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Doberman attacks goats

hunterdobie

hunterdobie

Jr Member
Hi,

Tonight the goats got loose from their paddock and Hunter (7 months old) chased one down repeatedly and was grabbing it by its neck and drew blood and we couldnt get him to leave it alone.
It was pretty intense and unexpected since we haven't seem him behave like that before and I'm just looking for some thoughts on it?
They don't ever get loose, not sure how they did this time yet but I'm not sure of how to react about it/what to do?
They're all safe now and Hunters inside though still fired up.

Thanks for any opinions!!
 
What training have you done with Hunter?i would do some focus obedience training with him, start at a good distance away from the goats fence, slowly after a few sessions get closer and closer to the fence. Demand his attention then play when you have it. You must be in charge, you will be rewarding for focus on you and ignoring the goats. It will be harder now since he has gotten to them once so be firm.
 
That’s that high prey drive.

Once he’s locked in.... it’s hell to get them out.

You have got to stop it before he gets that far gone.

As Dobermangang states, teach focus on you so that one day when it happens again, he will be trained to focus on you and not the goats.

Easier said than done. Lots of time and training to be done.
 
Doberman Gang said:
What training have you done with Hunter?i would do some focus obedience training with him, start at a good distance away from the goats fence, slowly after a few sessions get closer and closer to the fence. Demand his attention then play when you have it. You must be in charge, you will be rewarding for focus on you and ignoring the goats. It will be harder now since he has gotten to them once so be firm.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. I train basic obedience with him daily and I've been working on getting him to come to me when we're outside off leash and focus but there's a lot of distractions and things going on on our property so it's a struggle to maintain it. As soon as he sees rabbits to chase(theyre everywhere) he wont focus on anything else and today the goats were the same deal. Should I get a long lead and just make training with me as fun as possible?
 
hunterdobie said:
Should I get a long lead and just make training with me as fun as possible?
Click to expand...

Yup, that's a good place to start! And he does not get to be off leash until he can prove he can be trusted. He's still a puppy but letting him get away with behaviors now will mean it's harder to correct those behaviors later.

Member @jazzies mum taught her girl to stop going after Australian wildlife (she would kill kangaroo's, I believe!) and has found a lot of benefit to using an eCollar but that is used to reinforce behaviors they already know.
 
hunterdobie said:
Thanks for the reply. I train basic obedience with him daily and I've been working on getting him to come to me when we're outside off leash and focus but there's a lot of distractions and things going on on our property so it's a struggle to maintain it. As soon as he sees rabbits to chase(theyre everywhere) he wont focus on anything else and today the goats were the same deal. Should I get a long lead and just make training with me as fun as possible?
Click to expand...
Yes, exactly. Find a favorite toy that he only gets when you guys are training. Long line is a great way to reinforce him having to come but plating will make it rewarding at the same time.
 
Yep, prey drive and opportunity at such a young age leads to chaos! In hindsight I allowed Jazz too much off leash freedom too early and then had to address the problems that caused. She did know her obedience commands very well, but if the chase was on nothing else mattered to her. The e collar worked very well in my situation where she has to learn to control herself. She is still interested but knows they are off limits. We did do a lot of training with the e collar at home so she understood it's use before we ever put it to the test out in the wilds! Jazz was 13 months old before I decided to use an e collar and it was obvious that she was willfully ignoring my recall command when she had a critter in her sights. I at first made the mistake of getting an e collar without enough range for a fast moving Doberman in chase mode which actually made things worse. Then I invested in a good quality collar with 1.2km range and 127 stim levels.

Antman408 said:
Crazy ass Australian dobermans. Killing kangaroos, killing sheep chasing goats.
Click to expand...
Jazz being Doberman x Ridgeback/mastiff she had all the hunting genes there! If my hubs had still been alive he would have been off with Jazz hunting and they both would have loved it, but I need a dog who is safe to take into polite society. I just couldn't believe how efficient she was, just ran down a roo, grabbed it's head or neck and death shake......dead roo. :shock: I grew up on a farm around hunting dogs who couldn't have done that.
 
jazzies mum said:
Yep, prey drive and opportunity at such a young age leads to chaos! In hindsight I allowed Jazz too much off leash freedom too early and then had to address the problems that caused. She did know her obedience commands very well, but if the chase was on nothing else mattered to her. The e collar worked very well in my situation where she has to learn to control herself. She is still interested but knows they are off limits. We did do a lot of training with the e collar at home so she understood it's use before we ever put it to the test out in the wilds! Jazz was 13 months old before I decided to use an e collar and it was obvious that she was willfully ignoring my recall command when she had a critter in her sights. I at first made the mistake of getting an e collar without enough range for a fast moving Doberman in chase mode which actually made things worse. Then I invested in a good quality collar with 1.2km range and 127 stim levels.


Jazz being Doberman x Ridgeback/mastiff she had all the hunting genes there! If my hubs had still been alive he would have been off with Jazz hunting and they both would have loved it, but I need a dog who is safe to take into polite society. I just couldn't believe how efficient she was, just ran down a roo, grabbed it's head or neck and death shake......dead roo. :shock: I grew up on a farm around hunting dogs who couldn't have done that.
Click to expand...
I'm thinking I might also get an ecollar eventually for training. How do you use it/how did you start using it for when she would chase animals? Not sure of how to go about having him understand that its not acceptable behaviour and reinforce it with the ecollar. I'll probably get a trainer too but I'm curious as to how you do it!

P.S. Thats crazy that she killed a kangaroo WTF (and impressive)
 
hunterdobie said:
Not sure of how to go about having him understand that its not acceptable behaviour and reinforce it with the ecollar.
Click to expand...

There will be better answers with more detail, but basically if Hunter knows that NO means NO, you pair that with the reinforcement of the e-collar. Best to use the reinforcement at the behavior before it escalates. I'd say NO the instant he looked at a goat. Like everyone has said, once they get to catch and bite a critter it becomes 10 x harder and an e-collar is your best bet.
 
hunterdobie said:
I'm thinking I might also get an ecollar eventually for training. How do you use it/how did you start using it for when she would chase animals? Not sure of how to go about having him understand that its not acceptable behaviour and reinforce it with the ecollar. I'll probably get a trainer too but I'm curious as to how you do it!

P.S. Thats crazy that she killed a kangaroo WTF (and impressive)
Click to expand...
There are some good youtube videos on setting up your e collar and finding your dogs basic level and several on teaching the basic commands. If you have access to a trainer to take you and Hunter through the basics of e collar use then all the better.

I spent some time doing home training, getting her used to feeling a low stim and understanding that it meant to come to me. There are many uses for an e collar in training, but as I was targeting the chasing I concentrated on recall to start with. Then I took her out on a long line a few times so she understood that a stim still meant come to me, even with critters distracting her. All this only using the lowest stim so she could properly understand. Finally I had her off leash and we walked where I knew there would be kangaroos and she took off after them. I called her and gave her a stim on continuous and slowly wound the strength up until she stopped. Because we were having to undo a bad habit it took a strong stim of 65 to stop her that first time, and she yelled then bolted back to me when I called and got much praise and treats. The next time about half of that and the third she stopped on the low level stim. They are quick learners and I don't have to give even a low stim very often these days. She controls her own chase instinct most of the time but I still have the e collar on her just in case.

I use the Dogtra Arc e collar which has from level 1 to 127 stim strength, a range of 1.2km and a choice of "nick", "continuous" or vibrate. What I like most about this unit is that you can change the stim level as needed with a dial so no messing around with buttons in the heat of the moment.

I found it very frustrating when she went on the chase, as this was behaviour that I absolutely had to put a stop to! Part of me though was just gobsmacked at the speed, agility, focus and power of a dog doing what they were actually designed for. Rarely do you see your dog using everything they've got, and it's an eye opener! :woot2: Hardest part is to wipe all admiration from your attitude so these clever buggers don't feel ANY approval.
 
jazzies mum said:
There are some good youtube videos on setting up your e collar and finding your dogs basic level and several on teaching the basic commands. If you have access to a trainer to take you and Hunter through the basics of e collar use then all the better.

I spent some time doing home training, getting her used to feeling a low stim and understanding that it meant to come to me. There are many uses for an e collar in training, but as I was targeting the chasing I concentrated on recall to start with. Then I took her out on a long line a few times so she understood that a stim still meant come to me, even with critters distracting her. All this only using the lowest stim so she could properly understand. Finally I had her off leash and we walked where I knew there would be kangaroos and she took off after them. I called her and gave her a stim on continuous and slowly wound the strength up until she stopped. Because we were having to undo a bad habit it took a strong stim of 65 to stop her that first time, and she yelled then bolted back to me when I called and got much praise and treats. The next time about half of that and the third she stopped on the low level stim. They are quick learners and I don't have to give even a low stim very often these days. She controls her own chase instinct most of the time but I still have the e collar on her just in case.

I use the Dogtra Arc e collar which has from level 1 to 127 stim strength, a range of 1.2km and a choice of "nick", "continuous" or vibrate. What I like most about this unit is that you can change the stim level as needed with a dial so no messing around with buttons in the heat of the moment.

I found it very frustrating when she went on the chase, as this was behaviour that I absolutely had to put a stop to! Part of me though was just gobsmacked at the speed, agility, focus and power of a dog doing what they were actually designed for. Rarely do you see your dog using everything they've got, and it's an eye opener! :woot2: Hardest part is to wipe all admiration from your attitude so these clever buggers don't feel ANY approval.
Click to expand...
Thanks so much, all of that is really helpful and I absolutely agree with your last statement - every time Hunter gets into some new mischief its SO difficult to not show that I'm shocked at how smart he is haha.
 
One last thing I should mention on the subject and that is that these dogs seem to NEED that type of intense activity and if we can provide play/training sessions that provide that then they are less likely to go looking for an outlet of their own. I found that the flirt pole and a good intense game of fetch works well and I keep training during these sessions, teaching such useful things like "leave it" so she will stop and ignore her toy, looking at me until I tell her "ok". Jazz will snap to any command in a flash if I am offering her an exciting reward, much more effective than treats with her. :) Usually do something like this before our walks so she has the energy drained a little!
 
jazzies mum said:
Usually do something like this before our walks so she has the energy drained a little!
Click to expand...

A couple of days ago a friend who has two beagles he hunts with and "knows" Mo and Bam told me:
(quoting him..LOL
"You run his bony doberbutt off in the yard THEN you take him for the walk!! You are working harder..not smarter, ya goof!!"

Two mornings in a row...and I have been thinking
"WHY didn't somebody tell me about this magic trick SOONER!!"

SO a big ol' HELLYEAH DITTO......on what jazzies mum wrote!!!
 
Yikes not good!
In Oregon where I live the law states any dog harassing or injuring livestock can be killed immediately .
I understand you live in Australia and the laws may be completely different there.
But this is a behavior you want to put a quick end to.

Dogs are predatory hunters buy nature and once that instinctual drive is tapped it's often hard to suppress or turn off and get under control.
This is not something I have any experience dealing with so I can't offer advise.
I personally don't like E collars ( Electro shocking my dogs to train them is a absolute last resort in my book ) but they do work and have their place.
If chasing livestock results in a very unpleasant electrical shock it will certainly take the fun out of it and will suppress the natural instinct.
I personally would seek the help of a experienced trainer who has dealt with this before.



609.150 Right to kill dog that harms or chases livestock. (1) Except as provided in subsection (3) of this section, any dog, whether licensed or not, which, while off the premises owned or under control of its owner, kills, wounds, or injures any livestock not belonging to the master of such dog, is a public nuisance and may be killed . However, nothing in this section applies to any dog acting under the direction of its master, or the agents or employees of such master.

(2) If any dog, not under the control of its owner or keeper, is found chasing or feeding upon the warm carcass of livestock not the property of such owner or keeper it shall be deemed, prima facie, as engaged in killing, wounding or injuring livestock.


Good luck in correcting this behavior and let us know how it is going.
MR
 
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