Robin, Cato is 10+ months old and very happy. His suffering with the ears is long past, but thanks for your concern for his welfare.
Do We Take Them to Court?
- Thread starter Sosthenes
- Start date
Robin, Cato is 10+ months old and very happy. His suffering with the ears is long past, but thanks for your concern for his welfare.
Thunderheart
Jr Member
Awesome . . . I'm still attempting to navigate my way through all the feeds. I should pay more attention to the dates. . . lol.
Rits
Hot Topics Subscriber
I think the reason it turned into about the breeder is because of the choice of vet the breeder chooses to use for ear cropping. I understand you are happy with Cato and I hope you continue to make others aware to not support the breeder unless she changes vets. I honestly don't see how a breeder cannot see that method of choice for posting by stringing the ears up like that is acceptable...ignorant or not. Also, if anyone else wants to look it is not very hard to find the breeder based on the info supplied and I did find recent pics, awful pics at that, of said breeder's most recent litter of puppies with their ears strung up. I really hope she gets the msg and switches vets for the puppies sake. I can't imagine the damage that would happen if a littermate's paw got slipped in there and pulled that strand of suture out by accident.
Like Crow said, take this as a very eye opening lesson on why it's so important to choose a good breeder and spread your message to others that may be fooled.
Like Crow said, take this as a very eye opening lesson on why it's so important to choose a good breeder and spread your message to others that may be fooled.
DocReverto
Formerly CRD
Wow just wow. I am speechless.
Her ads on Facebook "Pets with Potential" now says her animals are non-Z Factored. I can not prove that she told me some were Z Factored, so I can't accuse her of breeding the Z Factor dog. There is a reason she advertises non-Z Factor and I have to speculate as to why.
DocReverto
Formerly CRD
According to her Facebook a z factored litter was set for June 14th.
Yes, I just saw z factored red and I believe there is also a z blue.
kaloric
Well-Known Member
It sounds like this wasn't a one-time regrettable decision on the breeder's part to try something new at an inexperienced vet's suggestion, and that makes it a potential problem.
I wouldn't see a civil lawsuit as accomplishing anything meaningful (unless the procedure was actually botched, and not something related to aftercare), but getting a possible criminal animal welfare complaint in the works might help if stringing is considered to be on the same list of bad practices as not using anesthesia and other "bad medicine". If it's not a blatantly botched procedure or bad medicine, then a civil suit probably isn't going to go anywhere.
I had a great diatribe on how shielding people guilty of animal cruelty for the sake of not drawing bad press to the practice of c/d just makes it look like supporters of c/d simply aren't concerned with animal welfare at all, but then I just caught myself having to ask myself, "What are a couple piercings when parts of the ear lobe have already been sliced-off?"
The stringing looks painful (especially with a drop of fresh blood on the thread!) and is prone to more complications since it creates four little wounds, but things often look worse than they are. Sometimes things are every bit as bad as they look. I suppose it boils down to whether stringing doesn't cause much additional discomfort due to the piercings or risk of infection, or whether it does add unnecessary additional discomfort.
As always, I'm going to say while I didn't choose to crop, I support folks' ability to choose to do it or to refuse it, just as with other elective surgeries like spay/neuter. However, I only support the choice to crop and/or dock only so long as it doesn't inflict unnecessary and prolonged suffering on the animal, which is how I'd define cruelty. They all have risks of complication and cause some discomfort, they're usually done for reasons other than the animal's welfare despite rationalizations. They're no big deal if the pain passes within a few minutes to an hour or so (while being treated with a dose of analgesics), and the lingering discomfort from the aching, healing injury lasts a few days, but if it's drawn-out for weeks, no way-- that's cruelty and needs to be stopped.
Dobs4ever
Hot Topics Subscriber
While I personally have not encountered a vet who strings ears like this it is within the scope of cropping. Most vets have much improved their methods and now use the styrofoam cups instead as it is much kinder. So again the vet is performing within his methods and is not actually doing anything out of line. Just not popular with the majority today.
Frivilous law suits cost us all and I honestly just don't see a pray of you even getting to first base. Courts do not and should not be ruling on different methods of cropping or aftercare.
Not true - Frivilous law suits are a waste of time. You have to be able to prove some kind of loss to make it worth while. The court is not set up to handle cases just because someone is not happy with how something they did not supervise or have control over was done. You bought the puppy. You supported a less than reputable breeder and OMG I won't even touch ont the low lives that breed Z factored. GAG GAG GAG
Yes Gel I am woman hear me roar!!!
Frivilous law suits cost us all and I honestly just don't see a pray of you even getting to first base. Courts do not and should not be ruling on different methods of cropping or aftercare.
Not true - Frivilous law suits are a waste of time. You have to be able to prove some kind of loss to make it worth while. The court is not set up to handle cases just because someone is not happy with how something they did not supervise or have control over was done. You bought the puppy. You supported a less than reputable breeder and OMG I won't even touch ont the low lives that breed Z factored. GAG GAG GAG
Yes Gel I am woman hear me roar!!!
LOL! This Forum is great. Best thing since home brew
. You are right in your judgement of frivolous law suits. We all lose in one way or another. Finding this forum was a blessing. I have a couple of gal friends who are clients of this breeder. While I do not feel responsible for these two, I do like them both and would hope to talk some sense into their heads.
Dobs4ever
Hot Topics Subscriber
Sosthenes we are glad you are hear too. We all learn by these discussions - whether good or bad people opinions and knowledge do matter and we hopefully can help each other in some small way understand better.
I hav often said since I did not even know about z factored when I got my first Doberman but by the grace of God there go I. I dodged the bullet but some are not so lucky. These Z factored breeders start breeding a a lie and it just goes downhill from there.
I hav often said since I did not even know about z factored when I got my first Doberman but by the grace of God there go I. I dodged the bullet but some are not so lucky. These Z factored breeders start breeding a a lie and it just goes downhill from there.
Yes. we hit a home run with Cato and feel that it was the Lord's blessings on us. Thank You, Lord. I am torn between two posts and feel a little like William Wallace. I am very happy with Cato being the sweetheart he is because of the neighbors. At the same time I worry that because he is so friendly that he could be easily stolen, so in the last regard, I wish we could train him in Sh. He seems to be the perfect fit for a protection dog. He is an athlete and has a great temperament. By his play he seems to be a good jumper. Sometimes he looks like he is on springs.
While we will always wonder if this guy could do the work, we are happy with him and he seems contented. He is a lover of his masters.
Dobs4Ever
You are?I guess I missed that all together.I do agree with your statement though.
Ah,I missed this.I am aware,and I have heard(read) you roar.I like it when you roar
Folks please excuse my ignorants,what is this Z factor?I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering,and for those who are new here or will become new here in the future and stumble across this thread.....what is it?
<-----------doesn't know much about genetics,but wants to learn.That's why I'm here.
<-----------doesn't know much about genetics,but wants to learn.That's why I'm here.
Dobs4Ever
You are?I guess I missed that all together.I do agree with your statement though.
Even though the government killed me in 68, I have not rolled over yet. The VA takes care of my health care, but might soon make huge cuts to Veterans benefits. Obama wants our bennies. To tell you the truth, I'd sooner live in Belize than have to put up with Mr. Obama.
Dobs4ever
Hot Topics Subscriber
Z factors means the dog is a descent of Sheba who produced the first albino litter. DPCA fought hard to get their reg # with a Z so that the pure gene pool could be protected. They are not suppose to be bread and are banned from showing in conformation events. You can go to DPCA>org and read theri white out program. They are banned by their own breed club as they are a defective mutated gene.
Since some of the dog that could carry the gene are blacks, reds, blues and fawns you can't see the Z so their reg is is WZ####
Since some of the dog that could carry the gene are blacks, reds, blues and fawns you can't see the Z so their reg is is WZ####
Thanks.
Rits
Hot Topics Subscriber
Why does the DPCA reject the Albino?
We know that these dogs are photophobic, (sensitive to sun light). They have vision problems resulting from abnormal development of the retina.
They are prone to skin cancer and skin lesions. Due to the lack of pigment, they are extremely susceptible to skin damage from the sun.
Poor temperament is a significant concern. Due to the intense inbreeding to obtain the mutation, the temperaments on a great many are totally unstable. These problems range from fear biting to outright vicious attacks. Shyness is prevalent. Most are not suitable for homes with small children. Yes, there are exceptions, but hardly enough to make them acceptable to most families.
In addition to the above problems concerning health and temperament, these dogs have a total lack of breed type.
There is dialog currently between the DPCA and the American Kennel Club to impose a breeding restriction on the Albinos. They would still be registered, but would have the same restrictions as an ILP registered dog. Owners would not be allowed to register any progeny of the Albinos.
While negotiations continue, the DPCA is utilizing a tracking system, call The "Z" List. This tracking system identifies any dogs that may carry this mutant gene. It enables ethical breeders to avoid breeding to animals with the defect.
While we can understand the attachment one can have for animals of all colors, sizes, shapes and pedigreed or not, we must realize that the Doberman Pinscher was a breed created for a purpose.
A standard of excellence was drawn up describing what the ideal Doberman should look like, how it should act, and what colors it should be. Albino cannot be classified as a color. It is just the opposite. It is the lack of color.
No recognized standard would call for a dog that is Albinoid. It is a genetic defect in all creatures.
Read more here: DPCA | The Doberman | Albino | What is albino
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