Moving/Distance Commands

[Doberman Gang]

Here we are doing distance commands. I trained this very similar to what @Doberman Gang explained:

Excellent, yes I also start with a platform to train most all exercises. Puppies will also be started on a platform to train everything. Most of the ones I use are just a skid with plywood and outdoor carpet on them but I use what I get for free

 

[Ravenbird]

Most of the ones I use are just a skid with plywood and outdoor carpet on them but I use what I get for free

Haha, me too. This was at the club in AZ that I try to go to once a month or so. This is actually one of the exercises in Obedience/Dexterity for the RH1(SAR) that I will trial in Feb. - The RH is turning out to be a lot of fun (((even tho nothing is as fun as protection ))). The dexterity exercises are like Agility but in control and with strict commands. So yes, that table is the regulation height & you have to send them to it. This was at training and there were about 8 - 10 people watching us. Asha should have been looking at me, but it's kind of funny how she was doing what I asked but keeping her eye on the crowd.

 

[Ravenbird]

@Gpcoguy - if you haven't used a target or touch pad, that's how I started the sending away. @Doberman Gang made an excellent point about starting with a send away rather than a recall. And talking about budgets: I bought a cheap thin rubber doormat from Walmart (less than $5) and cut it in half so I have 2 floppy rubber mats about 15" square. I put it on the ground with a bit of food or a treat with Asha watching so she knows the food is there, then heel away from it about 10 feet, turn around and sit, then say go! - pointing that direction. She should run right to it. Then start adding a down at the mat. Then start adding distance. A table works good for distance commands practice - put Rose on a table (it makes it clear to not come to you) to do sits/downs/stands and then get further and further away to tell her what to do. That may help the commands when in motion. Anyway hope that gives you some fun ideas to get started. I learned most of my training from Dave Kroyer online training since I don't have a good local teacher. My biggest takeaway is do little pieces, perfect them, then start putting them together. Get the performance first, then add duration, distance and distractions. Tons of rewards and make if fun!

 

[Doberman Gang]

Here is a video of one of my classes. Everything is taught to go to a foot target. In this case I use rubber horse buckets, tractor supply sells them fairly cheap. Everyone in my class are at different levels so exercise will vary depending on the level of the dog and handler. You see my Wife and her poodle, on the broad jump he just circles it and then comes front. The touch pad is to teach him to jump straight and then thru muscle memory he will continue to jump straight and circle before returning to front. He doesn’t even have touch pads out now but still does the jump and circle. I have also taught this using a cone. The dog jumps goes around the cone and returns. Both work really well. The touch pad just teaches things in a more stable way.

 

[Ravenbird]

Here is a video of one of my classes.

I wish every town had a dog training place like this. It's what the dog world needs.

Truly, this online stuff is so hard because so much is left out, including this very thread trying to explain how to train the down in motion. So many hundreds of ways, all correct, but so much left out. What I've found working on my own is that mistakes really stink when you don't realize for a long time that you even made a mistake. Then having to go back to erase that. A live class with a good teacher is priceless. They will stop you midstream and not let you make the whole mistake (much less building on that mistake for weeks at home alone). Thanks for sharing. Those of us working alone or with online training need all the help we can get.

 

[Doberman Gang]

I wish every town had a dog training place like this. It's what the dog world needs.

Truly, this online stuff is so hard because so much is left out, including this very thread trying to explain how to train the down in motion. So many hundreds of ways, all correct, but so much left out. What I've found working on my own is that mistakes really stink when you don't realize for a long time that you even made a mistake. Then having to go back to erase that. A live class with a good teacher is priceless. They will stop you midstream and not let you make the whole mistake (much less building on that mistake for weeks at home alone). Thanks for sharing. Those of us working alone or with online training need all the help we can get.

It’s hard, because every dog is different, it helps having a trainer that can read the dog to know where to go with the training. Basics can be leaned from video but when a problem arises you need someone who can see the problem first hand.

 

[Doberman Gang]

Best down on send out I have seen. I was in the booth with Waine during this broadcast.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02DXQNR1roMY6RJveEG49v52VYumu7EDBvUYMm4Vv6LJANXJFw8oTbQWdGiaoFmXRel&id=100008703373018

 

[Ravenbird]

Best down on send out I have seen. I was in the booth with Waine during this broadcast.

I saw that yesterday - what a freakin' send out!!!

I was trying to figure out how you can get a video off of FB if it's not on youtube? If someone isn't on FB they can't see that link you posted. ... And did you see that Dobe Anubus in PSA2??? I'd love to get that video on here in the Protection Work treads for everyone to see. It blew me away.

 

[Kswoodssue]

I would suggest teach the down or sit from a distance.
1) leave dog in a stable position (stand,sit or down).
2) move a few paces away turn and ask for a new position. Build your distance doing this changing the positions you leave them in and what you ask for. Once solid doing these you can recall and ask for a new position.
The problem with asking for a sit or down when playing ball is, they already have the reward and are returning to you for more fun. If you are not careful you can mess up your dog coming back to you. They have the toy and you don’t want them to stop bringing it back.
If anything work towards an interruption going to the toy. Ask for a sit or down as they are going to the ball. When they sit/down you can immediately release them to continue or recall them back to you where you have a second ball to reward with.

Wow! Nothing short of a sledgehammer would stop Sasha when she is after her frisbe!!! That would be her ultimate discipline!

 

[Doberman Gang]

I saw that yesterday - what a freakin' send out!!!

I was trying to figure out how you can get a video off of FB if it's not on youtube? If someone isn't on FB they can't see that link you posted. ... And did you see that Dobe Anubus in PSA2??? I'd love to get that video on here in the Protection Work treads for everyone to see. It blew me away.

No I wasn’t there but I can see if Brandi or Savannah have it they can share with me.

 

[Ravenbird]

No I wasn’t there but I can see if Brandi or Savannah have it they can share with me.

I put the FB video over on the protection sports page.

 

[Ravenbird]

Wow! Nothing short of a sledgehammer would stop Sasha when she is after her frisbe!!! That would be her ultimate discipline!

What I learned about training these dogs is that when the ultimate reward/toy is offered as the prize, the training goes into overdrive! Start simple like heeling by the frisbee on the ground making her pay attention to you. When she passes it while looking at you, release her to go get it and play/throw it for her. Suddenly they want to do anything for you because the frisbee is the reward, not the given free exercise thing.

 

[Gpcoguy]

Best down on send out I have seen. I was in the booth with Waine during this broadcast.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02DXQNR1roMY6RJveEG49v52VYumu7EDBvUYMm4Vv6LJANXJFw8oTbQWdGiaoFmXRel&id=100008703373018

That's impressive!

 

[Doberman Gang]

What I learned about training these dogs is that when the ultimate reward/toy is offered as the prize, the training goes into overdrive! Start simple like heeling by the frisbee on the ground making her pay attention to you. When she passes it while looking at you, release her to go get it and play/throw it for her. Suddenly they want to do anything for you because the frisbee is the reward, not the given free exercise thing.

This video is a prime example of interruption to the reward. The dog must down before getting the reward at the end of the field, the ultimate prize being back with the handler. That us why the dog slides to face the handler.

 

[Ravenbird]

Best down on send out I have seen

Question - I started this send out exercise last spring, but it wasn't going well trying to transition off the reward and to the down. Besides that I got sidetracked into other things, so never worked on it too seriously. If I see things not working like I imagine, I just do a full stop so I don't mess things up further.
Asha will go out full speed for the ball (hanging on a stick in the distance) or if I put food on a touch pad by the stick. I was told to get the speed and drive going away before asking for the down. So we've got that. I tried a couple of ways to begin the down on the send away - 1, with the known reward there - she goes full out and gets it and then downs but not before reaching the reward, so reward is overriding the command. I don't especially want to use an e-collar for this because I saw one dog that would never send out because of that method. Could have been done wrong, could have been a weak dog anyway, but I don't want to chance a misunderstanding with the e-collar. 2, remove the reward and she moves out slowly, and keeps turning to look at me - in other words, no drive to send out. I asked at the club and they said send out with reward visible and pair with the Vorous command over & over & over, then start removing the reward and will send out with drive before asking for anything else. Send-out is one of those exercises that I hesitate to work on without guidance because teaching it wrong would be extremely hard to un-train & re-do.

 

[Ravenbird]

This looks like a good method for send out! It's making more sense to me now.

 

[Kaiser2016]

Never tried teaching "bacuk up"
How did you do that?

I taught back up by accident when Kaiser was a young pup. He'd come running to me for a treat knowing he had to sit in front of me to receive it, but would often place his paw on top of my foot, so I bent my knee towards him (in pain) and said back up. He suddenly backed up but stayed in a sit position. So I continued to step into him and he kept backing up. It's a great little trick. When he runs out of room to back up, he'll start turning in a circle

 

[Doberman Gang]

This looks like a good method for send out! It's making more sense to me now.

There are lots of different ways to teach this. I like and do some of the things he talks about. We teach full distance from day one. We will have sone one hold the dog back while the handler runs down with the toy to hang it. Occasionally the handler will turn and swing the ball and say the dogs name. Person holding dog will help amp the dog by patting the dog on the side and asking do you want your toy. Handler hangs toy and moves back towards the dog. Once you are 10-15 feet from the toy, handler faces side of field not the dog. (Similar to picture we give teaching blinds) call the, just as the dog approaches turn and say Vorous while pointing at the toy. Praise dog while encouraging the dog to bring you the toy to play. Repeat over and o er. Distance from toy will vary but each time you work your way back to the dog. Eventually you will be sending the dog standing next to them. The dog goes full field every time so muscle memory is the entire field. Once this is achieved, we can mark, send from heeling, I also use hanging the dumbbell for a cue the sendout is next.
Once I am at this point my send out training day will just be a pile of balls at the end of the field. I hang the dumbbell each time giving my cue, then send my dog to go get a ball. Over and over always stopping with a couple of balls at the end of the field. Now my dog will always believe there are balls there even when he can’t see them.
Teaching the down is a separate exercise, I do it off the center of the field while playing ball. The center of the field must always be rewarding, if I need corrections to teach interruption to the reward I don’t want to mess up the send out by using pressure. Send out is always safe and fun with a toy at the end, followed by play with you.
When teaching the down you must randomly reward, sometimes you can release the dog to get the reward it was chasing, sometimes you can present a reward for them to come back to you to play, sometimes the dog will stay down until I bring the reward to them. Randomly rewarding this way, you can reassure the dog will stay in a down waiting for you or your release command. Once this is achieved I will introduce it occasionally during a send out to proof just before a trial. After I trial, I will go back to of field downs and multiple balls at the end of the field during the sendout.

 

[Ravenbird]

There are lots of different ways to teach this.

I'm glad now that I quit working on this when I did. It's so easy to mess them up. I'll restart this training with a better plan pretty soon.

The multiple balls that are always there makes WAY more sense than removing it altogether and the down training with corrections as needed on a separate area than the send out makes perfect sense. I think the dog I saw that did terrible send outs and I was told that it was because mis-use of e-collar (not by the handler, but someone standing with me watching). Now I'm thinking if they'd needed that correction to down the dog but had never paired it with the send out, perhaps it would have been a different outcome? The dog was anticipating the send out with downs & corrections more than the fun of getting the toy. As you pointed out, they should go out with joy thinking of the reward at the end, but be totally obedient to drop down when asked.

Thanks for the input, it's all very helpful. I don't have help to hold the dog, but I'm already sending her from a good distance so I don't think I need that part ... how many paces is the full field distance?? I don't think distance will be a challenge, so when I start back on this I'll pace of the approximate distance. My other problem is her eagerness so I'm using a tab on the prong to keep her at heel. If I even begin to lean forward she'll take off. She leaks (barks or squeals) and wants to get ahead in anticipation of the send, when she knows the send is coming. I've tried heeling in circles or about turns to heel away from the ball, but seems to amp her up more. Obviously, I need all the help I can get, but your info and that video have given me a better plan.

 

[Doberman Gang]

I'm glad now that I quit working on this when I did. It's so easy to mess them up. I'll restart this training with a better plan pretty soon.

The multiple balls that are always there makes WAY more sense than removing it altogether and the down training with corrections as needed on a separate area than the send out makes perfect sense. I think the dog I saw that did terrible send outs and I was told that it was because mis-use of e-collar (not by the handler, but someone standing with me watching). Now I'm thinking if they'd needed that correction to down the dog but had never paired it with the send out, perhaps it would have been a different outcome? The dog was anticipating the send out with downs & corrections more than the fun of getting the toy. As you pointed out, they should go out with joy thinking of the reward at the end, but be totally obedient to drop down when asked.

Thanks for the input, it's all very helpful. I don't have help to hold the dog, but I'm already sending her from a good distance so I don't think I need that part ... how many paces is the full field distance?? I don't think distance will be a challenge, so when I start back on this I'll pace of the approximate distance. My other problem is her eagerness so I'm using a tab on the prong to keep her at heel. If I even begin to lean forward she'll take off. She leaks (barks or squeals) and wants to get ahead in anticipation of the send, when she knows the send is coming. I've tried heeling in circles or about turns to heel away from the ball, but seems to amp her up more. Obviously, I need all the help I can get, but your info and that video have given me a better plan.

I have trained it different ways for different dogs. I have done send to a touch pad, send to a pole or cone snd have them go around it and come back. These methods will also work but I still like teaching full field from day one, it makes the most sense. If she is forging during heel go back to stationary sends asking for attention first then send, one step at a time. Sometimes I will bring my dog out, hang a ball then just work on the heeling routine. I still have a ball to reward with. The idea is o can produce a ball and play at anytime or I can send you to go get your ball. My dog still must be obedient during heeling