My 15 month old Doberman does not like other male dogs

[AveryArunakul]

Hi, I am new to this forum and found it after doing some online research for my current puppy. I have a 15 month old male (neutered) Doberman. He has been to multiple basic obedience training programs and has always been spoken highly of. Ive had him since he was 8 weeks and have raised him around 4 other dogs ( 2 males, one neutered the other intact, and two females). He has been extremely socialized as I take him just about everywhere with me. He constantly played with other dogs and people growing up. However, about two months ago I started noticing he was becoming very vocal and seemingly frustrated on the leash when other dogs would walk by and not say hi to him. He has now started deciding to pick and choose which dogs he likes for seemingly no reason. There’s specifically one dog he has not met but he hates, if he smells the dog has been near he goes crazy barking and growling with his hackles raised. Sometimes others will walk up with their dog and if he decides he does not like them ( for no reason I can see) he goes crazy barking a growling, sometimes snapping but never actually biting the dog. It seems to be more males and he seems perfectly fine with females. I have taken him to dog parks and he seems fine he recently played with 5 other male dogs and did not react. I have noticed he will correct a dog when needed. He also loves people and plays very well with puppies, even laying down to let them chew on his ears. I am nervous as I live in a pretty populated dog walking area. The behavior seems new and I would like to get on top of it so that he is able to socialize in the future. Just a helicopter mom as he’s my first Doberman and I’m worried people will stereotype him!

 

[Ravenbird]

Dobermans are a breed known for SSA - Same Sex Agression - which usually doesn't show up until between 12 and 24 months of age. Neutered or not, previously socialized and good with other dogs, it doesn't matter. If you have other male dogs in the home you may see fights start to break out or escalate to the point of needing to "crate and rotate". No dogs left free with other dogs of the same sex for life.

It's not something that is easily trained out of them, but good training, impeccable obedience helps you manage your dog on walks. Correct him for staring at or just thinking about growling or lunging at other dogs. Dog parks should be completely off the list. It's a self-rewarding behavior and once your dog bullies or dominates another dog a few times it encourages him to do it again and again.

Best of luck and welcome to DCF! Use the Search button for SSA and you will find many conversations about it here.

 

[JanS]

I don't have anything to add to the above post but I just wanted to say welcome. We'd love to see some photos of your dog.

 

[AveryArunakul]

I don't have anything to add to the above post but I just wanted to say welcome. We'd love to see some photos of your dog.

Here he is!

 

[JanS]

He's a very handsome boy!

 

[AveryArunakul]

Dobermans are a breed known for SSA - Same Sex Agression - which usually doesn't show up until between 12 and 24 months of age. Neutered or not, previously socialized and good with other dogs, it doesn't matter. If you have other male dogs in the home you may see fights start to break out or escalate to the point of needing to "crate and rotate". No dogs left free with other dogs of the same sex for life.

It's not something that is easily trained out of them, but good training, impeccable obedience helps you manage your dog on walks. Correct him for staring at or just thinking about growling or lunging at other dogs. Dog parks should be completely off the list. It's a self-rewarding behavior and once your dog bullies or dominates another dog a few times it encourages him to do it again and again.

Best of luck and welcome to DCF! Use the Search button for SSA and you will find many conversations about it here.

Thank you for your response! Is there a possibility of him having male dog friends? Such as being able to go on walks with other dogs or is that not something I should let him do? His reaction seems to be mainly when I’m near the situation. Is it possible I could promote positive interactions when meeting other male dogs, such as starting off slow for short periods of time when meeting new dogs?

 

[Ravenbird]

Thank you for your response! Is there a possibility of him having male dog friends? Such as being able to go on walks with other dogs

You certainly can walk with other dogs. "almost always" the aggression is in their own home/yard with dogs they live with or loose play like a dog park where they make their own decisions. Walks or hikes on leash with friends should be fine, IF your dog respects you, the collar, the leash etc. and understands he doesn't make his own choices when you're in control. Subtle dog language can and should be learned so you can read your dog and prevent him from getting amped up over another dog.

Going together with a friend in the same direction on a walk is different than a dog coming toward you on a sidewalk. How is his obedience? Does he know "leave it"? If you say no and pop the leash to get his attention back to you does that work or does he ignore you and continue to escalate? These are things that matter and the sooner he understands that he cannot growl, lunge, bark at other dogs for any reason, the easier it will be to have a normal routine.

His reaction seems to be mainly when I’m near the situation. Is it possible I could promote positive interactions when meeting other male dogs, such as starting off slow for short periods of time when meeting new dogs?

If he is using you as a resource guarding object that complicates things and absolutely should not be allowed. No, promoting of meeting other male dogs or any dogs. Dogs don't need dog friends, they need you to be their leader. They need to understand that you control the situation and they need to look to you for direction. He needs to learn that walks are with you and other dog/person going with you is not their business.

 

[Cferg]

I’m worried people will stereotype him!

There are stereotypes for a reason….. just sayin

Have you read the history of the Doberman it’s pretty interesting.

 

[Katyusharocket]

What's his name? He is handsome!

Thank you for your response! Is there a possibility of him having male dog friends? Such as being able to go on walks with other dogs or is that not something I should let him do? His reaction seems to be mainly when I’m near the situation. Is it possible I could promote positive interactions when meeting other male dogs, such as starting off slow for short periods of time when meeting new dogs

This is an incredibly thoughtful question in my humble opinion.

I think you could try. What I wouldn't do, based on this:

There’s specifically one dog he has not met but he hates, if he smells the dog has been near he goes crazy barking and growling with his hackles raised.

I would under no circumstances try this with that dog.

. I have taken him to dog parks and he seems fine he recently played with 5 other male dogs and did not react.

I am one of the only users here who is a fan of my dobermans playing at any dog park. With that being said, I don't think dog park is the place for this kind of training experiment. If he gets to the level you would like to see in other dog friendly places, okay, try the park, perhaps. You are right next to him, so you will see the results better than anyone, I would just urge caution bringing him to the dog park (even after seeing any success with this training). I have always thought that the dog park is just for play, for whatever they enjoy. Not that lessons cant be taught there, but it's mostly for them to enjoy.

What I would do:

Find another dog parent who isn't judging by the breed and make sure they know everything you have been seeing and what your goals are.
Also, make sure that dog parent and you both have your dogs well under control, in a well controlled, isolated environment. Just you guys alone with the person and dog parent who is on board.

Also (and by your question, I think you know this), don't force anything. Let it be or not be.

I should make the disclaimer: I am an unreasonable optimist and I have a total of 4 Dobie years with 2 female Dobermans combined. I should not be considered experienced. I am on the lookout for same sex aggression in my own home having 2 females, so, real new at this. But, given the right circumstances, I could see myself trying this kind of training, and also see myself backing down real quick if there was unclarity in the results.

I see @Ravenbird replied here while I was writing and makes great points too.

I admire your drive for change through training, to be honest.

 

[Rits]

Absolutely no dog parks for male dobermans. Any dobermans really. But especially males. It isn't something you are going to train out of him. You can train him to behave and listen to you on leash so that you can continue on your walk...but off leash with another male is waiting for a disaster to happen. And a male doberman fully mature is big and incredibly strong. Not only are the dogs going to get hurt or worse, the people trying to break up the fight likely will too...

Nothing wrong with walking with a friend while both dogs are on leash at your side with a person between them. You may have to walk with a little room between you until the dogs learn to ignore one other.

The breed is a personal protector. They weren't made to live and work together in packs like hunting dogs.

 

[Two Dobes]

Great info here for you....and I agree that you can walk together with another male, BOTH on leash, and they don't need to 'say hello' to one another before you head off on your walk, or even after. It is an exercise for him to accept walking with another male, period. As said; with a person between...hopefully he will become acustomed to walking this way with you, and eventually not be bothered that your friend's dog is along as well.

 

[BGpa]

Hi, I am new to this forum and found it after doing some online research for my current puppy. I have a 15 month old male (neutered) Doberman. He has been to multiple basic obedience training programs and has always been spoken highly of. Ive had him since he was 8 weeks and have raised him around 4 other dogs ( 2 males, one neutered the other intact, and two females). He has been extremely socialized as I take him just about everywhere with me. He constantly played with other dogs and people growing up. However, about two months ago I started noticing he was becoming very vocal and seemingly frustrated on the leash when other dogs would walk by and not say hi to him. He has now started deciding to pick and choose which dogs he likes for seemingly no reason. There’s specifically one dog he has not met but he hates, if he smells the dog has been near he goes crazy barking and growling with his hackles raised. Sometimes others will walk up with their dog and if he decides he does not like them ( for no reason I can see) he goes crazy barking a growling, sometimes snapping but never actually biting the dog. It seems to be more males and he seems perfectly fine with females. I have taken him to dog parks and he seems fine he recently played with 5 other male dogs and did not react. I have noticed he will correct a dog when needed. He also loves people and plays very well with puppies, even laying down to let them chew on his ears. I am nervous as I live in a pretty populated dog walking area. The behavior seems new and I would like to get on top of it so that he is able to socialize in the future. Just a helicopter mom as he’s my first Doberman and I’m worried people will stereotype him!

First, kudos and huge props for your training and commitment. You are not done until they mature and still must train for maintenance of your desired daily state in your life.
Some other people WILL stereotype him; "scary big black dog privilege". Thats not your problem, as its out of your control. Ignore them.

Your young male dobe is exactly doing what the breed was made for. Plus male dominance as in all breeds some more some less. Neutering will reduce testosterone but wont eliminate the inherited behavior. I read some say never cut your male; for better longer health.

He is just now coming into his maturity which I read is 2 years for females, 3 for males. So he is a teenager trsting you and posturing to other males, as in normal as he is changing into an adult. So good job doing your homework and this is precisely why you want to capture the training opportunity for you both.

Keep socializing, check out the AKC Canine Good Citizen training- tons of info on their website, and look for AKC certified trainers doing classes in your area, pet stores, breed clubs.

"Anxiety goes doen the leash" is a saying I've read bymany trainers.
So, The more you train that out in you by the confidence gained in training and EVERY DAY practice, the less he will model it himself.

Just avoid the places for now where the hated bad dog goes and focus on YOUR control with calm confidence in joint training.
Thats in YOUR control.

 

[AveryArunakul]

You certainly can walk with other dogs. "almost always" the aggression is in their own home/yard with dogs they live with or loose play like a dog park where they make their own decisions. Walks or hikes on leash with friends should be fine, IF your dog respects you, the collar, the leash etc. and understands he doesn't make his own choices when you're in control. Subtle dog language can and should be learned so you can read your dog and prevent him from getting amped up over another dog.

Going together with a friend in the same direction on a walk is different than a dog coming toward you on a sidewalk. How is his obedience? Does he know "leave it"? If you say no and pop the leash to get his attention back to you does that work or does he ignore you and continue to escalate? These are things that matter and the sooner he understands that he cannot growl, lunge, bark at other dogs for any reason, the easier it will be to have a normal routine.


If he is using you as a resource guarding object that complicates things and absolutely should not be allowed. No, promoting of meeting other male dogs or any dogs. Dogs don't need dog friends, they need you to be their leader. They need to understand that you control the situation and they need to look to you for direction. He needs to learn that walks are with you and other dog/person going with you is not their business.

Thank you for the help!!! I will focus on working with leash obedience, mainly having him focus on me, before I even attempt to walk with friends. However, we will be doing no off leash playing just to guarantee safety of everyone. I have slowly been working on his leash skills and he’s been getting better, walking yesterday he saw multiple dogs and had 0 reaction even when being barked at first. Slight improvement which I’m excited to see!!!

 

[AveryArunakul]

What's his name? He is handsome

His name is kylo!! He’s definitely the most loving dog I’ve ever met!

 

[AveryArunakul]

I would under no circumstances try this with that dog.

Most definitely not, I go out of my way to avoid that other dog at all costs. Since kylo has personally deemed him a “bad vibe” we just keep a distance

 

[AveryArunakul]

I admire your drive for change through training, to be honest.

We definitely have a special connection! I will do whatever it takes to make sure he is happy and healthy even if that means forfeiting certain hopes of him being able to hang with all his doggy friends. I am also hopelessly optimistic and have high hopes for him. He is insanely smart and very in tune with both people and his environment so I do have faith for improvement. However, reading everything about SSA made me worried and led me to this forum. I am hoping I’m just an overbearing parent and reading way too much into his actions but I want to make sure all precautions are taken no matter what!

 

[AveryArunakul]

Absolutely no dog parks for male dobermans. Any dobermans really. But especially males. It isn't something you are going to train out of him. You can train him to behave and listen to you on leash so that you can continue on your walk...but off leash with another male is waiting for a disaster to happen. And a male doberman fully mature is big and incredibly strong. Not only are the dogs going to get hurt or worse, the people trying to break up the fight likely will too...

Nothing wrong with walking with a friend while both dogs are on leash at your side with a person between them. You may have to walk with a little room between you until the dogs learn to ignore one other.

The breed is a personal protector. They weren't made to live and work together in packs like hunting dogs.

I will be only doing leash walking and no off leash playing to ensure safety! We do currently walk with another male dog and have run 5ks with them with no issue but I know he is still maturing and this can change so I will continue to monitor his behavior to prevent any problems.

 

[AveryArunakul]

Great info here for you....and I agree that you can walk together with another male, BOTH on leash, and they don't need to 'say hello' to one another before you head off on your walk, or even after. It is an exercise for him to accept walking with another male, period. As said; with a person between...hopefully he will become acustomed to walking this way with you, and eventually not be bothered that your friend's dog is along as well.

We currently walk with a friend and her male dog and he does great! We have even run a 5k with them. However, I plan to follow this advice if I decide to begin walking with anyone new. Only on leash, no off leash playing to prevent anything from happening.

 

[AveryArunakul]

If he is using you as a resource guarding object that complicates things and absolutely should not be allowed. No, promoting of meeting other male dogs or any dogs. Dogs don't need dog friends, they need you to be their leader. They need to understand that you control the situation and they need to look to you for direction. He needs to learn that walks are with you and other dog/person going with you is not their business.

If it was resource guarding would his behavior occur with people as well or could it be only dogs?

 

[AveryArunakul]

First, kudos and huge props for your training and commitment. You are not done until they mature and still must train for maintenance of your desired daily state in your life.

Thank you!! I have a lot of faith in him. I swear he is the most loving dog I’ve ever met, very sweet and loves anyone he’s met. I am being very cautious when it comes to the possibility of SSA. I have possibly read way too much into SSA and it has freaked me out into having made a post on the forum for all the advice I can get lol. Thank you for the resource on socialization I will definitely look into it. For now we will stick to only on leash around other dogs to prevent anything from occurring. I do believe I am more worried about his reaction to things than he is because he is my baby. I will be working on his leash manners and continue his everyday training. Hopefully by the age of 3 I can better understand where he stands with other dogs.