Meeting Puppy Exercise Needs in a Concrete Jungle

[Brevig]

I have a now 6 month old Doberman puppy (for 3 months) living in an apartment in downtown Siem Reap, Cambodia.

2 months ago I bought a bike leash and have been using that to help with exercise requirements. A week afterwards I read that running a puppy on a bike is bad for their bone formation. I switched my routine so that when we go on rides we go at HER pace, often a walk at a brisk pace (which is painfully slow to ride at, hehe), and then with intermittent sprints. Our rides are 1-2 miles a time, and she controls the pace. However, this is ALL on paved roads (though I try to stay at the side so she can run on dirt/grass as much as possible).

Also, I play fetch with her inside of our gated apartment area (it's a quadroplex and home inside nearly an acre of land, but again, nearly all paved), and also playing tug of war which involves her jumping for the tug toy on a hard surface. Our apartment has no carpet, 100% tile.

I've seen posts online and on Facebook that saying any jumping/running on hard surfaces is bad for her bones and will cause problems in adulthood. Even though she is playing at her own pace. These same posts say to just take her on walks, which is ridiculous. There is NO WAY she can get 10% of her exercise needs on a walk, and also it's not natural (yes, forcing a dog to run beside a bike isn't natural play for a puppy, but neither is it natural to prevent them from running and jumping, which is what it seems is the predominant opinion I've run into).

So I'm very confused about what I should do. She is VERY high energy (which I love, and can't wait until she is 18+ months and we can do some longer rides at a faster pace). If I just go on walks, even if they are 3+ miles at a time, she'll come home as hyper as we left.

What can I do? What is a realistic solution for my situation?

I talked to my vet about it, the best vet in Siem Reap (but still a bit of a novice in my mind, but I'm American so I have high expectations). My vet said it's fine about the running on paved surfaces because we give her calcium supplements (also to help with her ear formation from the cropping). But then also, I just today read online that supplements actually worsten the whole problem of bones overdeveloping at a young age and causing problems in the long run.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Like Cat Stevens said, "I love my Dog as much as I love you", and I'm willing to move outside of the city if that's the last option, but it would be a HUGE hardship to me to do it.

WHAT CAN I DO?

 

[Lizbeli]

I totally get your situation. I was worried about exercising my boy at that age. He is only 1yrs old right now and I am still waiting to hook him up to my bike.

Below is my opinion based on the research I did when I had the same questions:

Do not give your puppy calcium supplements. Vitamin C helps with cartilage formation for her cropped ears (not calcium). I would not be running your pup on a bike at this age. You might be going at a slower pace but I believe it is still considered forced exercise and I would wait until she is fully developed. Instead, find a park with grass or an enclosed area where she can play some tug or ball. Even if you have a small area where you can do some light “flirt pole” sessions. Incorporate obedience to tire her brain while out on walks or playing. Make her work!

 

[Tropicalbri's]

I don’t know the square footage of your living room or if you are a minimalist with furniture and Knick knacks but if you can move furniture to the walls and clear an area and place a large padded back rug on the tile and do a bit of flirt poling in the house. I must add I am not a fan of high physical activity in the house because I am not a minimalist.
My two can create havoc inside in a space of seconds. Lol

With one puppy you should be able to tire her out through mental games and exercises inside. The rug would be useful so she has paw grip to chase around with the flirt pole. Believe me a 5-10 minute session with a flirt pole would tire mine out for a bit. Both mine are high energy, high drive but my male is exceptionally so. I started their training immediately when they came home. I would hand feed most of their food by having them work for it, like sit, down, stay, wait, shake, lay on their sides. I combined hand signals with verbal commands.

We did hide the treats for them to find.
I would place treats on their nose and make them hold the position until the release command and they learned to flip it and catch it.

Is there any way you could drive out of the city a few times a week and let her run around in a grassy area to play and work on her recall with a long line attached to her?
Is there any safe water sources, lakes, streams, pools that she could learn to swim in?
I would make sure the water source does not have any algae or surface scum because that is highly toxic, it must be a clean water source.

I won’t do dog parks because the dangers of your dog getting attacked or harmed is pretty high, not to mention getting sick from other dogs.
I would be cautious about allowing her around areas where other dogs have been until she has completed all her vaccines.

Drop the calcium (not good for a fast growing Dobie). Use Vitamin C instead.
If you can’t get a good powdered Vit C only, then find one that does not have all the bioflavonoids in it. I think Ester C is what many use.
I get mine from Nature’s Farmacy for pets but it’s a human grade.

To DCF

 

[Tropicalbri's]

I just re read your post and saw she is 6mo. Oh boy, she is starting her Doberteens and her activity level and shenanigans are going to be front and center. I don’t envy you that time period but it’s a great training and bonding time.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Welcome!

Yes, this limitation due to the long-bone formation is a tough one. I didn't know about it with my first Doberman and I just let him, and had him, do whatever. He had no joint or limb problems by age 8 1/2 when he died. Of course that means little, as it's just one piece of anecdotal evidence. With my second, and then my third Doberman, I didn't faithfully follow the limitations. Like you, I just needed them to get some energy out! 2nd Dobe had no joint or limb issues by the time he died at 8 1/4 yrs. 3rd is now about 5 1/2 yrs. and no issues.

It should be noted that I have not neutered any of the three of the Dobermans I've had. There is research that shows that dogs need their natural hormones not only when growing, but throughout life. So especially early-neutering (that is pushed by so many people, vets included) is bad for their joints and bones. It can make a dog grow inordinately tall and lanky, and it can cause joints to be vulnerable to injury. So you're ahead of the game if you keep this in mind.

I did not do running beside a bike with my most recent two Dobes when they were in that restricted age zone, but I did go for runs with them. We're talking runs of maybe 1.5 - 2 miles or somewhat more that included a few stops at stop lights an for him to poop.

See, this is a fuzzy area for me: Is there that much difference between a dog willingly running beside the owner, and a dog running (perhaps very vigorously and fast, and making quick turns and stops) free in a grassy or dirt area? I can see the point regarding concrete or asphalt vs. grass or dirt, yes. In fact, I've heard people who do a lot of running claim that concrete is harder on the feet and joints than asphalt – so they try to run in the street rather than on the sidewalks.

So, what is one to do? As I said, it's a tough situation.

One thing I have done in terms of indoor exercise is train them to get up on their hind legs and walk toward me. This usually is in the form of hopping, so I suppose this would be a no-no too; but it's a hard trick for them to learn, so maybe by the time they do much hopping toward you they will be near the 18 month mark anyway. At any rate, I believe it's an excellent indoor exercise for not only the hind legs but the back as well. My first Dobe, I taught to spin circles while hopping to me on his hind legs from across a room. (He may or may not have been holding a can of beer he had gotten from the fridge).

 

[Brevig]

@Lizbeli, Thank you SOO much for your quick and detailed response. I actually have been out of town for 7 days and came back today and after 7 hours of playing fetch and tug of war and letting her roam the grounds she was not yet tired so I took her on a bike ride (as I had to go to the store anyways) and came back and saw your post.

I do go VERY slow over half the ride (where she can comfortably stop and poop and I can stop before she gets yanked around, so almost like a walk, but with some sprints). 1 thing I didn't mention before is here we have ALOT of street dogs (if you could even call them dogs, mangy muts at best, haha), that chase her, so basically those are our "sprint" times. I do think that doing the bike is good training for the future (and also I stop during our trips many times to make her sit/down), but I will make the distance much less, like 1/4 mile, just so she doesn't forget the rules of running/sitting/staying beside a bike (staying I quickly learned was critical).

Also, 1 other note, I've done the same route with my friend riding in front of me, and she will run full speed the WHOLE way and even pull my bike as if I was riding a sleigh (I won't do that anymore).

Thank you SOOO much for your input on Calcium supplements. I literally gave the last pill in our box today, so you really saved me. For Vitamin C, I can't pick the brand (as I'm in Cambodia, and I already tried shipping supplements via Amazon and they get stuck in customs). I can make sure no bioflavonoids, finding a local human brand without it, but what dosage do you recommend?

Actually, I've been worried for a couple weeks and have reduced our bike trips from 2-3x a day to every couple days and doing tug/fetch/etc instead. But it's always been on hard surfaces. Is that something I should worry about, or do you think I'm over thinking it? Nearest grass park is about 3/4 a mile away, and I don't have a car (which is crazy to have one here), but I will have a dog cart for my bike in another 1-2 weeks and could take here there without her having to run beside me to get there (and not having to hire a ride).

 

[Lizbeli]

As far as dosage I believe I was feeding 500mg a day when I was still posting my boys ears. But @Tropicalbri's would probably have a better recommendation. She is a great source of anything medical related

Running on pavement is something I am personally avoiding until at least 18ths old. But I am a worry wart. That said, I'm not sure there is a real study or proof that running on hard surfaces is bad. My breeder even told me it would be a good idea to put carpet down on my hardwoods as my pup grew to help with traction and add padding while he romped around inside.

There are probably a ton of people who started running on pavement with their young pups and never had an issue. I just try to minimize potential problems- hence me being a little bit of a worry wart. That would be cool to see a little dobie riding in a cart behind your bike haha! We need pics of that please!

 

[Brevig]

@Tropicalibri
I guess I do live as a minimalist (especially considering I'm in a foreign country so not having all my stuff). My apartment has a good setup where I have a straight shot from living room to kitchen that is nearly 40 feet long (and most times 10+ feet wide except from 1 spot where the couch sticks out and is only about 4 feet). I smoke, but not in the house, but my habit is to stand outside the door smoking and throw her Kong Chew toy to the other door, giving her a decent run. I do that at night, and then during the daytime outside she has an even longer run space (and MUCH wider). However, 100% is hard surface.

I could do a rug for about half of it (as other half is couch sticking out and kitchen, and won't work), and thought already to do that as she is developing calluses from plopping on the floor too much (even though her official sleeping spot is a nice large cushion). Actually, I think she would really like that for tug and jumping as she can get a grip, plus she learned quickly not to jump crazy because it hurts if she falls on her side.

So, FOR SURE, I will get the rug, but do you think I should limit her outside fetch play (which is easier for me during the daytime), that or if doing outside fetch find a place to do it at not on hard surfaces?

My girl owns land about 30 miles outside of the city (over an acre) and I've been taking her there most weekends (where she goes crazy chasing chickens, hehe). I have a 30 foot rope I use for recall, and she is getting good at it (even recalling 30-40 feet without the rope).

Water is a great idea and not sure why I didn't think about it sooner (I know how it tires dogs out quickly). There is a good place, just a bit far (about 7 miles), but I could do it once or twice mid week to supplement our weekends outside the city. Any water source closer is not very clean.

There are 0 dog parks in Cambodia, but there are many parks. Because of my work (website developer), I'm up all night working with my clients in the US, so even though the parks are technically off limits for dogs, I think I can give the night guard maybe a dollar or less a visit and as long as I clean the poop (their concern, as locals would NEVER pick up the poop) they will let me, and it's not too far (less than half a mile).

For Vitamin C, what daily dosage do you recommend (I'll find a human grade one that doesn't have vitamin C).

 

[Tropicalbri's]

Also, 1 other note, I've done the same route with my friend riding in front of me, and she will run full speed the WHOLE way and even pull my bike as if I was riding a sleigh (I won't do that anymore).

Just wait till she is old enough to do the speed biking.
I put a dog bike lead on my bike. It attaches to the rear wheel of the bike, this way you are hands free of a leash and it makes it almost impossible to be pulled over.
I started training my two with it and let me tell you my male had me going over 28mph. No way I could pedal the bike. I taught him which direction to turn and to slow down on command. It is amazing.
Its a great way to burn up energy. I also bought a dog treadmill to take the edge off when they get too crazy.

 

[Brevig]

Welcome!
It should be noted that I have not neutered any of the three of the Dobermans I've had. There is research that shows that dogs need their natural hormones not only when growing, but throughout life. So especially early-neutering (that is pushed by so many people, vets included) is bad for their joints and bones. It can make a dog grow inordinately tall and lanky, and it can cause joints to be vulnerable to injury. So you're ahead of the game if you keep this in mind.

This is very helpful. I have not neutered her, as I wanted to wait until she was a couple years old and see how things were going as I might want to breed her once or twice (but I want to wait at least 3+ years, because I want some time with her before saggy tits set in, hehehe).

I'm a pitbull enthusiast, and have bred before, plus am familiar with all the issues involved with heat and how to control it. Anyways, what you said makes sense and seems best to keep her as she is even if I don't decide to breed.

Actually, what you said about teaching them to walk on their hind legs seems like a good workout, and I doubt would be near as bad as her jumping constantly at a tug toy of fetch (as she prefers to catch the ball after it bounces and jump at it, or if it isn't bouncing she'll pounce on it with her feet). Plus, it's kinda cool, and good for an apartment, and my girl will get a kick out of it. I think that, plus the other suggestion of swimming, will help with low impact/high energy releasing exercises.

You said "Is there that much difference between a dog willingly running beside the owner, and a dog running (perhaps very vigorously and fast, and making quick turns and stops) free in a grassy or dirt area?" and I totally agree, and have been a bit skeptical about other posts (not today, but my research a few weeks ago) where they are so insistent that anything is bad.

I guess, and probably like you might have been wondering, what is the worst factor, is it the forced exercise, or the hard surface? Like what is the worst thing?

But in any event, in a short hour on this forum I have come up with many helpful solutions at least to limit both potential issues.

 

[Tropicalbri's]

@Brevig 500mg daily is a standard dose. I do however give mine 750mg to 1000mg a day, mainly because where I live the pollen from things blooming year round and the Poisonwood trees around our area create allergies for my two. The Vit C works really well to eliminate allergic responses.
I would definitely tip the guards to let your girl run like the wind to burn up energy in the parks.

You do website design? I may need to send you a PM as I am looking for help in that category. Lol

 

[Brevig]

There are probably a ton of people who started running on pavement with their young pups and never had an issue. I just try to minimize potential problems- hence me being a little bit of a worry wart. That would be cool to see a little dobie riding in a cart behind your bike haha! We need pics of that please!

Thanks again for the feedback. Also, it's comforting to think that many "messed up" but didn't have problems. Just like you, I prefer to be safe than sorry. I guess it's kinda like giving a dog cooked bones, I did it a while with my pits, but after watching my dobbie scarf down food I am yanking bones out her mouth when she finds them on our walks.

For sure, I'll get some photos in about 2 weeks or so, and even 1 better, I'll get a photo with her riding with some famous landmarks, like Angkor Wat in the background.

 

[Brevig]

@Brevig
You do website design? I may need to send you a PM as I am looking for help in that category. Lol

Yeah, no problem, I'll give you the "Dobie Lover" discount. And if it's something for dogs and not a lot of work even for free for all your help. Just PM me details once you are ready.

 

[Ravenbird]

I can't add any advice to what's already been said. I will say, that like others here, I totally did "wrong" stuff with my doberman puppy in 1992. LOL, no internet meant all I knew was what I'd read in a few books, and they never said anything about NOT exercising. Between 6 months and a year old I took my pup with me when trail riding (horseback) in the mountains, and we went at a pretty brisk pace + she would take off into the forest and come back several times, so she always did more milage than I did on horseback. My shortest ride was about 4 - 5 miles and some were 7 - 8 miles. I started with just 1 or 2 days a week and worked up to her going 4 -5 days a week. Before she was 2 she'd done a 20 mile ride, it was a slow all day affair, about 7 hours. She had hips like a greyhound, never took a lame step her whole life and lived to be 11. Knowing what I do now, I'd never do it again, plus I don't think todays Dobes are what they were 20 - 30 years ago. You're ahead of the game already, doing research, asking questions and keeping your pup intact. Looking forward to photos!

 

[Kaiser2016]

Actually, I've been worried for a couple weeks and have reduced our bike trips from 2-3x a day to every couple days and doing tug/fetch/etc instead. But it's always been on hard surfaces. Is that something I should worry about, or do you think I'm over thinking it?

I agree with all the advice! It does seem like we are over thinking it, but this is no ordinary dog that you have, it’s a Doberman!

Bike trips 2-3x a day? That sounds like a lot! From a physical standpoint, these Dobermans can go all day long if you let them. They are like energizer bunnies on crack and no normal person needs that in their life! Just ask @Tropicalbri's about what she does in a day to exercise her Doberbeasts - I am exhausted just HEARING about it I exercise my Dober JUST enough to save my sanity, but mental exhaustion is the key to tiring them out.

We have hardwood floors and we laid down large carpets to avoid any issues. I thought I would make the sacrifice until he was 2 and fully grown and then get him neutered, but we didn’t neuter him and we decided the carpet pieces were the safest way to go. We’re in Canada, so with our long winters, playing inside the house can’t be avoided. I’ve seen him slip and fall on his hips or his legs spread unnaturally wide when on bare floors, and I always cringe when these things happen because I can’t imagine how hard it would be on the dog - and us as owners! - if he would be injured and require rest. Best to avoid it altogether!

You have access to a grassy park for $1??? Wow, do it! I’d avoid hard surfaces vs prolonged exercise on a soft surface because hard surfaces create more wear and tear on joints. When I think of how big these dogs are and all the crazy things they do in a day, I want to safeguard their bones and joints as much as I can. After my Doberdevil plays ON the carpet, he folds it up to make a comfy spot to lay on

 

[MyBuddy]

^^^^ Funny, funny boy!