Dismiss Notice
Hello Guest!
We are glad you found us, if you find anything useful here please consider registering to see more content and get involved with our great community members, it takes less than a minute!

Is cropping purely cosmetic?

Discussion in 'Doberman Talk and Discussions' started by WiglWerm, Mar 22, 2016.

  1. WiglWerm

    WiglWerm Hot Topics Subscriber

    Although I love the cropped look myself...Would you please elaborate on your position? Interested to hear...

     
  2. AresMyDobie

    AresMyDobie Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    • Like Like x 1
  3. WiglWerm

    WiglWerm Hot Topics Subscriber

    Ares I see the link info for the Cane Corso...floppy ears with working dogs causing issues...but this does not seem to make sense. Hence the Labrador retriever...water dogs, hunting, not cropped. So although the article info makes sense, the logic doesn't.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. AresMyDobie

    AresMyDobie Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    I can say from first hand experience I will never own another floppy eared breed again (one that can't be cropped.) I had a golden and he was a great dog loved the water, but it was a blessing and a curse. He got chronic ear infections. We had to flush his ears once a month on top of that weekly cleanings. Although this helped it did not get rid of the ear infections that occurred. I felt horribly for him and was afraid he would end up deaf. The floppy ears in my opinion don't really serve a purpose for things such as hunting, swimming or tracking. They are cute yes but certainly not my preference and not something I will ever go through again. I personally don't care if one wants to keep floppy ears it's just not something I care for. You also have to keep in mind the length of ear while its floppy. A labs ears are relatively short in comparison to a dobermans or a bloodhound so I feel that plays a part. Also work load and how they play. In the working breeds they are typically hard players and very rough and tumble. I think there are more factors then just floppy ears and non floppy ears.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Oh Little Oji

    Oh Little Oji Formerly Tad Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Sure, I can do that. :) I know I have laid it out in other threads on this forum in the past, but I would have to think of exactly which threads those were. I'll write on it soon – maybe tomorrow. I appreciate your asking! :thumbsup:
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. WiglWerm

    WiglWerm Hot Topics Subscriber

    Some dogs are more prone to ear infections, this is true. My grandparents own labs their whole lives and those dogs loved the water. No ear problems with the six plus they owned. As you said... it is a preference. What I am trying to say is cropping although lovely does not play a large part in ear health. IMO :whistle: Of the 5 dobies I have owned over the years ALL liked to play rough and never had any ear injuries. I feel cosmetically it enhances the beauty of the breed, in most cases I do not feel it has any health benefits. But that is why I posted the question...to get input from both sides. lol

    That was my point, many breeds that are used for hunting, water retrieval have floppy ears but the article said one of the health reasons for cropping was to alleviate ear infections, mites ticks and bacteria...so why are so many hunting/ water retrieval breeds uncropped? When these are the breeds IN the woods and water... Just doesn't add up.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. AresMyDobie

    AresMyDobie Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Elaborate tomorrow. To tired right now
     
  8. Oh Little Oji

    Oh Little Oji Formerly Tad Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Good points. Don't want to leave you hanging (no pun intended :D), so I will say that the health of the ear in terms of cleanliness is just one of the reasons to crop in breeds that have historically been cropped. There are several others.

    One place to which I can point you is the thread I started a while back entitled "My Grim Fearful Prediction."

    But yes, you do raise (no pun intended :D) a very good point – and I was thinking about this earlier – in noting that many working breeds, including those that work in the water, do not have cropped ears.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Ingrid H

    Ingrid H Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    I not only allude to the position that cropping is solely cosmetic but hold that position firmly. If cropping isn't a cosmetic procedure, why has it become a stylized art form that defeats the original purpose of eliminating a hand hold? The original crops meant for function were so short that they couldn't help but stand. I don't think breeders put forth much effort to produce an ear that would be prone to stand since the ears were going to be cropped short anyway. There are vast differences in ear leather thickness to this day.

    I have to smile at the image I get from playing dobes flopping around :) You're right that it's not too dignified, but the same thing happens with cropped ears in motion.

    For those who can't legally crop or who choose not to crop, there is now a standard for the way ears should look- close to the cheeks. We humans can't help but mess with nature and dog ears. Take the Shetland Sheepdog for example. Their ears are never cropped, but the ideal shape is "tipped" (pricked but with the tip flopping forward). Their owners go through all sorts of actions and glue to achieve the breed standard look.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Oh Little Oji

    Oh Little Oji Formerly Tad Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    I agree that overly long ear crops are not in keeping with the original purpose of cropping – to eliminate a hand-hold for a human opponent. I do not advocate for overly long ear crops.

    When I talked about generations of Dobermans being bred for (among other things) ears that would be likely to stand, I was not talking about the Dobermanns of the earliest days when the crop was so short.

    Flopping around of uncropped ears is far different from the bending of cropped ears that is mostly only detectable in photographs.

    There may now be a standard for the appearance of uncropped Doberman ears, but that has no bearing on my position. Yes, if you do have an uncropped Dobe and wish to conform to that standard, then taping the ears down may be in your interest.

    As for seeking to make Sheltie, and Collie as well if I'm not mistaken, ears flop forward at the tip – and going to any significant length to do so – personally I find that practice quite silly.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. WiglWerm

    WiglWerm Hot Topics Subscriber

    The more I think on this the more I wonder if many working dogs that have uncropped ears would say the opposite...That the "flopping", natural ear keeps the ear canal protected from debris while in the field. Although air circulation may be diminished I believe man's ability to breed poorly has added to the increase in ear infections in pet quality breeds.​
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  12. AresMyDobie

    AresMyDobie Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    I like how it's always why did you crop? What are the health benefits? "It's strictly for looks." Well what if those of us that crop started asking why did you keep them floppy? What are the health benefits ? "It's strictly for looks." There is in all honest nothing natural about floppy ears on any animal. If it were healthier for an animal to have floppy ears why don't you see it occur naturally in wild canines or any other animal in the wild ?
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Pure Genius! Pure Genius! x 2
  13. Oh Little Oji

    Oh Little Oji Formerly Tad Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    That is a good question. Look at a Doberman's cropped and standing ears and you see that the bell could collect dirt, small bits of vegetation and so forth. On the other hand, I think so could floppy ears. I don't think the ear flap would effectively keep all that much out of the ear. Maybe in the case of long, pendulous ears that don't fly up as much.

    Furthermore, I have never had a problem with a Doberman getting stuff collected in the ears, (I've only owned three thus far – full disclosure) and I have let them do a lot of running in amongst bushes, brush and grasses.

    Now, I think what would be more problematic is dirt or foreign matter getting into the ears, and maybe some water or other moisture – maybe even stagnant water from murky streams or muddy, watery places they run, then that dirty matter and moisture remaining in the floppy ear that does not breath as well as a cropped ear.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. WiglWerm

    WiglWerm Hot Topics Subscriber

    I in fact did not ask this...I was just asking littleoji his perspective on cropping from his post. I am in no way bashing cropping, as I have stated before I like the look. But in all seriousness your link states first it is for aesthetic purpose and also health benefits...I disagree with the latter. You can find articles all over the internet for one side or another...
    The American Kennel Club (AKC) says the practices are “integral to defining and preserving breed character” in certain breeds. But the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) opposes docking and cropping. “The most common reason for cropping and docking is to give a dog a certain look.
    I believe the AKC says it all...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. AresMyDobie

    AresMyDobie Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Never said you asked those questions they are just commonly asked and I don't get why. The akc is good source but in my opinion provides little on the aspect of cropping. Yes it's for looks but it's also for health. As I said before I will never own a floppy eared dog again.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. WiglWerm

    WiglWerm Hot Topics Subscriber

    I think people ask about cropping because it is a elective surgery and posting can be quite a long endeavor. I think all prospective and novice owners should be equipped with as much information on all aspects of doberman ownership including to crop or not to crop. I don't feel people are "bashing" when they ask... IMO I'm not sure WHO would be a better source for breed standard than the AKC. As far as the health benefits...let's agree to disagree :thumbsup2:
     
    • Like Like x 4
  17. AresMyDobie

    AresMyDobie Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Dpca wrote the standard for the akc. AKC is just a registry. And sounds good. But if you think about it spays and neuteres are also elective surgeries. To each their own. Personally I'd rather post the rest of my life then ever go through what I did with my golden. Never had any ear issues with any of my dogs that had standing ears.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. WiglWerm

    WiglWerm Hot Topics Subscriber

    The standards are the same. 6 of one half dozen of another. Spays and neuters are elective surgeries but I think most people know the reasoning's behind that one. I wonder if you could crop a goldens ears...:evilgrin:
     
  19. Oh Little Oji

    Oh Little Oji Formerly Tad Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    I know you were being funny, but sure you could crop a Golden's ears. You might get folks calling SPCA on you.

    Which is interesting to think about: Cropping is still legal in this country – I assume for all breeds. You won't find a vet to crop a breed that is not traditionally cropped though (and of course it can be hard to find one that will crop at all). So the question is: Is it legal for just anybody to crop their dog's ears – as in at home? Not a very important question. I'm just a curious person.

    Actually, I believe the person who cropped Oji's ears is not a vet, but I believe they are a vet tech.
     
    • I was wondering about that too! I was wondering about that too! x 1
  20. Oh Little Oji

    Oh Little Oji Formerly Tad Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Now that I've distracted with my unimportant question, I'll also add that cropping a breed of dog that has not been traditionally cropped would most likely result in ears that will not stand; yet we expect Dobermans' ears to stand if cropped and posted well. This makes me think that there has to be something in the breeding of this breed that has developed dogs whose ears are prone to standing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1

Share This Page