Is this accurate?

[DD4MSpock]

On one of my 2A forums, we are debating the status of "Pit Bulls," their owners, and whether or not anyone should own them due to the "inherent risks" of doing so. Some argue that like any other dog, they have to be properly trained. Others argue that no matter how much training, it's still in their "inbred"nature to attack, even going so far as coming up to a person, tail wagging, smile on their face, only to get up into a human's face and rip it off. There was a photo posted (I won't post it here) of a young lady shown smiling, but without her upper lip and teeth exposed. Apparently, the pit bull at work. FTR, I've only encountered Pit Bulls live on the end of a leash with their owner present. First, I ask if the animal is "petable." I then go through the proper "introduction" procedure. I let them sniff my arm (which I can retract quickly/easily if needed). If that works then I try a "Paw" maneuver (i.e. "shake hands"). If that works, then I can pet them. Have not had any trouble at all.

As part of the discussion on Pit Bulls, some one else posted a graphic showing a bar chart of "fatal dog attacks by breed" between 2005 and 2017. Attached below.

What say you to the accuracy of this chart?

Furthermore, notice a certain breed is missing????

 

[JanS]

I think it almost always depends on the person who owns the dog. Yes Pits have a very strong grip if they want to use it but almost all of them I've known are total sweethearts just like our Dobermans are. Many people buy some of these breeds for the wrong reason and don't treat them well so a dog will retaliate.

 

[Ravenbird]

What say you to the accuracy of this chart?

Furthermore, notice a certain breed is missing????

Sadly, I think the chart is pretty accurate. Including the "missing breed".

Pit bulls inherent design was to grip and not let go. That tenacity is somewhere in the genetic make up of all bully breeds, but just like Dobermans, some original traits show strongly and in some individuals those traits have disappeared. Bully breeds are easily recognizable but the traits are invisible until you get to know that dog. You can watch any WAE evaluation of Dobermans and some dogs will move aggressively forward at the "bad guy" and some will hide behind their handler. Genetics rules and breeding either enhances it or rules it out.

I've met many pit bull type dogs, none were human aggressive but in the wrong hands could have been fear biters. I personally think they are wonderful dogs for pets with "normal people", but they have a genetic propensity to be dog aggressive and pack influenced (2 or more will act differently than 1 lone dog). I would never own one in the U.S. for the reason of liability.

 

[DD4MSpock]

Sadly, I think the chart is pretty accurate. Including the "missing breed".

Pit bulls inherent design was to grip and not let go. That tenacity is somewhere in the genetic make up of all bully breeds, but just like Dobermans, some original traits show strongly and in some individuals those traits have disappeared. Bully breeds are easily recognizable but the traits are invisible until you get to know that dog. You can watch any WAE evaluation of Dobermans and some dogs will move aggressively forward at the "bad guy" and some will hide behind their handler. Genetics rules and breeding either enhances it or rules it out.

I've met many pit bull type dogs, none were human aggressive but in the wrong hands could have been fear biters. I personally think they are wonderful dogs for pets with "normal people", but they have a genetic propensity to be dog aggressive and pack influenced (2 or more will act differently than 1 lone dog).

I would never own one in the U.S. for the reason of liability.

Yeah. And for similar "liability" reasons, most Homeowner's Insurance companies in FL (the ones that are still left), won't insure a home that has a dog on their "Dangerous Breed" list... Dobermans and Pit Bulls being on almost each and every list. If you're caught with one, they'll cancel your policy immediately, regardless of whether or not the dog has done anything. Only State Farm Insurance (my company) goes by "bite history." So, as long as your dog doesn't bite anyone, you're good to go. The problem being, I don't know how long we will have them here in FL as a good number of companies are leaving the FL Insurance Market or raising their rates to prohibitive levels. I hope I can stay with them. But I won't test this just yet. I don't want to get the dog and then suddenly need to pick a different company and have the problem.

 

[JanS]

I don't know how long we will have them here in FL as a good number of companies are leaving the FL Insurance Market or raising their rates to prohibitive levels.

I would imagine all of the hurricane coverages costs them a lot.

We recently switched to USAA for our house and car and they aren't breed restrictive. You do need to be either active military or a veteran to get it though.

 

[Ravenbird]

In my area they are canceling insurance for wildfire risk. When we got homeowners insurance nobody asked about dog, but I did read the million page thing issued and there were no breed restrictions (State Farm). But in the last 2 years 2 people in my tiny hood (10 homeowners) have had cancels due to wildfire risk - akin to your hurricane risk I'm guessing.

Dogs, I'm guessing are more of a (breed) risk in populated areas, so that might come into consideration. But still, Dobermans are way down the list for bite risk, I don't know why they would even appear on insurance "high risk" at all.

 

[DD4MSpock]

I would imagine all of the hurricane coverages costs them a lot.

We recently switched to USAA for our house and car and they aren't breed restrictive. You do need to be either active military or a veteran to get it though.

Which, unfortunately, I am not. My father had USAA from his prior Military Status (USAF).

 

[Rits]

Sadly, BYBs have ruined "pit bulls" They are NOT supposed to be human aggressive AT ALL. Bull baiting or dog fighting, being human aggressive was culled out because humans had to be able to tend to their dogs when in a high state of arousal and prey drive. The last thing their handlers wanted was their dog to turn on them. Another big reason why testing and breeding correct temperaments is important. Dogs shouldn't be tossed together willy nilly.

Which, unfortunately, I am not. My father had USAA from his prior Military Status (USAF).

You don't need to be active military or a veteran. I use USAA with my husband. Neither of us are military. My dad is retired military and has an account.

if you’re a spouse, unmarried former spouse, or child of a USAA member, you are likely eligible for your own USAA membership. If you get married after joining USAA, your spouse will also be eligible. In the future, their children will become eligible for USAA membership, too.

 

[Ravenbird]

Sadly, BYBs have ruined "pit bulls" They are NOT supposed to be human aggressive AT ALL. Bull baiting or dog fighting, being human aggressive was culled out because humans had to be able to tend to their dogs when in a high state of arousal and prey drive. The last thing their handlers wanted was their dog to turn on them. Another big reason why testing and breeding correct temperaments is important. Dogs shouldn't be tossed together willy nilly.

Exactly! These dogs were never meant to be human aggressive or to be protection dogs.

 

[DD4MSpock]

Sadly, BYBs have ruined "pit bulls" They are NOT supposed to be human aggressive AT ALL. Bull baiting or dog fighting, being human aggressive was culled out because humans had to be able to tend to their dogs when in a high state of arousal and prey drive. The last thing their handlers wanted was their dog to turn on them. Another big reason why testing and breeding correct temperaments is important. Dogs shouldn't be tossed together willy nilly.


You don't need to be active military or a veteran. I use USAA with my husband. Neither of us are military. My dad is retired military and has an account.

I actually did try with USAA a while back and was disqualified from eligibility based on not having someone close to me in the Military (apparently, Dad didn't count).

 

[Rits]

was disqualified from eligibility based on not having someone close to me in the Military (apparently, Dad didn't count

That's really strange!! Based off of the info above that I pulled from their website you should qualify? That's how I have USAA is via relation of my dad.

 

[JanS]

You don't need to be active military or a veteran. I use USAA with my husband. Neither of us are military. My dad is retired military and has an account.

I didn't know that but it seems to be a really good option. Of course we've never needed to file a claim (KOW) but the prices are decent for the coverage.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

I admire Pit Bulls. I know some say there is no such breed, rather it's a type of dog. I did read a book years ago entitled "The Ultimate American Pit Bull Terrier" and the author sure seems to think it's a breed. I know that we have a member here who breeds Dobermans but used to breed Pit Bulls, and we are talking old style, athletic, game Pit Bulls. I thought I knew her screen name here, but I didn't find it.

I will say that I have developed a view on Pits that they have what I call dangerous potential. Sure, how they are raised makes a difference, but I don't believe it's all in how they're raised. Pit type dogs have an innate quality that predisposes them to going into that maul /kill mode. They also have the tendency to go after small animals, Your bunny rabbit and your cats are not safe around Pits. Yes, there are many examples of Pits that never hurt a fly their whole lives, but I believe the dangerous potential is usually there. Remember, I'm talking about that killing / mauling, not just biting like a GSD or Dobe would do. The violent mode they switch into is enhanced and made more likely to occur when the dogs are present in numbers greater than one.

As for their bite pressure, it surprises me quite a bit that the data I have repeatedly seen is that Pits don't have that high a force relatively speaking – only in the 200+ lb. range. Pits just tend to hang on, making it seem vice-like and leading to the false legend that their jaws are
"locking". Resting on his dog bed near me is a dog that, on paper, should have some of the highest jaw pressure of any domestic dog – some 700 lbs. Yep, I flexed there Fortunately, Zephyr has a very strong bite inhibition.

When the shelters and Pitty groups paint these dogs solely as sweet, loving silly family dogs, and try to place them in any old home that seems like they can provide for the dog, I believe it is irresponsible and dangerous.

All this is just my view, and I am not an expert on Pit Bulls We fostered a beautiful female American Bulldog / Pit Bull mix. She would let my then 3-4 year old daughter use the dog's belly as a pillow as she read the dog books. This was always under direct supervision and it was still a risk.

 

[LucyXIII]

When the shelters and Pitty groups paint these dogs solely as sweet, loving silly family dogs, and try to place them in any old home that seems like they can provide for the dog, I believe it is irresponsible and dangerous.

I think pits are great in the right home, but I don't want one because of my cats.
There is a mindset that breed is just icing or sprinkles, that what the breed was created for doesn't matter. They were created to be aggressive with other animals and to never, ever back down. That's more than just "animals fight", that's ignoring pain and damage. Guard dogs guard, sheepdogs herd, and huskies (another breed I'd never have with small animals) endure, run, pull and hunt.

With that said, my hesitancy with pits is entirely human based. I've met far too many people who are just clueless about animals. If you cross my path with a strong dog, I'm looking at you to see if you are capable of reading and managing a situation to keep us all safe.

A memorable example was being at the vet with one of the cats and there was a lady with a big pit straining at the leash. She said -- while having to brace -- that the dog just wanted to play with cats.

She did not. It was hunting behavior. The other cat mom in the waiting room and I just gave a look. I do not trust that person's judgment of that dog's behavior.