Is cropping purely cosmetic?

No getting around it: A C/D dog looks more alert and more intimidating, and less soft/friendly/sweet.

I find the study of color most interesting. Some time ago, I posed the question what looks more intimidating: White or black color? I posted pics of a classic muscle car (happens to be the kind that I own, but let my brother have and take care of): One car in white, one car in black. I also posted pics of two MMA fighters: C.B. "The Doberman" Dolloway, and Uriah Hall. I asked which looked more intimidating. A moderator removed the post, citing the volatile climate of the day in the U.S.
 
I don’t understand the reasoning behind cropping prevents ear infections... I worry MORE about Rios ears because he plays a lot in the water and without a fold there’s nothing to keep it from going into his ear canal. His ears are also a high target for gnats and bugs, while it’s near impossible for them to get into Odysseys or Brinks. I’ve had flop, uncropped dogs my whole life and have never once had any have an ear infection. Like people, genetically some are more prone than others... despite us having the same ear forms.

Flop ears aren’t naturally occurring but what good does cropping do for that? It doesn’t change the genetics. Pretty sure wild canids have tails too so...? Which is it?

What’s so wrong with just saying “I crop because I think it looks cool”? Because that’s all it’s really for. Comparing to a spay or neuter procedure that actually has purpose, albeit “elective”, is silly.
 
I don’t understand the reasoning behind cropping prevents ear infections... I worry MORE about Rios ears because he plays a lot in the water and without a fold there’s nothing to keep it from going into his ear canal. His ears are also a high target for gnats and bugs, while it’s near impossible for them to get into Odysseys or Brinks. I’ve had flop, uncropped dogs my whole life and have never once had any have an ear infection. Like people, genetically some are more prone than others... despite us having the same ear forms.

Flop ears aren’t naturally occurring but what good does cropping do for that? It doesn’t change the genetics. Pretty sure wild canids have tails too so...? Which is it?

What’s so wrong with just saying “I crop because I think it looks cool”? Because that’s all it’s really for. Comparing to a spay or neuter procedure that actually has purpose, albeit “elective”, is silly.
Nothing wrong with saying I prefer the look of a cropped and docked Doberman. It is the standard for which the breed was produced. It is the look that most people think of when the word Doberman spoken. Unfortunately, there are countries that have given in to the liberals and animal rights activists and now have lost there rights to crop and dock. People can argue back and forth on the reason for or against it. I will just say there is nothing cruel about it, I have been around numerous litters, the day of the crop and the puppies are all playing and acting normal.
I have never had a problem with any of our Dobermans when it comes to having ear infections but on the other hand our Standard Poodle was getting them so frequently we had to stop doing dock diving with him. Best explained as the open ear is not apt to dry out and be fine where the covered ear stays moist and gets infected easier.
All that being said I crop and dock because that is the look I prefer, whether there is a benefit for one way or there other doesn’t matter to me.
 
It's interesting that the summation at the beginning says that while people think C/D dogs appear more aggressive, the majority didn't know how dogs came to have the look; they don't even realize that C/D is a thing.

We had more than one conversation when Rubie was in posts where a light bulb would go off and the person would say, OH! They're not BORN like that?

Of course they decide then and there, because they know nothing about the procedures, that it must be god awful and painful and whyyyyyy would anyone do that?!

Yes, I like the look and did specifically seek out a cropped dog. My last boy had floppy ears (docked tail) and people did not generally recognize him as a Doberman - which didn't really bother me. Similar to other people's stories, they'd be petting on him, kids would be getting kisses from him, and then the "what kind of dog is he?" question comes up and parents immediately get rigid and side eyed him. He was still a very formidable looking creature so people still crossed the road to walk on the opposite sidewalk.

I think people don't just say, "I like the look" because that's not enough reason for someone to accept it and move on. There seems to be a need to defend the choice (similar to when #adoptdontshop advocates question why ANYONE would buy a dog from a breeder. The answer of "because that's what I wanted to do" doesn't justify it enough to them). I will say when I need to grab a hold of Rubie, there isn't much and that's the point with a protection dog.
 
Did other countries that have banned the procedures also change their standard for the breed?

Growing up my family friends always had hog dogs, and they would often crop and dock the dogs to give the hogs less to grab a hold of. Much like the reasoning behind a Dobermans role as a protector. But how come the other breeds in protection sports or police/military work come fully intact of their appendages? If it’s such a significant advantage, shouldnt other breeds adopt the practice too?
 
Did other countries that have banned the procedures also change their standard for the breed?
I can only speak for Australia, and the Doberman breed standard is for natural ears and tails. I'm not sure how it works if there is a cropped and docked imported dog at a show, which must happen sometimes.
 
I was looking around at a few Doberman breeder sites that I heard of, and I happened upon this explanation of one breeder's reasons for, and beliefs on, C&D. This was on the Iconic Dobermans website. They are located in Tucson, which is interesting to me because that's where I grew up and I still have family there. Iconic's Dobermans look pretty well put together – look like confo. Dobes but I get the sense there is some emphasis put on working. I am betting they are quite a bit over my price range though.

The reasons cited below for C&D are avoiding injury to tails and ears during work, as well as better hearing, and fewer health problems than with pendulous ears. I have more reasons than that, as can be found in this thread; but interesting read.

– Tad

01/11/2020

Beautifully written!!!! I unapologetically crop & dock my pure, responsibly & purposely bred Dobermans. I also support a breeder's right to choose what is best for their puppies.

I own purebred dogs that are cropped and docked, and I am not going to apologize for it. I am not inviting anyone into a debate, nor am I saying that anyone has to support my opinion as I write this; thanks to our current environment a lot has been going through my mind and I wanted to get it out, so to speak.

My dogs are happy, they are healthy, and they are well-adjusted. For the most part they have been born in our home, and raised here. We provide them with the best start in life... a stimulating environment, the best possible care, quality food and supplementation, training, love and respect. They share our home, and are permanent fixtures where ever we are most every day, be it on the couch, or traveling with us. They are an important part of our family, and we love them very, very much.

When they are born here, I make a decision to crop and dock. I do this because I feel it is the best decision for my pet, it provides them the benefits that their creator, Herr Dobermann designed them for since he could not breed in these desired traits... To have an erect ear that is less likely to be caught and damaged, to have an erect conical shaped ear that will quickly hear and target danger or concerns, and to have an erect ear that provides the ventilation and easy care and maintenance to lessen the health issues of pendulous ears. Much is the same with the tail, which is taken to the second joint so that the dog can be spared unnecessary pain and damage by catching it, or by striking it. That is my opinion on why I crop and dock. To me, it is not done because it looks ‘cool’, though there is an acknowledged factor of intimidation of an erect ear by some. I can assure you that 120 years ago, the least thing on Her Dobermann’s mind was how ‘cool’ his dog looked. He was needed and designed an animal that would help preserve his life when doing his job, and he needed that dog that dog to be easy to maintain, and devoted to his master. Hence, the Doberman was designed.

When we crop and dock, we do it under the care of a professional. Our veterinarians are very conscientious on their task, and like all other surgeries, the dog is well attended and the procedure is done under anesthesia, with pain management and infection control always put in place post-op. We are super diligent with our post operative care, and puppies stay with us until stitches are out, ears are healed and they are ready for first taping; or when just when fully healed, in the case of tails. We provide education and supervision for every one of our puppy people on ear posting and see them through the taping process right to the time the ears stand.

In my lifetime, I have never observed a puppy having a reaction to an ear crop or tail dock that is worse than any other surgery (such as pediatric spay). In fact it is routine for them to be up eating and playing and being puppies within hours. Many cannot say that with other more invasive procedures routinely performed and accepted by society as ‘good’, such as spays and neuters. The procedures (crop/dock) do not have long term effects, they do not change the dog mentally or physically other than appearance, and they do provide actual benefits that are not just cosmetic.

Considering all of this, I wonder why anyone would think that any breeder, who gives their heart and soul to a litter would stand by and willingly allow them to subject to ‘cruelty’ by choice? If I honestly thought it was a ‘cruel’ procedure, and affected my puppies for life, or even temporarily I would not be doing it. It’s insulting to people like myself, who dedicate a significant portion of their hearts and lives to these animals, to insinuate that we would do so with the knowledge it is truly hurtful. If I truly felt that was happening, I would not be doing it, as a matter of fact, I would not be in the breed, period. Breeders are not villains here. They are making educated, caring decisions on behalf of the animals they bred and own. Of course, there are always the few bad apples, as in any group, but do the whole really need to be punished for the few? If so, our society is in serious trouble in so many areas.

Too much in today's world is being forced upon others, in response to the ignorant, feeling based judgement of some others. These same judgements and assumptions are being forced into society through or educational institutions as well as more influential societal formats, such as social media. People, we need to practice some critical thinking skills, and provide some objectivity when we are looking at things outside our wheelhouse in this world. There is a huge amount of forceful action and funding to promote some scary things going on globally due to elite group think, and it is not rational, nor in the best interest of the many. I am continually shocked at how few just accept and refuse to educate or question on so much.

I own purebred, cropped and docked dogs; I care about them and I care for them, and I am not going to apologize for it.

Vodcast with the editor-in-chief of the Petfood Industry & Watt media - Debbie Phillips-Donaldson

For the full version of this vodcast with more discussion on other hot topics, visit here Inside Scoop, facebook's new elite feature (free entry for a week)


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01/22/2020
A few pictures of our Handsome, Brock, Iconic's the Winds of Winter. Owned by Jess and Dan Dufour.


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01/19/2020
Just had to add one more photo of the gorgeous girls from yesterday. Miss Envy and her daughter, Mattis!!


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01/18/2020
Mother Envy and daughter Mattis reunited today at the Rose City Classic dog show in Portland. Mattis is a beauty and has so much potential. Thank you to owner- handler Melissa Mccain-Jones for showing her in the conformation ring!


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Thought I'd put this here. I happened upon this website the other day. Who knew there was a dedicated ear cropping facility in TX? They tout affordable pricing and crop all commonly cropped breeds.

They talk about a stent method. I assume this involves a support being inserted in the ear – temporarily or permanently?

 
Who knew there was a dedicated ear cropping facility in TX? They tout affordable pricing and crop all commonly cropped breeds.
Two things jumped out at me. First of all, the website kinda reads like a late-night TV advertisement, which really turns me off. The other is the photos that appear to be clients picking up their puppy with an Elizabethan Collar (usually not needed) & ears look fully taped - a no-no for just cropped ears. I couldn't make the photos larger to really tell, but that was my initial thought. I would be nice to have a dedicated vet that specialized in nothing but crops and who could do an outstanding job and follow the desires of the clients wishes on length & style.
 
Thought I'd put this here. I happened upon this website the other day. Who knew there was a dedicated ear cropping facility in TX? They tout affordable pricing and crop all commonly cropped breeds.

They talk about a stent method. I assume this involves a support being inserted in the ear – temporarily or permanently?

This place is 5 minutes from me!! Good to know
 
Dont most all breeders crop the pups before they go to homes? I mean how often do you have to find your own cropping place? I kinda thought any good breeder takes care of all that?
 
It depends most all show breeders crop before they leave. Working breeders sometime don’t since a crop and docked dog can’t go to the IDC world championship if in a country where it isn’t allowed.
 
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I've been looking in on a social media group devoted to a Mastiff type breed of dog that does not get its ears cropped. The topic came up. Actually, the topic was not on cropping, but everybody immediately made it about cropping. Boy, people are viciously devoted to their emotional position against cropping. (Hint, blur your eyes and scan a comment quickly. If your eye finds the word "chopped," or of course the standard "mutilate," move on unless you have the time and tolerance for emotional, irrational drivel.

Here is an article from the BBC, however, that one guy posted. It seemed to ask me for a subscription in order to view it, but anyway, the gist is that there is supposedly a trend toward ear cropping to keep up with social media trends. I actually can believe this, tentatively. Some of the breeds I've been watching on social media, it's all about the tough look – with short Pit-type crops, and the dogs just standing there looking all tough. As a proponent of cropping, I don't mind this because cropping popularity otherwise is falling fast and I believe it will be illegal in the US before too long.

The picture that I saw related to this BBC article showed what looked like they might be French Bulldogs with cropped ears. Maybe not exactly that breed, but similar. I could be wrong. They could have been something related to "Pocket Bullys" or the like.


@Viemarangelrock
 
Hm, they look like Staffordshire terriers but ones poorly bred for "exotic" color and that 'bulldog' type stance. Those are definitely not for anything but vanity (which would be in-line, I supposed, with the authors narrative so the perfect example for him to include to support his opinion).
 
We all know the timeless classic Black Beauty, yes?

I'd never read it. Our older daughter is a huge bookworm, and hugely into horses – has been for a few years now. This week for whatever reason, she wanted to read the above mentioned book to me as part of her tuck in. I love it! She is teetering on the brink of getting too old and too cool for a lot of things, and I'm cherishing this.

One thing I didn't realize is that the book, so far anyway, is latent with railings against mistreatment, and poor handling, of horses. It's getting a bit old to me in the first few chapters, actually.

Here's the thing though: The book decried the docking of horses' tails, and get this, the cropping of dogs' ears and docking dogs' tails! Here we have a book written about a dozen years after the Civil War, and the author is railing against cropping and docking of dogs!! Talk about nothing new!
 
The book decried the docking of horses' tails, and get this, the cropping of dogs' ears and docking dogs' tails! Here we have a book written about a dozen years after the Civil War, and the author is railing against cropping and docking of dogs!! Talk about nothing new!
You have to remember, and can also explain to your daughter that when that book was published in 1877, the procedure was probably pretty barbaric. I'd have to look it up, but I think even humans had surgeries and amputations with little to no known numbing agents until the mid 1800's and except for experimental purposes it was probably not used on animals. So yeah, pretty good argument against crop & dock for those days and times.
 
I think it is a discussion of time and culture. In 1877, our culture had its share of barbaric offenses against their own humankind, let alone toward an animal many viewed then as similar to a Dodge Caravan. Black Beauty was forward thinking for animal rights, when the mass ownership of horses could probably be, at times, appalling. Interesting topic. It is sad that these topics can’t seem to be discussed without a snowballing into a liberal vs conservative/save the world mentality.standoff.
 

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