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Hind leg pain - What might it be?

Just an update. I am pretty sure that the problem was/is illiopsoas strain. Since April I have been giving Jazz regular stretching and no games involving hard stops and turns and she seems to be pain free. She plays hard with other dogs, races up and down stairs, leaps through long grass and can stretch her hind legs right out behind her until her feet turn over! :thumbsup: No further need for any pain killers which is great. I'm not crowing too much as like any weakness it only takes one wrong move to aggravate the injury again, but this is a much better situation than I feared. She is free to do anything she likes voluntarily and was even climbing straight up a bamboo clump because there might have been a rat up there, and that wouldn't have been possible for her 6 months ago. All up I'm really happy and thankyou all for your input when I was getting no where with my vet. :ty:jazz0561x2.jpg
 
Great pic! Good to finally figure it out. Are there any preventative measures you could take? I think of Kaiser like a professional athlete warming up before and cooling down after strenuous exercise. If only I could get him a little hot tub 😄
 
Great pic! Good to finally figure it out. Are there any preventative measures you could take? I think of Kaiser like a professional athlete warming up before and cooling down after strenuous exercise. If only I could get him a little hot tub 😄
I still help her have a good stretch in the mornings before we head off for a walk and she is permanently on 4cyte joint supplement daily which will help her with any joint inflammation that may occur. Apart from that I just let her live life normally with the exception of hard sessions with the flirt pole and intense chuckit sessions unless we are in the water and she has to swim for it! Seeming to work so far. :fingersx: About the hot tub...................I wouldn't mind one myself! :woot2:
 
Oji is not showing any pain at all, but in reading this and a few other threads regarding legs, this one mentioned and outward swing. I don't know if I understand what was meant by outward swing, but I'm posting this here.

I've begun to slowly notice problems with Oji's hind end.

Let me state upfront that I know some will say "Just take him to the vet." I may have to do that, but I am observing for now. Honestly, I have never found a vet in all my years of dog ownership that has seemed to be able to do much good. They are quick to prescribe medicine, and I just bet that is what they'd do here. I'm sure I could drop many hundreds of dollars, or into the thousands very quickly on x-rays and other procedures.

Let my lay a foundation by saying that I have had a theory for some years now that Oji lacks strong neuropathways (that's a term I picked up years ago when I was into weightlifting) to and from the back half of his body.

It may sound strange, but he has always lacked very good control of his pee. We're not talking about accidents historically, but he will pee on a walk or in the yard, and the flow will continue after he has started to trot away from the spot where he peed. In addition, there is a secondary squirt that happens about three seconds after he pees and he's walking. (This may be unrelated to the issue at hand). Sometimes, he'll pee on a walk, then continue walking and you'll notice a wild scatter trail of pee along the sidewalk where we've walked.

More: I"ve noticed for most of his life that he will not "fix" his hind legs after turning. He'll let the hind legs remain not rotated to his new position. It's similar to the second picture, but it's more extreme in this pic and I'm seeing this more extreme extent recently.

I've had a few events where, on walks, he has been stubbornly pulling and bracing in place to sniff and lick a urine smell and I will finally win the tug of war and he might lose traction and slip, and then I'll see his back end lowered maybe half way and he shakes a bit and struggles for a few seconds to stand back up. It's like when his hind legs are bent, there is a weakness.

More: I've noticed his hind legs at the hock joint moving out to the side as he walks. It's dramatic as he descends stairs. The point of the hock leans significantly out to the side as he steps down the stairs.

He has had a few accidents in the house in recent months. This may be related to a prostate problem, I theorize – this, in addition to my not making sure he really goes potty when I let him out in the backyard sometimes. We have had a dispute with the neighbor over his barking (which is not excessive!) but the neighbor is distressed by the brief fence-fighting that occurs from time to time between Oji and their elderly female dog. So, as crazy as it sounds, I have not felt comfortable letting Oji have the backyard time I used to (which was not too much anyway, as he WILL find stuff to bark at). I used to walk him late at night, but I've been trying to streamline my nightly routine to get myself to bed earlier, so I have cut out that walk. Still, it's a strange almost lacking control of the bladder and bowels.Yes, he has pooped in the house twice now.

I have considered that he may have a torn ligament in the knee or something, but there is no pain response exhibited. He sure has always exhibited pain or at least keen sensitivity in the hind (and front) paws when I trim his nails. So for him to be so very stoic about pain doesn't seem to be plausible.

Last: He has exhibited some knuckling over of the hind paws. I was bathing him in the shower after he had peed in his crate, and he was not fixing his knuckled over rear paw. I tested this later, and he is slow to fix the knuckled over rear paws when placed in that position.

Oh, also: He is slightly dragging his hind legs sometimes, I think, as he walks.

GBlegsCrooked.JPGGBlegsCrooked2.JPGGBlegsCrooked3.JPG
 
The dragging of the feet, leg twisting, and almost uncoordinated in the rear I would look into Wobblers or Degenrative Myelopathy. @Oh Little Oji I hope that is not the case but something to look into. Is he slow to get up from a lying down position? Could be something in the spine (compressed disc) or a torn ligament. As much as you don't wan to hear this, none of this can be diagnosed without a vet of course. I'm guessing it won't go away but maybe could be slowed down from getting worse and/or start on some joint supplements once diagnosed by the vet.


 
I would look into Wobblers or Degenrative Myelopathy.
Exactly what I was going to say. Here's a quick description of Wobblers including the late onset (so many of us think of it as something affecting younger dogs)


I agree that if the situation doesn't begin to get better soon, then a diagnosis by a vet would be best, as different causes will present different options. You can listen to the options and choose what works best for your situation. I do understand your stance on avoiding the vet up until a certain point. I'm also not an advocate of "pulling out all stops" to do surgeries and treatments that will only prolong the same outcome. But sometimes a diagnosis is totally different from what we expect and may have actual cures.

Keep us posted on this @Oh Little Oji - I'll keep you guys in my thoughts.
 
I understand how you feel about vets. My vet was quite sure that Jazz had a cruciate ligament tear, which is most assuredly was not. That was after her having xrays to check for any bony deformity. She is still perfectly fine after giving her rehab and light exercise for quite a while. Totally normal now.

Having said that, if she was showing Ojis symptoms I would have to have her back at the vet. It would scare me witless until I knew what I was dealing with. Good luck and really hoping he's just strained something.
 
From what you say, it does sound like there may be some compression of the spinal cord. If that is the case, the longer the compression lasts, the more likely it is that damage will occur. If it is injury related, anti-inflammatories and/or steroids, could help a lot. If the spinal cord is being compressed by bony growth in the vertebrae, the resulting injury might still be greatly helped by those same medications. I hope I am wrong. I was a people nurse for 40 plus years. Our pups are not always the same.❤️ If you go to the vet, tell them exactly what you told us, with photos. Tell them exactly what you fear it might be. It would be greatly helpful…even videos.
 
So, as crazy as it sounds, I have not felt comfortable letting Oji have the backyard time I used to (which was not too much anyway, as he WILL find stuff to bark at). I used to walk him late at night, but I've been trying to streamline my nightly routine to get myself to bed earlier, so I have cut out that walk. Still, it's a strange almost lacking control of the bladder and bowels.Yes, he has pooped in the house twice now.
I'm sorry to hear all the problems you're having with Oji. I have to agree with the others that a vet check is in order. I know how you feel about that and I agree, but I think he's exhibiting some extraordinary symptoms that need to be tended to. I hope it's not anything serious but I think you need to get some medical opinion. Maybe a few different opinions. And then use your gut on what avenue you want to pursue.

And it's understandable not wanting to bother your neighbor with his barking and also wanting to retire earlier at night but it seems like it's cutting into his potty time. Thus making accidents in the house. 🤷‍♀️

Please keep us updated on his prognosis. We will keep you in our prayers.
 
@Oh Little Oji - any news or changes with Oji?
Just got back from the vet a bit ago, actually. Had to clean out the back of the car of pee, but I'm back. :)

The vet visit was pretty much a total waste of time, and went like I thought it would. I tried a new vet in order to try to have a better experience. The vet scarcely listened to a word I said, and the appt. was cut short because he was growling and gave a couple jerking motions and it was deemed he was "escalating" things. I agree, he was being a problem, but really, the vet did a poor job.

Just as I thought, they planned to prescribe me a med (steroid) and wanted to do bloodwork. They also gave me the number, on a sticky note, of the big emergency vet in town which is notoriously expensive.

She had a couple vague ideas what might be going on, but was very far from offering an opinion. I told the woman on the phone prior to the visit that I was seeking someone experienced who could possibly tell me what they think is going on. Instead, I got the garden variety treatment where they are happy to suggest things that cost more money, but they didn't serve me any purpose. Yes, I understand that tests may be necessary in order to diagnose this, but I continue to think that many vets are bordering on useless.
 
They also gave me the number, on a sticky note, of the big emergency vet in town which is notoriously expensive.
They are flooding the market for the past few years and I hate it.

I hate getting glazed over when you're paying good money for that time slot.
 
Sadly, you might have to see a specialist, or request specific tests based on research. I've found a lot of vets are similar to general care doctors. They only know to start at running full blood panels, and going from there. Its a good start anyways and can give a direction in where to go but then if nothing comes up it can lead to more tests. Even when you do get the right tests, doesn't always mean the doctor knows how to interpret it... and then you have to forward that test to someone that does. Sorry, going on a bit of a rant here since I'm dealing with something similar right now trying to find answers. I hope you find yours.
 
Sadly, you might have to see a specialist, or request specific tests based on research. I've found a lot of vets are similar to general care doctors. They only know to start at running full blood panels, and going from there. Its a good start anyways and can give a direction in where to go but then if nothing comes up it can lead to more tests. Even when you do get the right tests, doesn't always mean the doctor knows how to interpret it... and then you have to forward that test to someone that does. Sorry, going on a bit of a rant here since I'm dealing with something similar right now trying to find answers. I hope you find yours.
The biggest problem among the problems with that vet visit is that the woman – well, the techs too – didn't listen to me. I feel like very little of what I said was listened to. I had lots of insight on Oji's symptoms, but it didn't get shared. Could I have called a timeout and been more assertive and tried harder to get said what needed saying? Yes, I guess so.

The whole visit was dominated by the fact that Oji, a muzzled Doberman, was growling. The women were tense and it seemed rushed. Just as I was in the middle of starting to say something with regard to Oji's hind leg position when he sits, and how he has always tended to have one leg or the other sticking out to the side when he hits a sit, and he seems to have always lacked awareness, if not control, of his hind legs to an extent, Oji did his head jerks and that's when the vet said he's escalating, and she wrapped up the visit. Really, I think I got gipped because of fear of my dog. That said, they are also pretty poor listeners.

On a brighter note, I only got charged for an office visit apparently. No exam fee? I don't know if the vet waived the exam fee due to how things went or what.
 
I guess Im pretty fortunate. I really like my vet and feel like the service is good. She loves Dobermans and has owned them in the past. Only problem is every time I see her she threatens to take Rose home with her
 
Sorry to hear this @Oh Little Oji. I know you don't do much travelling by car but I am wondering if you would have better luck with a rural vet. Here in Australia those vets used to handling large animals that also see small animals have a better way of dealing with a dog who isn't happy to be handled.
 
Really, I think I got gipped because of fear of my dog. That said, they are also pretty poor listeners.

On a brighter note, I only got charged for an office visit apparently. No exam fee? I don't know if the vet waived the exam fee due to how things went or what.
I do think they didn't charge because they knew they didn't provide much of a service. I myself would not have paid for that visit given how scared they were. I have, in the past, with my cat, told the vet that the cat doesn't like female doctors and in particular does not like anyone in a white coat. Also, I let them know that I won't be in the room to handle the cat because she really gets out of hand, so the extra forewarning makes them think twice about how serious they are going to take me. I realize a 7 lb cat seems laughable in the face of an 80 lb Doberman, but trust me, that cat is more dangerous lol. Long winded point being that you have to prepare and guide vets ahead of time, and also that you have to research vets beforehand because so many of them are useless. Despite how much research I do, I keep finding things that I don't like, so I'm always trying someone new but never at random. Our current vet has such good command over Kaiser, she really feels like a keeper. I found her by asking our former trainer who also has a Doberman. All these years I never thought to ask her! Maybe you could check your local Doberman group on Facebook? When we got Kaiser as a puppy, I visited several vets just to interview them (I called it a meet and greet because vets are rather full of themselves to be 'interviewed'), so I do know it's possible to get face time with a vet, at no cost.
I've found a lot of vets are similar to general care doctors.
Bingo! When you do find a good vet, make sure they get all the previous records, including additional records that are generated when visiting other types of vets. I have my main vet regularly requesting records from chiro, osteo, or emergency visits. This can save a lot in terms of redoing bloodwork, xrays, etc.

An idea for Oji is to go in with your wife. One of you handle him, and the other focuses on keeping the vet on track and building a discussion that leads towards some sort of plan for how to proceed. I've often said no to certain things they want to try, so you can help guide the decision making too.
He has had a few accidents in the house in recent months. This may be related to a prostate problem, I theorize – this, in addition to my not making sure he really goes potty when I let him out in the backyard sometimes.
I would definitely improve the backyard access to help alleviate pressure on the prostate. Your neighbor needs to get over it. He has an elderly dog, perhaps she be inside instead. What do you think the prostate symptoms are? Kaiser had some blood in his urine so we are now treating him for that - hopefully it will avoid him being neutered!
 

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