Do We Take Them to Court?

[Dobs4ever]

Sosthenes you must forgive me but again in your total lack of understanding - (after all you did buy from a BYB) I can't solve the problems you speak of - Pet people just don't have the knowledge and do not want to do the study necessary to understand all the in and outs of maintaining a healthy gene pool within the purebred dog world. Heck most pet people won't even take the time to TRAIN their darn dog and /or confine them but let them run loose attacking and biting people.

Breeders are EXPERTS at one thing - maintaining the standard, breeding, showing and training. Just how much more do you expect us to do??? I stick with what I know and try to do the very best that I am capable of to support our dogs and good breeding, protect the standard from those to uneducated to understand the very basic concept of why we have a doberman to begin with. I assure you they did not just fall out of the tree a Doberman.

but those standards have to reach a more broad audience than just breeders. Giving all power to the breeder is asking for trouble. Animal husbandry is more than just breeding. It is a mindset in the human that has animals in his charge. The farmer, the policeman, the search & rescue, animal rescue, pet owners, trainers. Businesses like PetSmart & PetCo, these too need to be strictly regulated in how they handle animals in their charge.

Sorry but WHY?? Ever hear too many cooks in the kitchen spoil the broth??? We don't need regulation to do things right - the standard must be our guide. But with ALL the info out there you missed the mark so I should be regulated because you did not do due diligence??? I was breeding to the standard, showing and training long before I ever heard of you. I personallly don't believe you have one good thing to contribute to my breeding program. WHY because you don't know enough and I don't mean that as harsh but it is fact.

Good people do not need to be regulated - it is the bad you want to regulate but then you crush the good who were good anyway - We need standards not regulation. I am not petsmart or petco - I leave that to those who understand retail and all the other stuff - IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BREEDING GOOD DOGS. I know enough to be able to read labels for myself and decided for myself. I don't want a government who is not smart enough to solve it is political corruption regulating me and then taking kickbacks, etc to cheat more than any BYB.

I don't want someone who does not understand in depth what breeding is all about and how it works having input. It is not helpful. You do not need to know all about breeding to be a good pet owner but if you are going to get a purebred dog then it is your responsiblity to go where purebred dogs are (dog shows and trails) and learn before making a purchase. Get to know good breeders who are busy showing and training so they can breed better dogs for you to go to a BYB to buy. GAG GAG GAG

Yes these forms help but too many come after the fact just as you did - untily ou got taken and got mad you were pretty happy and thought you knew how to buy dog. As a knowledgable person you should have at the least been able to read a con artist when you met one.

You talk about getting the word out there but exactly how would you do that??? Should we start a breeders fund where you just send $19.00 a month and we will give you a t shirt and hand bag and we will buy expensive useless lying commercials on TV to make it easy for you to learn??? and act???

No people contriubte to H$uS becasue they believe that are helping animals in need. JQP is too lazy and too dumb to want to take the time to learn. Again sorry but you are pushing all my buttons. I hope we can share ideas but don't tell me someone who knows nothing about breeding should have as much right to decide how I should do it as I do. Blind leading the blind comes to mind.

 

[DocReverto]

I have to agree that people are becoming more and more lazy when it comes to pet ownership. There is so much info out there and people don't care to learn.

I am constantly criticized by friends and family on how much I "spoil" my dogs and how I am taking this to an extreme level.

I do not see it that way, I am striving to educate myself in proper pet ownership and practices. I wish more would do the same.

The problem today is that everyone wants everything handed to them. They won't pay for quality, so they turn to byb's and then bitch when it all goes south. They expect dogs to come well trained, and have no issues. As much as I wish commercials against hsus and nut job ar activists would work. I feel they won't, they have more money then they know what to do with, and it's getting spent o everything but the betterment of animals and shelters worldwide. We need to fight for our rights, fight for maintaining the standard. We need to fight to keep government out of our reputable breeders. This is a battle that won't go away soon, and we need to stay diligent before we see nothing but unhealthy couch potatoes.
If every dog was designed to be treated as a pet, then why do we have groups like working breeds? Things are changing, but not in the direction we need them to be.

 

[Sosthenes]

Sosthenes you must forgive me but again in your total lack of understanding - (after all you did buy from a BYB) I can't solve the problems you speak of - Pet people just don't have the knowledge and do not want to do the study necessary to understand all the in and outs of maintaining a healthy gene pool within the purebred dog world. Heck most pet people won't even take the time to TRAIN their darn dog and /or confine them but let them run loose attacking and biting people.

Breeders are EXPERTS at one thing - maintaining the standard, breeding, showing and training. Just how much more do you expect us to do??? I stick with what I know and try to do the very best that I am capable of to support our dogs and good breeding, protect the standard from those to uneducated to understand the very basic concept of why we have a doberman to begin with. I assure you they did not just fall out of the tree a Doberman.



Sorry but WHY?? Ever hear too many cooks in the kitchen spoil the broth??? We don't need regulation to do things right - the standard must be our guide. But with ALL the info out there you missed the mark so I should be regulated because you did not do due diligence??? I was breeding to the standard, showing and training long before I ever heard of you. I personallly don't believe you have one good thing to contribute to my breeding program. WHY because you don't know enough and I don't mean that as harsh but it is fact.

Good people do not need to be regulated - it is the bad you want to regulate but then you crush the good who were good anyway - We need standards not regulation. I am not petsmart or petco - I leave that to those who understand retail and all the other stuff - IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BREEDING GOOD DOGS. I know enough to be able to read labels for myself and decided for myself. I don't want a government who is not smart enough to solve it is political corruption regulating me and then taking kickbacks, etc to cheat more than any BYB.

I don't want someone who does not understand in depth what breeding is all about and how it works having input. It is not helpful. You do not need to know all about breeding to be a good pet owner but if you are going to get a purebred dog then it is your responsiblity to go where purebred dogs are (dog shows and trails) and learn before making a purchase. Get to know good breeders who are busy showing and training so they can breed better dogs for you to go to a BYB to buy. GAG GAG GAG

Yes these forms help but too many come after the fact just as you did - untily ou got taken and got mad you were pretty happy and thought you knew how to buy dog. As a knowledgable person you should have at the least been able to read a con artist when you met one.

You talk about getting the word out there but exactly how would you do that??? Should we start a breeders fund where you just send $19.00 a month and we will give you a t shirt and hand bag and we will buy expensive useless lying commercials on TV to make it easy for you to learn??? and act???

No people contriubte to H$uS becasue they believe that are helping animals in need. JQP is too lazy and too dumb to want to take the time to learn. Again sorry but you are pushing all my buttons. I hope we can share ideas but don't tell me someone who knows nothing about breeding should have as much right to decide how I should do it as I do. Blind leading the blind comes to mind.

D4E...You are one of the most arrogant bastards I have ever read. You seem to be so in love with yourself that you desire to make your language hurtful not helpful. You consider yourself to be one of the good people. Sorry pal, there are no good people. Righteous people do not brag or boast, but you are so full of yourself you can't help but to do either.

Actually, you are just another smart ass, so you know what you can do, right?

 

[DocReverto]

D4E...You are one of the most arrogant bastards I have ever read. You seem to be so in love with yourself that you desire to make your language hurtful not helpful. You consider yourself to be one of the good people. Sorry pal, there are no good people. Righteous people do not brag or boast, but you are so full of yourself you can't help but to do either.

Actually, you are just another smart ass, so you know what you can do, right?

Woah woah woah!

 

[Sosthenes]

Woah woah woah!

I agree........whoa, whoa, whoa with the hurtful language. I don't give a hoot who someone is, hurtful language is unproductive.

 

[DocReverto]

To me calling her an "arrogant bastard" is more harsh then anything she said to you.

 

[JanS]

Easy guys. I think there is some misunderstanding in the wording of some of these things, so lets just step back and take a deep breath. I've been there and done that with a less than reputable breeder, even though I "thought" I did my research and it was a major struggle to bring him out of his shell, so it is a lot of work to say the least.

 

[Sosthenes]

To me calling her an "arrogant bastard" is more harsh then anything she said to you.

Yes, it was harsh, but true. I have no time for someone who thinks so highly that they place themselves above others, and if that is not what they are doing then they need to learn how to talk constructively without belittling others.

 

[DocReverto]

Jan is right, this has reached that point.

 

[Sosthenes]

Jan is right, this has reached that point.

Well, I didn't cut her throat in a public forum. She chose her language and appears to be quite good at it.

 

[Gelcoater]

Easy guys. I think there is some misunderstanding in the wording of some of these things, so lets just step back and take a deep breath. I've been there and done that with a less than reputable breeder, even though I "thought" I did my research and it was a major struggle to bring him out of his shell, so it is a lot of work to say the least.

I don't think there's any misunderstanding of the use of "arrogant bastard"

Well, I didn't cut her throat in a public forum. She chose her language and appears to be quite good at it.

I agree she's rather good at it and keeps her cool without resorting to name calling.

Sosthens,I told ya the other day she's female when you refered to her as "he",maybe you missed it?

 

[Ataro]

This is going to be my last post in this thread, but let me just say one thing: belittling anyone generally does not get them to agree with you. And no, I don't believe information is widely available for the general public in places that they actually look. I know everyone would want Dobe owners to be as enthusiastic as they are to buy calendars/T-shirts/whatever. But some people aren't. And that doesn't make them a bad owner if they are doing right by their dog. Some people also don't feel the need to have to congregate with other Dobermann owners (I don't - bar this forum, in fact most of the Dobe owners I've met here in real life have pissed me off).

It's like twitter - I don't use it, why should I? But everyone does. I'm young, but I know the Internet hasn't been around forever and neither have forums like this one. The problem is that most knowledge of pet purchasing comes down from the parents to the children. If the parents haven't a clue, mostly their kids when they become adults (the majority) are not going to try to seek out further information unless they have something specific in mind e.g. showing or dog sports.

The reason those rescue/adoption campaigns don't work is because they just play on emotions without really educating people about facts. They tell you to adopt. They don't tell you how the animals got there in the first place, and this is one thing that really bugs me. Yes, I do think animal welfare is very important and I'm not about to rant about organizations, but you have to give the whole picture = all the information. Just like with spaying and neutering. Don't just trick the public into thinking everything is good or everything is bad, people aren't stupid and they eventually wake up (or at least most of them do), and then the bad taste has already been left in their mouths and they don't want to deal with breeders/rescues/whatever.

That said, I don't want to get into C&D standards again, it's been discussed enough, and nobody cares about how to breed a dog because the majority of the people do not breed. They want to know how to BUY a good dog. If they find an ethical breeder (by following all the check points off the list), they are still not going to give a shit about the standard - whether their dog's angulation is great or not. That stuff is unimportant for people who do not show. What's important for pet people is: health and temperament. They just don't know that conformation and working ability generally go along with that.

It really annoys me when people try to belittle pet owners, because let's be honest: what percentage of Dobermanns go to a working/show home? I would say in the minority. Give good pet owners a bit more credit. Ignorance is curable, but if you ignore the ignorant it's doing no one any favours. And certainly not helping to enlighten them. Everyone started somewhere, with nothing. As much as a bunch of people have tried to tell me before that you have to have references etc. to get a good dog, well that is bullshit. You don't want to sell to nobodies? Then that just promotes BYB, sorry. If the person is ignorant and wants a dog - don't turn them away, point them in the right direction. The "I told you so" attitude doesn't really apply, because obviously they would not have made the mistake if someone actually HAD told them so.

/end rant. Hate mail welcome in my inbox, I don't want this thread to go off topic and become one big screaming match.

 

[DocReverto]

This is going to be my last post in this thread, but let me just say one thing: belittling anyone generally does not get them to agree with you. And no, I don't believe information is widely available for the general public in places that they actually look. I know everyone would want Dobe owners to be as enthusiastic as they are to buy calendars/T-shirts/whatever. But some people aren't. And that doesn't make them a bad owner if they are doing right by their dog. Some people also don't feel the need to have to congregate with other Dobermann owners (I don't - bar this forum, in fact most of the Dobe owners I've met here in real life have pissed me off).

It's like twitter - I don't use it, why should I? But everyone does. I'm young, but I know the Internet hasn't been around forever and neither have forums like this one. The problem is that most knowledge of pet purchasing comes down from the parents to the children. If the parents haven't a clue, mostly their kids when they become adults (the majority) are not going to try to seek out further information unless they have something specific in mind e.g. showing or dog sports.

The reason those rescue/adoption campaigns don't work is because they just play on emotions without really educating people about facts. They tell you to adopt. They don't tell you how the animals got there in the first place, and this is one thing that really bugs me. Yes, I do think animal welfare is very important and I'm not about to rant about organizations, but you have to give the whole picture = all the information. Just like with spaying and neutering. Don't just trick the public into thinking everything is good or everything is bad, people aren't stupid and they eventually wake up (or at least most of them do), and then the bad taste has already been left in their mouths and they don't want to deal with breeders/rescues/whatever.

That said, I don't want to get into C&D standards again, it's been discussed enough, and nobody cares about how to breed a dog because the majority of the people do not breed. They want to know how to BUY a good dog. If they find an ethical breeder (by following all the check points off the list), they are still not going to give a shit about the standard - whether their dog's angulation is great or not. That stuff is unimportant for people who do not show. What's important for pet people is: health and temperament. They just don't know that conformation and working ability generally go along with that.

It really annoys me when people try to belittle pet owners, because let's be honest: what percentage of Dobermanns go to a working/show home? I would say in the minority. Give good pet owners a bit more credit. Ignorance is curable, but if you ignore the ignorant it's doing no one any favours. And certainly not helping to enlighten them. Everyone started somewhere, with nothing. As much as a bunch of people have tried to tell me before that you have to have references etc. to get a good dog, well that is bullshit. You don't want to sell to nobodies? Then that just promotes BYB, sorry. If the person is ignorant and wants a dog - don't turn them away, point them in the right direction. The "I told you so" attitude doesn't really apply, because obviously they would not have made the mistake if someone actually HAD told them so.

/end rant. Hate mail welcome in my inbox, I don't want this thread to go off topic and become one big screaming match.

I didn't do it....lol.

 

[Sosthenes]

This is going to be my last post in this thread, but let me just say one thing: belittling anyone generally does not get them to agree with you. And no, I don't believe information is widely available for the general public in places that they actually look. I know everyone would want Dobe owners to be as enthusiastic as they are to buy calendars/T-shirts/whatever. But some people aren't. And that doesn't make them a bad owner if they are doing right by their dog. Some people also don't feel the need to have to congregate with other Dobermann owners (I don't - bar this forum, in fact most of the Dobe owners I've met here in real life have pissed me off).

It's like twitter - I don't use it, why should I? But everyone does. I'm young, but I know the Internet hasn't been around forever and neither have forums like this one. The problem is that most knowledge of pet purchasing comes down from the parents to the children. If the parents haven't a clue, mostly their kids when they become adults (the majority) are not going to try to seek out further information unless they have something specific in mind e.g. showing or dog sports.

The reason those rescue/adoption campaigns don't work is because they just play on emotions without really educating people about facts. They tell you to adopt. They don't tell you how the animals got there in the first place, and this is one thing that really bugs me. Yes, I do think animal welfare is very important and I'm not about to rant about organizations, but you have to give the whole picture = all the information. Just like with spaying and neutering. Don't just trick the public into thinking everything is good or everything is bad, people aren't stupid and they eventually wake up (or at least most of them do), and then the bad taste has already been left in their mouths and they don't want to deal with breeders/rescues/whatever.

That said, I don't want to get into C&D standards again, it's been discussed enough, and nobody cares about how to breed a dog because the majority of the people do not breed. They want to know how to BUY a good dog. If they find an ethical breeder (by following all the check points off the list), they are still not going to give a shit about the standard - whether their dog's angulation is great or not. That stuff is unimportant for people who do not show. What's important for pet people is: health and temperament. They just don't know that conformation and working ability generally go along with that.

It really annoys me when people try to belittle pet owners, because let's be honest: what percentage of Dobermanns go to a working/show home? I would say in the minority. Give good pet owners a bit more credit. Ignorance is curable, but if you ignore the ignorant it's doing no one any favours. And certainly not helping to enlighten them. Everyone started somewhere, with nothing. As much as a bunch of people have tried to tell me before that you have to have references etc. to get a good dog, well that is bullshit. You don't want to sell to nobodies? Then that just promotes BYB, sorry. If the person is ignorant and wants a dog - don't turn them away, point them in the right direction. The "I told you so" attitude doesn't really apply, because obviously they would not have made the mistake if someone actually HAD told them so.

/end rant. Hate mail welcome in my inbox, I don't want this thread to go off topic and become one big screaming match.

Thank you for your post. I agree that the ignorant(unaware)are not the enemy. Not having the right information leaves us at the mercies of the unscrupulous breeders, trainers and others in the K-9 business. To tell you the truth, the reason why we went with someone like Savannah was that she was believable, the sire and dam were good examples of the temperament we wanted, there was no arrogance in our dealings with her(during the sale), she was accommodating and it didn't break the bank buying from her. I do not regret having Cato as our family member and that is what he is, nothing more, nothing less. He is not worshiped, but he is very much loved and that love is returned.

We stayed away from professional breeders because of the very same attitudes I ran into in this forum today. We like and love humble people and stay away from the opposite as they never seem to be productive and willing to share their knowledge in a constructive way.

I too am finished with this thread, but my mail box is always open.

 

[JanS]

Well, I didn't cut her throat in a public forum. She chose her language and appears to be quite good at it.

I'm not throwing blame on anyone, and it needs to go back on topic if this thread is going to remain open for further comments.

You are both great members with a lot to contribute to the community, so there's no point letting disagreements like this get in the way for our love of the breed.

 

[Dobs4ever]

WOW seems I have poked the Tiger and I have to admit I could have worded things better but in an effort to get someone who does not know about good breeding practices to have a little understanding I could have said it differenlty.

It is not that I am so good but that good brreders have spent years studying pedigrees, genetics, health issue, pheoptype, genotype, Euro lines, American lines, the history of the Doberman since it inception, the great breders who brought us to today and on and on.

If you took offense then I guess the shoe fits. I in no way would belittle a pet owner BUT I think I am correct in saying they know precious little about breeding, genetics, pedigrees, phenotype, genotype, health issues, training, showing - ahhhhh need I go on???

Pet owners want a good pet they could care less about any of the rest of it. If they get into trouble then they come on a list like this or hopefully they have a good breeder who is there, answers e mails, phone calls etc. to help. But they all think that because they have suddenly had a revelation that the rest of us have not been working on it for years.

Some of my most wonderful families are pet owners - forever. Some have gotten more involved as I encourage them - I don't care as long as the dog is well cared for and trained responsibliy and I can help them better understand the side of the breeder so we have a great relationship.

My families KNOW that the can come to me with anything.

If I got carried away because suddenly you think you know enough to suddenly start regulating breeders then yes I beg to differ.

I am not mad at you - but I do call it as I see it. I guess some folks call that arrogrant. I do try very hard to not come across like that but sometimes you just come across that way regardless. You made a mistake and now you want to slam the hammer down like you are the only one to ever got taken by a slick con artist.

I have tried to answer all your questions openly and honestly - You did not have a bad tail dock and you did not have a bad crop. One tiny pulled stitch does not mean a botched tail job - one cyst is not a bad crop. Just you have never dealt with any of it and you suddenly want to sue everyone.

I just tried to defuse the situation and get you to see you would be waisting your time as you did not know what you were looking at.

So you can call me all the names you like but I stand by what I said - the problen is too many people who don't know what they are talking about are sticking their noses in a business they know nothing about and would therefore have nothing positive to contribute. To be a good breeder you have to earn every single stripe. Blood sweat and tears.

Your solution is to let the government regulate it. well to that I say GAG - then you will have real problems as we have seen in other countries who regulate breeding. You have been all around the horn in this thread - I have tried to stay with you and address the issues you bring up mostly due to your lack of understanding. And that is the biggest problem with trying to educate some folks - they really only want you to agree with them and if not well they resort to name calling and other childish tactics to distract the readers.

We like and love humble people and stay away from the opposite as they never seem to be productive and willing to share their knowledge in a constructive way.{/QUOTE]

How did that work for you???

 

[Sosthenes]

WOW seems I have poked the Tiger and I have to admit I could have worded things better but in an effort to get someone who does not know about good breeding practices to have a little understanding I could have said it differenlty.

It is not that I am so good but that good brreders have spent years studying pedigrees, genetics, health issue, pheoptype, genotype, Euro lines, American lines, the history of the Doberman since it inception, the great breders who brought us to today and on and on.

If you took offense then I guess the shoe fits. I in no way would belittle a pet owner BUT I think I am correct in saying they know precious little about breeding, genetics, pedigrees, phenotype, genotype, health issues, training, showing - ahhhhh need I go on???

Pet owners want a good pet they could care less about any of the rest of it. If they get into trouble then they come on a list like this or hopefully they have a good breeder who is there, answers e mails, phone calls etc. to help. But they all think that because they have suddenly had a revelation that the rest of us have not been working on it for years.

Some of my most wonderful families are pet owners - forever. Some have gotten more involved as I encourage them - I don't care as long as the dog is well cared for and trained responsibliy and I can help them better understand the side of the breeder so we have a great relationship.

My families KNOW that the can come to me with anything.

If I got carried away because suddenly you think you know enough to suddenly start regulating breeders then yes I beg to differ.

I am not mad at you - but I do call it as I see it. I guess some folks call that arrogrant. I do try very hard to not come across like that but sometimes you just come across that way regardless. You made a mistake and now you want to slam the hammer down like you are the only one to ever got taken by a slick con artist.

I have tried to answer all your questions openly and honestly - You did not have a bad tail dock and you did not have a bad crop. One tiny pulled stitch does not mean a botched tail job - one cyst is not a bad crop. Just you have never dealt with any of it and you suddenly want to sue everyone.

I just tried to defuse the situation and get you to see you would be waisting your time as you did not know what you were looking at.

So you can call me all the names you like but I stand by what I said - the problen is too many people who don't know what they are talking about are sticking their noses in a business they know nothing about and would therefore have nothing positive to contribute. To be a good breeder you have to earn every single stripe. Blood sweat and tears.

Your solution is to let the government regulate it. well to that I say GAG - then you will have real problems as we have seen in other countries who regulate breeding. You have been all around the horn in this thread - I have tried to stay with you and address the issues you bring up mostly due to your lack of understanding. And that is the biggest problem with trying to educate some folks - they really only want you to agree with them and if not well they resort to name calling and other childish tactics to distract the readers.

In all fairness I have to answer. You have misjudged me and why I came to this forum. I came here to have some fun and to learn more about the breed. No ones opinion should ever be regarded as "The Law." You further mistake me as someone who loves laws or government. Wrong. I dislike government with a passion maybe as much as you seem to dislike it. True, our lives would be much better with less law and less government, but some things need to be regulated and your written words prove my point. You are arrogant and as a breeder of Dobermans you should strive for humbleness. The humble usually need not be as regulated as the arrogant. It is all about attitude, nothing more. There are humble folks that are breeders the same as arrogant folks that breed Dobermans. Now, please do not accuse me of coming in here for answers to my problems. I don't have a damn problem, but I did have questions. Is that a crime? If so, I plead guilty as hell. If you will recall, my questions were about vets and poor surgical practices. This forum turned it into a witch hunt for Savannah Poole or Lancaster. Yes, she is a byb. So was everyone at one time or another. My worries started when I learned she was breeding Z Factor Dobes. I never knew this before I purchased Cato. My problems with Savannah are history, but my concerns with vets are on going.

If I hurt you or anyone in this forum I apologize, so quit implying that I am stupid. Oh, and I may not be as uninformed as you accuse me of. One thing for sure, I would never buy a dog for perfect conformation and I'm not convinced that Sch is necessary to have a Doberman to protect my family.

Pride is a deadly enemy and needs to be treated as such. Learn some humility and be the best breeder you can be.

 

[Sosthenes]

I didn't do it....lol.

 

[Sosthenes]

WOW seems I have poked the Tiger and I have to admit I could have worded things better but in an effort to get someone who does not know about good breeding practices to have a little understanding I could have said it differenlty.

It is not that I am so good but that good brreders have spent years studying pedigrees, genetics, health issue, pheoptype, genotype, Euro lines, American lines, the history of the Doberman since it inception, the great breders who brought us to today and on and on.

If you took offense then I guess the shoe fits. I in no way would belittle a pet owner BUT I think I am correct in saying they know precious little about breeding, genetics, pedigrees, phenotype, genotype, health issues, training, showing - ahhhhh need I go on???

Pet owners want a good pet they could care less about any of the rest of it. If they get into trouble then they come on a list like this or hopefully they have a good breeder who is there, answers e mails, phone calls etc. to help. But they all think that because they have suddenly had a revelation that the rest of us have not been working on it for years.

Some of my most wonderful families are pet owners - forever. Some have gotten more involved as I encourage them - I don't care as long as the dog is well cared for and trained responsibliy and I can help them better understand the side of the breeder so we have a great relationship.

My families KNOW that the can come to me with anything.

If I got carried away because suddenly you think you know enough to suddenly start regulating breeders then yes I beg to differ.

I am not mad at you - but I do call it as I see it. I guess some folks call that arrogrant. I do try very hard to not come across like that but sometimes you just come across that way regardless. You made a mistake and now you want to slam the hammer down like you are the only one to ever got taken by a slick con artist.

I have tried to answer all your questions openly and honestly - You did not have a bad tail dock and you did not have a bad crop. One tiny pulled stitch does not mean a botched tail job - one cyst is not a bad crop. Just you have never dealt with any of it and you suddenly want to sue everyone.

I just tried to defuse the situation and get you to see you would be waisting your time as you did not know what you were looking at.

So you can call me all the names you like but I stand by what I said - the problen is too many people who don't know what they are talking about are sticking their noses in a business they know nothing about and would therefore have nothing positive to contribute. To be a good breeder you have to earn every single stripe. Blood sweat and tears.

Your solution is to let the government regulate it. well to that I say GAG - then you will have real problems as we have seen in other countries who regulate breeding. You have been all around the horn in this thread - I have tried to stay with you and address the issues you bring up mostly due to your lack of understanding. And that is the biggest problem with trying to educate some folks - they really only want you to agree with them and if not well they resort to name calling and other childish tactics to distract the readers.

Loving humble people is saying we love a humble spirit. So in that regard it has always worked well for us. Oh yes, saying that you are an arrogant bastard is just drawing attention to your attitudes. If I had said you were a sour grape you would have laughed it off. Arrogant bastard was to get your attention of just how your words hurt. Be humble, I am not your enemy.

 

[DocReverto]

The only questionable thing was her breeding of Z Factor Dobes, but there was no Z Factor in this sire and none in Cato's dam so no worries there.

Not trying to be a jerk here but....

My worries started when I learned she was breeding Z Factor Dobes. I never knew this before I purchased Cato. My problems with Savannah are history, but my concerns with vets are on going.