others find to be useful?

If you can recommend specific breeders for both Belgians and Dobermans I'd sincerely appreciate it. I'd consider adopting Dobermans again given a reputable breeder and perhaps some knowledge of pedigree longevity, as you've suggested.

 

[BGpa]

Lou you might look into the UDC working dog side of things, vs show dog dobes.

Go to a regional meet and talk to people. See breeding rules on FCI Dutch Shepards. You can find working breeders of both dobes and dutchies altho it will take some research.

Great book on the whole dog marketing thing in the US called "The Dog Merchants" by Kim Kavin you can get on Amazon. Interview on Spotify on "The Functional Dog" podcast.

Some very good questions to ask of breeders.
@Ravenbird is correct: not much point in training dobes to compete in the working workd except as a hobby, and what you get from the un-regulated countries of eastern europe is crap.

I found a report by an EU commissioner saying puppy farming and exportation there is largely criminal mafia trafficking.

If you are looking for a good dog, look in the US.

 

[Ravenbird]

Regarding longevity, thank you for the info about DPCA. I'll look into this. Could you clarify how you look at longevity? Is there clinical research that indicates longevity is a heritable trait at the pedigree level (i.e. recent sire/dam)? Or, is this anecdotal evidence that you and others find to be useful?

Anecdotal. If the parents and grandparents didn't die before 9 or 10 of disease, chances are better that you will have a puppy that lives a healthy life as well. The thing with DPCA Dobequest and the Russian Doberbase pedigree sites is that it is voluntary information on COD. So people who want to improve the knowledge and breeding better dogs will say DCM if that's what it was. Or if it's sudden death without a necropsy they could say sudden death. There are accidents and bloat and liver disease that can cause death of young dogs, not just DCM. Cancer generally isn't a COD until 8+, but if a Doberman reaches 9 or 10 that becomes a common COD. Read into it what you will, but if I see a pedigree with a large % dying under age 8, I would want to avoid that line. It's getting harder and harder to find, but they are out there. The other problem is DPCA pedigree database can only be entered if you are a DPCA member or if you know a DPCA member who will enter the information for you. Well, that excludes most of the Doberman owning community. So it's mostly show and sport dogs, so Dobequest is extremely limited by that fact alone. Plus if you drop your membership and have dogs in the database you can't update the info, such as COD, so you come across more dogs than not that don't show date of death, much less the cause. The website is here if you want to explore:

Dobequest:Dog Search Page

When you see LV after a dogs name, that designates 10 years+ Longevity Program | DPCA

Here's a screenshot of my dogs grandsire from Dobequest:




The last thing after his name and titles is LC - 11D - meaning he live to be 11. His COD is listed is listed. Under the sire & dam, you'll see the last letters after the dams name is LC - 12D, meaning she lived to be 12. (if you see a LC- 10L, that means the dog is still living) If you were on Dobequest rather than looking at a screenshot you could click on each name and go to their page to see if COD is listed and/or the date. You could click on Photo to see a picture of this dog, or the Pedigree to look at that. Below the list of progeny (also click to link to each ones page) is heath report - everything shaded in blue you could click on for more information as you can see I did on Cardiac and Hips/elbows for an example. This is VITAL information while researching breeders and pedigrees! I have no idea what other breeds do for specialized breed database like this, but much as Dobequest is missing, this is a super highway of free information. Again, some of the dogs are missing information because the owners/breeders are no longer around, don't bother to update or can't because they are not a member of DPCA.

Hopefully this is helpful to you and at the very least fun to explore the world of pedigrees and info.

 

[JanS]

Please be aware that there are many breeders out there who are producing dogs that live healthy lives to 10 and beyond.

That is very true. Many of our breeders dogs have been 12 or more and many of them are well into their senior years and still doing well. A friend here in town recently lost her female at age 13 and our previous girls dam was between 13 and 14.

 

[strykerdobe]

This disease needs to be caught early (Occult Stage) when very slight changes in the heart is detected. It's come to a point where health testing is a must, starting at 2yrs-5yrs old, with an Echo and 24hr Holter once a year. Then at 5yrs on
still Echo once a year but Holter twice a year. At 5yrs on we do 48hr Holters.
Lots of Doberman owners don't do this and wait for a cough to develop.

Also looking for a Sire and Dam that have longevity.
There is no guarantee Dobes with or without no Genetic markers will get or not get DCM.

 

[BGpa]

I understand there is some parts of DCM thats diet related...dobes are different: grain free does not apply...someone here can chime in...something about taurine?

Anyway...
tons of food discussion here and other webforums, that may ALSO be useful on your future dutchies.

Please keep us updated and "moar pics!" Is the fee for free advice...

 

[Ravenbird]

I understand there is some parts of DCM thats diet related...dobes are different: grain free does not apply...someone here can chime in...something about taurine?

Pulse-family plant protein - any legumes like peas, lentils etc - used to replace meat based protein. Pulses have been shown to reduce absorption of taurine and taurine is essential to heart health. Taurine is naturally available in meat only (not plants), so the higher your dog food is in plant protein the less taurine they get unless it's supplemented by the manufacturer or if you give the dog supplements. The pulse family proteins add insult to injury by making it harder to the absorb taurine that they do get and can cause the heart to struggle. This was what was found after the rash of heart disease in dogs being fed "grain free" that did not have hereditary tendencies to DCM.

So bottom line, for comparison, humans can get heart disease by poor diet but they can also inherit genetic heart disease. Anyone who is diagnosed with genetic heart problems would be a fool to keep a steady diet of greasy burgers, fries & desserts - adding insult to injury. That's my thoughts on feeding a Doberman food that contain any peas, lentils, chickpeas etc. (Soy is not a pulse) Meat protein as a significant percent of total protein is important. So, yes, grain-free very much applies to Dobermans in my opinion.

 

[Shaman Cindy]

So sorry for your losses.

Pulse-family plant protein - any legumes like peas, lentils etc - used to replace meat based protein. Pulses have been shown to reduce absorption of taurine and taurine is essential to heart health. Taurine is naturally available in meat only (not plants), so the higher your dog food is in plant protein the less taurine they get unless it's supplemented by the manufacturer or if you give the dog supplements. The pulse family proteins add insult to injury by making it harder to the absorb taurine that they do get and can cause the heart to struggle. This was what was found after the rash of heart disease in dogs being fed "grain free" that did not have hereditary tendencies to DCM.

So bottom line, for comparison, humans can get heart disease by poor diet but they can also inherit genetic heart disease. Anyone who is diagnosed with genetic heart problems would be a fool to keep a steady diet of greasy burgers, fries & desserts - adding insult to injury. That's my thoughts on feeding a Doberman food that contain any peas, lentils, chickpeas etc. (Soy is not a pulse) Meat protein as a significant percent of total protein is important. So, yes, grain-free very much applies to Dobermans in my opinion.

Dobermans Heart Health

Dobermans can be prone to DCM.
DCM stands for dilated cardiomyopathy, a heart condition that causes the heart's chambers to enlarge and lose their ability to contract.

Diet can be related. I personally Home cook all my dog food. As instructed by the Vet, I crunch a
Centrum vitamin in the batch of food after I cook it. DCM can be caused by a Taurine deficiency.
Chicken livers and shellfish are high in Taurine. What’s bad is beet pulp it decreases Taurine.



It seems to be more prevalent in Euros in the last decade or so, which is personally why I've gone away from them. Even if they were born in the US a lot of breeders in Europe don't do the important health testing before breeding them so many of them imported to the US are affected by it.

Genetic testing from places like Embark only tells you if they have the markers but it's definitely not a replacement for yearly echos and holters that can tell you a ton more.

 

[Shaman Cindy]

Dobermans Heart Health

Dobermans can be prone to DCM.
DCM stands for dilated cardiomyopathy, a heart condition that causes the heart's chambers to enlarge and lose their ability to contract.

Diet can be related. I personally Home cook all my dog food. As instructed by the Vet, I crunch a
Centrum vitamin in the batch of food after I cook it. DCM can be caused by a Taurine deficiency.
Chicken livers and shellfish are high in Taurine. What’s bad is beet pulp it decreases Taurine.