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Dcm - Should We Worry More About The Disease Of The Gene Pool

Dobs4ever

Hot Topics Subscriber
27/02/2014 AT 03:15 PM – FREDRIK MÖLLER

Dilated Cardiomyopathy (DCM) is a severe hereditary disorder present in Doberman Pinschers and other breeds that ultimately leads to heart failure and sudden death.

In 2012, a group of scientists including lead author Dr. Kathryn Meurs published an article reporting a mutation associated with increased risk for DCM in a cohort of Doberman Pinchers in America. This mutation is located in the PDK4 gene (Meurs et al., 2012), which encodes a protein of the mitochondrion, the cells power source - a vital part of the cell in which malfunctions are often disastrous. However, a year after the American discovery, a European group led by Dr. Tosso Leeb screened a large amount of Dobermans and dogs of other breeds from Germany and Great Britain and was unable to replicate the previous results. In this new study, the mutation was not associated with DCM, after a statistical analysis in which the question was whether the mutation was found more frequently in affected Dobermans than in healthy ones or not (Owczarek-Lipska et al., 2013). Additionally the mutation was shown to be common in the other breeds, which makes it less likely that it is a direct cause for the disease. These results also correspond well with our own experiences from comprehensive MyDogDNA panel screening: We similarly observe the DCM mutation present in several breeds at a high frequency.

Against this background, it is clear that the proposed mutation for DCM described by Meurs and colleagues is not the direct cause for the onset of the disease in any breed, and it is likely to be completely harmless in several breeds. Having said that, testing for the mutation still has a high value at least in the limited Doberman population it was found in, that is Dobermans of American origin. In general, there are often exceptions to the basic rules of genetics like the one described here. In this case, the geneticist would call it incomplete penetrance: Genetically affected, or carrier dogs that have this DCM mutation in their genome might never develop the condition. This means that there are likely several other genetic factors, and possibly environmental factors that jointly influence DCM onset in a complex manner. To evaluate the role of the PDK4 gene in DCM it would be important to assess the molecular machinery it acts in.

In DNA-testing, how do we then interpret a test result for a mutation like this?
To put it simply, an “affected” test result for a dog of a breed other than Doberman Pinscher is in our opinion not a cause to worry. No one has yet proven that the tested mutation has an effect in any other breed. For this reason, we do not recommend omitting any dogs from breeding based on this finding.

If a Doberman Pinscher is tested “affected”, additional information about the dog’s origin is needed to interpret the result. Remember that a statistical correlation between DCM and the tested mutation has only been proven in Dobermans of American origin. In American Dobermans, an “affected” result indicates that the dog has an approximately 7-fold increased risk for DCM, compared to dogs tested “clear” (Meurs et al., 2012). In European Dobermans, a genetically “affected” result has not been shown to have any effect on DCM risk (Owczarek-Lipska et al., 2013). Therefore, in our opinion, an “affected” result in a Doberman of European origin is not a cause for worry based on current knowledge, and we do not recommend omitting dogs from breeding based on this finding.

In conclusion, DCM is likely a disorder with a complex genetic origin. Further research is needed to understand the role of genetic variation in the PDK4 gene in influencing DCM onset. The MyDogDNAdatabase offers an easy means of identifying dogs carrying the putative mutation and thereby conducting a follow up study addressing whether the mutation increases the risk for DCM in other populations and breeds besides American Dobermans.

Currently, the DCM test offered by others and us only assesses one potential risk factor for DCM, and it is important to understand its limitations in predicting disease onset (i.e., it has a demonstrated effect only in one sub-population of one breed and incomplete penetrance even in that population). Genetic information of this nature should be critically interpreted and applied with caution to breeding programs in order to avoid breeding schemes that unnecessarily decrease genetic diversity.



REFERENCES

Meurs KM, Lahmers S, Keene BW, White SN, Oyama MA, Mauceli E, Lindblad-Toh K. A splice site mutation in a gene encoding for PDK4, a mitochondrial protein, is associated with the development of dilated cardiomyopathy in the Doberman pinscher. Hum Genet 2012; 131(8):1319-1325.

Mausberg TB, Wess G, Simak J, Keller L, Drögemüller M, Drögemüller C, Webster MT, Stephenson H, Dukes-McEwan J, Leeb T. A locus on chromosome 5 is associated with dilated cardiomyopathy in Doberman Pinschers. PLoS One 2011;6(5):e20042.


http://www.mydogdna.com/blog/dilated-cardiomyopathy-what-test-telling-and-should-i-be-worried
 
Now you know why smart breeders with any intelligence do not just jump on all these test and radically remove quality animals from any gene pool. Science and mother nature have a different set of rules and guidelines - Mother nature has a huge arsenal to pull from - science is limited and too restrictive. Four years down the road and still major break through that this gene has made a drastic change in the # of DCM cases seen. We have dog homo living to 11 or 12 and we have younger dogs that test negative drop dead. Testing only gives a fleeting glance as to the real health of any dog.
 
Remember that a statistical correlation between DCM and the tested mutation has only been proven in Dobermans of American origin. In American Dobermans, an “affected” result indicates that the dog has an approximately 7-fold increased risk for DCM, compared to dogs tested “clear” (Meurs et al., 2012). In European Dobermans, a genetically “affected” result has not been shown to have any effect on DCM risk (Owczarek-Lipska et al., 2013). Therefore, in our opinion, an “affected” result in a Doberman of European origin is not a cause for worry based on current knowledge, and we do not recommend omitting dogs from breeding based on this finding.

Wow-- Interesting to read. I honestly don't know much about DCM... If Im reading this correctly, is there a reason why American Dobes are more affected by DCM than the Europeans?
 
Good read but like most things I think it leaves more questions then it answer now. Does the PK4 gene have anything to do with DCM? If not is it something that breeders should still try to breed out or does it have no harm?

I have been talking about this test with my breeder a lot over the last month and I always told him I feel the same as you Dobs4ever. If the dog brings something to the table in a breeding but he is a carrier of the PK4 no reason not to use him. It is one small part of the problem. Now I seem to of forgotten a lot of what I thought I knew about this gene.
 
Wow-- Interesting to read. I honestly don't know much about DCM... If Im reading this correctly, is there a reason why American Dobes are more affected by DCM than the Europeans?
They are all affected the same. With the original sires, came DCM. It is equally as prevalent over there as it is here.
 
I disliked this test from the get. Dogs getting false positives. Dogs t
aking the test, given the go and then developing DCM and CHF a few months later. This test was force fed due to the need for something practical soon.

IMHO there is not a single line that does not have traces of DCM left in our breed. While that may not mean it is guaranteed to pass down, it does mean well over half of our "breeder" dogs most likely have the ability to throw this down to puppies. Even with a cure all test I seriously wonder how bottlenecked our breed would become if we were to eliminate those dogs from our breeding programs.
 
They are all affected the same. With the original sires, came DCM. It is equally as prevalent over there as it is here.


I don't believe your statement (highlighted in bold) to be correct..Taking into account the population of the dogs on both continents,the rate of DCM is much higher in the states than it is in Europe.

This is most probably due to the fact that, gene pool is much smaller on your side..
 
Just my :2cents... We thought we took a small step towards finding some answers to this devastating disease. Some may consider this a step backwards. I consider it at least a small step in the right direction. At least we know more than we did. I, myself lost an amazing boy to DCM in the prime of his life. For me, forwards, side step or even backwards means we know more and hopefully it will lead to a day when we won't even have a second thought about the disease because we have found the cure or have abolished it completely.
 
I don't believe your statement (highlighted in bold) to be correct..Taking into account the population of the dogs on both continents,the rate of DCM is much higher in the states than it is in Europe.

This is most probably due to the fact that, gene pool is much smaller on your side..

Unfortunately that's the problem here and there. No one really know the extent of it. Like I said before I would be surprised to find many lines (if any at all) that don't carry dcm anywhere in the pedigree.
 
This is one of the great myths that has been promoted by BYB of Euro's that they were healthier, but there are several publications now that claim it is rampant over there - if you remember the video posted on where they did a study and claimed that first- breeders over did nothing and did not care and that 60% had it. I felt that video was very one sided . But ALL dobermans originally came from over there. It is in the gene pool.

Ice I have often wondered because of these two things - In the past both here and there we were not focused on the negative side of breeding so did not keep meticulous records of why dogs died and as I have seen myself just because a dog drops dead does not mean automatically cardio. Then you have the questions when it is reported that the dog died of an accident and people automatically assume it is a lie and that it was cardio. So I am still not convinced it is as prevalent as they claim. But Doctors get money from grants so they tend to exaggerate problems to justify the need. JMHO

Regardless it is why I am strongly against any government trying to impose "Health" rules on any breed or breeders. Genetics does not play by the same set of rules. Why after the PDK4 test came out have we heard nothing??? And when it first came out the vast majority of the dogs tested were something like 75 to 80% tested negative. I have believed from the beginning it was at best only a small almost insignificant part of the problem. WHY because I personally know dogs that were 11 to 12 years old at the time still active yet tested PDK4 homo and doing well.

Believe it or not breeders do their best to breed good healthy dogs. So to say that we only breed for the win is like a kindergarten child who screams that you are ugly or that your mother is dumb. When they don't have a strong solid argument that they can defend they go on the attack. So they hurl out hurtful words that breeders only care about winning or the ears etc.

Yet so many who had never bred a litter, but who may have had a dog with DCM were throwing out all kinds of accusations at breeders about something that until that test raised it's head we had no way to control. Now we have the test and the actual results are being questioned and with good cause. When you have dogs who live beyond 10 produce dogs that die at 6 or 7 what does that say??? When you have dogs that die younger but produce litters that live beyond 10 what does that say??? Breeding is not a sideline sport. Unless you have experienced the challenges, studied the breed, studied the pedigrees, looked for longevity in the pedigree and doubled up on a known negative then how do you know. And even then you don't know but through a number of years looking back what you accomplished and where you are is what best guides you along with the mentors of other great breeders who know so much from their experience. There is not way to guarantee health and there is no way to guarantee a dog will live til any age. There are too many outside factors that also play a role even beyond genetics - environment, bacterial and viral.

The gene pool could not withstand the radical erradication with Vwd and it can't withstand radical erradication due to PDK4 - it sets the path of self destruction. Breeders must be free to create their vision - it is an art form it is not a mathematical equation with absolute results and answers. Our gene pool right now needs to increase not decrease. If it continues to decrease as the trend has been for the past 40 years then we are already on that path to extinction. We need good breeders to breed. If there are no dogs to breed then you did not solve the cardio problem you eliminated the dogs.

People must understand this - breeders do we live it daily.
 
Like I said before I would be surprised to find many lines (if any at all) that don't carry dcm anywhere in the pedigree.

You cannot find any lines that don't have dogs that carry DCM in their pedigree.Each and every dog alive today has an affected dog or dogs in their pedigree.
But just because there is a dog with DCM somewhere down the line in their pedigree we cannot remove dogs from the gene pool.

Let me give you an example..
I was recently searching for a stud dog and tried to interpret the meaning of the certificates of the dogs i came across..
One report issued by a genetics lab in USA (http://www.ncstatevets.org/genetics/) for a dog i was searching, read just like this..(bold highlighting at the end done by myself)

GENETIC INFO
DILATED CARDIOMYOPATHY MUTATION (DCM) IS A FORM OF HEART DISEASE IN THE DOBERMAN PINSCHER DOG. IT IS INHERITED AND OUR LABORATORY HAS IDENTIFIED A MUTATION RESPONSIBLE FOR THE GENE IN SOME DOBERMAN PINSCHER. HOWEVER, IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT IN HUMAN BEINGS WITH THE SAME DISEASE, THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT GENETIC MUTATIONS WHICH CAN CAUSE THIS DISEASE. WE DO NOT YET KNOW IF THIS IS THE ONLY MUTATION IN THE DOBERMAN PINSCHER OR IF THERE WILL BE MANY DIFFERENT MUTATIONS. PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT WE ARE CONTINUALLY LEARNING ABOUT THIS DISEASE AND RECOMMENDATIONS WILL BE ALTERED AS WE OBTAIN MORE INFORMATION.

CURRENTLY OUR INTERPRETATION OF THE TEST IS:

NEGATIVE RESULTS:
THE ABSENCE OF THE MUTATION IN THIS DOG, DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT WILL NEVER DEVELOP THE DISEASE. IT MEANS THAT IT DOES NOT HAVE THE ONLY KNOWN MUTATION THAT CAN CAUSE THE DISEASE IN THE DOG AT THIS TIME.

POSITIVE RESULTS:
DOGS THAT ARE POSITIVE FOR THE TEST WILL NOT NECESSARILY DEVELOP SIGNIFICANT HEART DISEASE AND DIE FROM THE DISEASE. SOME DOGS WILL DEVELOP A VERY MILD FORM OF THE DISEASE AND WILL LIVE QUITE COMFORTABLY, SOME MAY NEED TREATMENT.

IMPORTANTLY, BREEDING DECISIONS SHOULD BE MADE CAREFULLY. AT THIS TIME WE HAVE DO NOT YET KNOW WHAT PERCENTAGE OF DOBERMAN PINSCHER WILL BE POSITIVE FOR THE MUTATION. HOWEVER, REMOVAL OF A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF DOGS FROM THE BREEDING POPULATION COULD BE VERY BAD FOR THE DOBERMAN PINSCHER BREED. REMEMBER THAT DOGS THAT CARRY THIS MUTATION ALSO CARRY OTHER IMPORTANT GOOD GENES THAT WE DO NOT WANT TO LOSE FROM THE BREED.


so...as Dobs4ever have already stated, breeding is not a mathematical equation with absolute results and answers...that's why it should be left to those with the experience & knowledge..

This is one of the great myths that has been promoted by BYB of Euro's that they were healthier, but there are several publications now that claim it is rampant over there - if you remember the video posted on where they did a study and claimed that first- breeders over did nothing and did not care and that 60% had it. I felt that video was very one sided . But ALL dobermans originally came from over there. It is in the gene pool.
.

All i would say to this is...Don't believe everything you read on the net...I am not denying the existence of DCM but the figures in those publications are overly exaggerated.

Just like they are exaggerated in the link below link below..if you believe those you believe this as well..

http://www.doberman.gr/arthra/DCM_Testing.html
 
You cannot find any lines that don't have dogs that carry DCM in their pedigree.Each and every dog alive today has an affected dog or dogs in their pedigree.
But just because there is a dog with DCM somewhere down the line in their pedigree we cannot remove dogs from the gene pool.

Let me give you an example..
I was recently searching for a stud dog and tried to interpret the meaning of the certificates of the dogs i came across..
One report issued by a genetics lab in USA (http://www.ncstatevets.org/genetics/) for a dog i was searching, read just like this..(bold highlighting at the end done by myself)

GENETIC INFO
DILATED CARDIOMYOPATHY MUTATION (DCM) IS A FORM OF HEART DISEASE IN THE DOBERMAN PINSCHER DOG. IT IS INHERITED AND OUR LABORATORY HAS IDENTIFIED A MUTATION RESPONSIBLE FOR THE GENE IN SOME DOBERMAN PINSCHER. HOWEVER, IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT IN HUMAN BEINGS WITH THE SAME DISEASE, THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT GENETIC MUTATIONS WHICH CAN CAUSE THIS DISEASE. WE DO NOT YET KNOW IF THIS IS THE ONLY MUTATION IN THE DOBERMAN PINSCHER OR IF THERE WILL BE MANY DIFFERENT MUTATIONS. PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT WE ARE CONTINUALLY LEARNING ABOUT THIS DISEASE AND RECOMMENDATIONS WILL BE ALTERED AS WE OBTAIN MORE INFORMATION.

CURRENTLY OUR INTERPRETATION OF THE TEST IS:

NEGATIVE RESULTS:
THE ABSENCE OF THE MUTATION IN THIS DOG, DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT WILL NEVER DEVELOP THE DISEASE. IT MEANS THAT IT DOES NOT HAVE THE ONLY KNOWN MUTATION THAT CAN CAUSE THE DISEASE IN THE DOG AT THIS TIME.

POSITIVE RESULTS:
DOGS THAT ARE POSITIVE FOR THE TEST WILL NOT NECESSARILY DEVELOP SIGNIFICANT HEART DISEASE AND DIE FROM THE DISEASE. SOME DOGS WILL DEVELOP A VERY MILD FORM OF THE DISEASE AND WILL LIVE QUITE COMFORTABLY, SOME MAY NEED TREATMENT.

IMPORTANTLY, BREEDING DECISIONS SHOULD BE MADE CAREFULLY. AT THIS TIME WE HAVE DO NOT YET KNOW WHAT PERCENTAGE OF DOBERMAN PINSCHER WILL BE POSITIVE FOR THE MUTATION. HOWEVER, REMOVAL OF A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF DOGS FROM THE BREEDING POPULATION COULD BE VERY BAD FOR THE DOBERMAN PINSCHER BREED. REMEMBER THAT DOGS THAT CARRY THIS MUTATION ALSO CARRY OTHER IMPORTANT GOOD GENES THAT WE DO NOT WANT TO LOSE FROM THE BREED.


so...as Dobs4ever have already stated, breeding is not a mathematical equation with absolute results and answers...that's why it should be left to those with the experience & knowledge..



All i would say to this is...Don't believe everything you read on the net...I am not denying the existence of DCM but the figures in those publications are overly exaggerated.

Just like they are exaggerated in the link below link below..if you believe those you believe this as well..

http://www.doberman.gr/arthra/DCM_Testing.html


The lack of concrete evidence on the cause, or results of DCM leads us all to speculation. IMHO if you could definitively diagnose each breeding dog that has the ability to pass down the trait, you would bottleneck the breed to extinction. Looking at health testing in Europe (perhaps im looking in the wrong places) I see minimal amounts of focus on heart testing. Not that I blame anyone. Whats the point in spending excessive amounts of money on something that notoriously gives false results, or that can be changed in a months time.
 
Whats the point in spending excessive amounts of money on something that notoriously gives false results, or that can be changed in a months time.

Exactly...all the test reports,be it DNA or holter they ONLY give you the health state of the dog at the time of the test..
There is no guarantee they will not develop the mutation in a week,month or a years time!!

So..for the time being majority of the people testing are the stud owners and that is only to satisfy the dam owners interested in using these studs and people interested in pups from these litters!!
 
Exactly...all the test reports,be it DNA or holter they ONLY give you the health state of the dog at the time of the test..
There is no guarantee they will not develop the mutation in a week,month or a years time!!

So..for the time being majority of the people testing are the stud owners and that is only to satisfy the dam owners interested in using these studs and people interested in pups from these litters!!

It sucks but it's true. I hear the argument about doing an echo before a breeding to "clear" the bitch or stud of dcm when in reality that is no indication anything is correct. A dog or bitch could show signs literally the day after the exam and you would never own it. IMHO echoes and holters when used before a breeding are used to falsely promote a "healthy" breeding, when in reality these tests shouldn't be a breeding requirement rather a diagnostic tool for maintenance of the dogs health as they age.
 
All i would say to this is...Don't believe everything you read on the net...I am not denying the existence of DCM but the figures in those publications are overly exaggerated.

Ice sorry if I did not make it clear - what I tried to say is I felt that video was very lopsided and therefore not valid in its claim about how bad DCM was over there. My gosh we we believe the press then our dogs are doomed and I do not for one second believe that regardless of which side of the pond the are bred in.

IF PDK4 was a significant cause of DCM then NO dogs homo for the mutation should live long healthy lives. NONE butif they do does it say the really ugly deadly cardio genes were exceptionally great of that the bad ones were certainly missing. Then shouldn't we look to these dogs to breed to pick up and expand on the good genes??? That makes sense to me.

IMHO echoes and holters when used before a breeding are used to falsely promote a "healthy" breeding, when in reality these tests shouldn't be a breeding requirement rather a diagnostic tool for maintenance of the dogs health as they age.

And this fact is one of the biggest reasons supporting the AR agenda to control and stop all breeding without positive health test results. That is a one way street to destruction of the gene pool. People thing you can mandate health - YOU CAN"T.

Look at the breeders who advertise DCM clear or neg - that is so false - but we have used it as a great selling tool to mislead the sadly uninformed JQP who has bought hook line and sinker all the health testing mumbo jumbo and believe it will save any breed. And it has been used as a battering ram to destroy breeders.
 

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