Do We Take Them to Court?

[Sosthenes]

When our Cato had his ears cropped and his tail docked he suffered from an infection in his ears that took months to treat. We could squeeze puss from one of his ears, but both were infected. His tail docking looked like a terrible mistake, but everyone said not to worry about it that it would improve in time. Now Cato is at the vet this morning because he has cartilage protruding from one of his ears. This morning I am of the mind to go after the butcher that did this to a beautiful Doberman. If he were born a show prospect he could never compete. While we had no intent on ever showing Cato in a conformation ring, the idea that this dog has been marred is leaving me with a very sick feeling in my stomach. I do not know if Cato's problems can ever be resolved, but I have to admit that if that surgeon were standing close by, I would not hesitate one moment in cropping his ears and docking his tail. We don't know whether or not to take legal action. Any suggestions?

 

[DocReverto]

I would contact a lawyer but most likely they are going to pull this was an "elective, and unnecessary" surgery card on you. Did you sign any fine print?

 

[Dobs4ever]

Personally you do not have a leg to stand on. Most of what you are talking about are problems that develop AFTER the crop when a puppy pops a stitch - I have never heard of cartilage proturding from an ear. Even though my puppies have popped hundreds of stitches this just does not happen - It is possible that a stitch was left in and it created a sore but sounds to me like no one really understands about ear cropping or tail docking or what you are actually looking at.

All surgery is risky and you have to sign a release before they even do surgery but they are not responsibel for aftercare - ear infections sometimes do happen not a suing matter at all.

It is not a suing matter however and would just seem like someone looking to make a fast buck. I would put my anger where it belongs - the breeder who did not do their job and take care of all this before placing the puppy.

 

[DocReverto]

Are their not places that can fix poor crops? I thought I had read that somewhere, possibly something to look in to if the crop bothers you or Cato.

 

[Sosthenes]

I would contact a lawyer but most likely they are going to pull this was an "elective, and unnecessary" surgery card on you. Did you sign any fine print?

No, but my contract to purchase Cato from the breeder included a fee for having the ears & tail done. Because I had read so many complaints against this vet, I had told the breeder under no circumstances was this vet to be used. The day I was given instructions on how to care for the ears, the instructions were given by the vet I didn't want used. The breeder knew of the infection as did others on Facebook, but she never made any attempt to reimburse to additional vet bills. Perhaps my gripe is with the breeder.

 

[DocReverto]

I think you just figured it out. Suzan is right, the anger should be directed towards the breeder. Next time I would look for a breeder who uses a high quality vet, and has the consistent results to prove it.

 

[Sosthenes]

Personally you do not have a leg to stand on. Most of what you are talking about are problems that develop AFTER the crop when a puppy pops a stitch - I have never heard of cartilage proturding from an ear. Even though my puppies have popped hundreds of stitches this just does not happen - It is possible that a stitch was left in and it created a sore but sounds to me like no one really understands about ear cropping or tail docking or what you are actually looking at.

All surgery is risky and you have to sign a release before they even do surgery but they are not responsibel for aftercare - ear infections sometimes do happen not a suing matter at all.

It is not a suing matter however and would just seem like someone looking to make a fast buck. I would put my anger where it belongs - the breeder who did not do their job and take care of all this before placing the puppy.

I will quickly assure you that no one here is trying to make a fast buck. At this point Cato does not know he has a wrongly cropped ear. I say this freely as I have plenty of evidence of a bad cropping. Our vet stated that the stitching was too far apart so they treated the infection as best they could. Because the breeder had the tail and ears done, I did not sign anything. If she did I am not privy to what she signed.

 

[Dobs4ever]

I will quickly assure you that no one here is trying to make a fast buck.

I made that statement because there is a total lack of understanding on ear cropping and aftercare by your vets, yourself and your breeder. I did not say you were as you are inquiring and trying to find help. But too many today are sue happy and most of it is because they do not have the correct facts.

I have never ever seen any vet like what another vet does especaily when tied to ear cropping. It is a vet thing and a great way to suck money out of an unspspecting new owner. Ears heal in 10 days stitches are out. and the chance of actual ear infection and puss is past. Was Cato on antibiotics after the crop??? Mine are given a shot at the vets and then start pills the next day. I think a stitche was left in to fester and creat the "cartilage" ROFLOL that they vet is seeing.

After that many vets call swelling infections when it is not. It is edema and it does look bad but a shot of dex clears it right up so if you were dealing with ear infections and puss a stitch was left in. You do not want to stictch too close as you run the risk of more scarring. Sounds to me like you are getting poor advice all the way around and the breeder was dumb if you let a client dictate to here who croppped the ears.

I give all my puppies a shot of dex just before they go to their families.

As a breeder I chose a vet based on his knowledge and expertise on cropping. Clients don't even dictate the type of crop they want or the vet. I want a beautiful med show crop with a minimum of hassle which is why I keep puppies til the ears are healed and the danger of ear infection is past. Now if they are not kept clean and posted regularly especially in summer they sweat more so more moisture and that set up a different kind of infection that really has nothing to do wtih the cropping.

 

[Rits]

No, but my contract to purchase Cato from the breeder included a fee for having the ears & tail done. Because I had read so many complaints against this vet, I had told the breeder under no circumstances was this vet to be used. The day I was given instructions on how to care for the ears, the instructions were given by the vet I didn't want used. The breeder knew of the infection as did others on Facebook, but she never made any attempt to reimburse to additional vet bills. Perhaps my gripe is with the breeder.

At that point, if it bothered you so much you should have backed out from purchasing a pup from this breeder. If you aren't comfortable with the choices the breeder made/was going to make then, in hindsight, it would have been better to go elsewhere. Now you are having to deal with the problems, sorry to hear you are having these troubles. I agree there is not much you can do from this point.

I'm not sure how old Cato is and if he is too old for a recrop. I personally wouldn't worry about it since you aren't wanting to show and if it's not a major eyesore.

 

[Sosthenes]

At that point, if it bothered you so much you should have backed out from purchasing a pup from this breeder. If you aren't comfortable with the choices the breeder made/was going to make then, in hindsight, it would have been better to go elsewhere. Now you are having to deal with the problems, sorry to hear you are having these troubles. I agree there is not much you can do from this point.

I'm not sure how old Cato is and if he is too old for a recrop. I personally wouldn't worry about it since you aren't wanting to show and if it's not a major eyesore.

Cato is 10 months old. If the vets could clip this cartilage away and put in a new stitch or two it might fix the problem. I didn't know the vet she picked was the vet in question. They have about 6 or more offices and clinics in the Cincinnati area. At the time I felt as though that Cato was OK, but within a couple of days he was infected. I believe this is a breeder who used a bad vet clinic with a history of problems with infections. I'm pretty sure that this is my problem and no recourse is necessary. I wanted the opinions of others in this chat room.

 

[Sosthenes]

I made that statement because there is a total lack of understanding on ear cropping and aftercare by your vets, yourself and your breeder. I did not say you were as you are inquiring and trying to find help. But too many today are sue happy and most of it is because they do not have the correct facts.

I have never ever seen any vet like what another vet does especaily when tied to ear cropping. It is a vet thing and a great way to suck money out of an unspspecting new owner. Ears heal in 10 days stitches are out. and the chance of actual ear infection and puss is past. Was Cato on antibiotics after the crop??? Mine are given a shot at the vets and then start pills the next day. I think a stitche was left in to fester and creat the "cartilage" ROFLOL that they vet is seeing.

After that many vets call swelling infections when it is not. It is edema and it does look bad but a shot of dex clears it right up so if you were dealing with ear infections and puss a stitch was left in. You do not want to stictch too close as you run the risk of more scarring. Sounds to me like you are getting poor advice all the way around and the breeder was dumb if you let a client dictate to here who croppped the ears.

I give all my puppies a shot of dex just before they go to their families.

As a breeder I chose a vet based on his knowledge and expertise on cropping. Clients don't even dictate the type of crop they want or the vet. I want a beautiful med show crop with a minimum of hassle which is why I keep puppies til the ears are healed and the danger of ear infection is past. Now if they are not kept clean and posted regularly especially in summer they sweat more so more moisture and that set up a different kind of infection that really has nothing to do wtih the cropping.

Cato just returned from the vet. He weighs 80.7# and the vet wants him off puppy food. I have been told many times to leave him on puppy food for a year. The ear issue....it is not cartilage, but a cyst right at the edge of the ear. Their advise is to leave it alone unless it begins to weep. Cato was a natural twin so he may never get much larger than he is right now. That is a little upsetting to me as his father was a large Dobe which is what I wanted. Oh well.......BTW, thanks for your input. It is valuable to me.

 

[Lizzard]

Well this is not a great situation for you... sorry about that. But I'd go to the breeder about it. They should, at the very least, know that things did not go well with the vet they chose to use. You may not be able to do anything at all, but at least you can give them feedback.

Whoever did Marco's tail cut it ON THE BONE of #4 - basically cut bone #4 in half. We found this out when he had an xray done at our vet, and the doctor pointed out that his tail was improperly docked. I told our breeder just so she would know, but I have no idea what she did with the info... if she still uses the same vet, etc. Marco used to always bite at his tail, you could tell it annoyed him. Our vet said in time it will not be an issue, and this seems to be the case as there is much less tail-biting going on these days.

So, take your gripe to your breeder, then if anyone asks you "oh where did you get that lovely doberman?" you can tell them the whole story.

 

[Doberman Gang]

Cato just returned from the vet. He weighs 80.7# and the vet wants him off puppy food. I have been told many times to leave him on puppy food for a year. The ear issue....it is not cartilage, but a cyst right at the edge of the ear. Their advise is to leave it alone unless it begins to weep. Cato was a natural twin so he may never get much larger than he is right now. That is a little upsetting to me as his father was a large Dobe which is what I wanted. Oh well.......BTW, thanks for your input. It is valuable to me.

Sounds line he is just about the right size to me. He will still put a few pounds on over the next year or so. Male Dobermans are supposed to be between 70-85 pounds. It sounds like a backyard breeding if she is breeding male a lot larger than that. Do you know if she does any health testing on her dogs?

 

[Panama]

The procedure itself isn't going to cause infection... it's the after care, or rather the lack of proper after care that would cause an infection. Do you know if the ears were completely wrapped right after the crop? Or were they put up on a cup?

 

[Sosthenes]

Sounds line he is just about the right size to me. He will still put a few pounds on over the next year or so. Male Dobermans are supposed to be between 70-85 pounds. It sounds like a backyard breeding if she is breeding male a lot larger than that. Do you know if she does any health testing on her dogs?

Yes....somewhat. She has told me that she vet checks both her male and the bitch to be bred. I don't believe that there are no genetic issues and both parents are sound. Her contracts state that if there are any serious health issues within one year of delivery, she will take the pup back and refund the monies.

 

[Sosthenes]

The procedure itself isn't going to cause infection... it's the after care, or rather the lack of proper after care that would cause an infection. Do you know if the ears were completely wrapped right after the crop? Or were they put up on a cup?

Neither. the ears were exposed. Wrapping or posting didn't begin until two weeks or so. No cups were used. The ears were shaped and a line of suture held the ears in place for 10 days. When our vet saw this, he immediately removed the extra suture and medicated the ears.

 

[Sosthenes]

Well this is not a great situation for you... sorry about that. But I'd go to the breeder about it. They should, at the very least, know that things did not go well with the vet they chose to use. You may not be able to do anything at all, but at least you can give them feedback.

Whoever did Marco's tail cut it ON THE BONE of #4 - basically cut bone #4 in half. We found this out when he had an xray done at our vet, and the doctor pointed out that his tail was improperly docked. I told our breeder just so she would know, but I have no idea what she did with the info... if she still uses the same vet, etc. Marco used to always bite at his tail, you could tell it annoyed him. Our vet said in time it will not be an issue, and this seems to be the case as there is much less tail-biting going on these days.

So, take your gripe to your breeder, then if anyone asks you "oh where did you get that lovely doberman?" you can tell them the whole story.

Thanks!

 

[Panama]

They strung the ears up? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "a line of suture held the ears in place". I've seen the cups, ears taped over the top of the head and ears just left loose, but I've never known them to use a 'stringing" method on puppy ears.

 

[DocReverto]

I'm starting to be more and more curious about this breeder. Dobermangang is right that's a good size. This breed is meant to work and much larger then that inhibits this ability. To many people are breeding for size. Cato will continue to grow and fill out up until 18 months if I'm not mistaken. I hope next time you find a breeder you are more comfortable with. We all make mistakes, and this is a good learning experience.

With my pups I didn't get them until the ears had healed, and I had no say in the length of the crop or tail. You have to find a breeder you trust to make proper decisions in regards to this.
Looking at prior litters from your breeder is a good indicator on how your pups ears and tails will look.

 

[Sosthenes]

They strung the ears up? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "a line of suture held the ears in place". I've seen the cups, ears taped over the top of the head and ears just left loose, but I've never known them to use a 'stringing" method on puppy ears.

This is very difficult to explain, but, the ears were brought closely together and a hard or thick suture held the ears in place. Our vet said that were opposed to that type of cropping. When gently touching the suture it was obviously painful to Cato, so we made an appointment that very day. We had no idea of the seriousness of the infection until we saw the vet squeeze out some of the puss. Needless to say, I was really pissed, but the vet, in a way talked me out of dealing with the other vet.