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Calling All Dilute Owners...

Discussion in 'Doberman Health Issues and Questions' started by GennyB, Apr 13, 2014.

  1. GennyB

    GennyB Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    I saw this in the UDC Focus magazine and got the authors permission to cross post. While, I do not agree with everything she says, I do think it is worth sharing...



    So you want a Fawn or Blue Doberman...
    Written by Michelle Shelby Frye
    And the “breeder” is telling you that they are rare, so
    you better act fast…
    Wrong.
    The “breeder” trying to sell you this cute, beautiful, soft
    coated bundle of joy is wrong. And you should run. Not
    necessarily from the fawn or blue Doberman, but from the
    “breeder.” Fawn and Blue Dobermans are not rare. They
    are an acceptable color in the United States and can be
    shown in all events. But if that is the case, why do you not
    see as many Fawns and Blues as you do Blacks and Reds?
    Because in order to get a Fawn or Blue Doberman both
    parents must carry the Dilute Gene.
    Let’s back up a step and explain what a fawn and a blue
    Doberman are. They are a “dilute” or color dilution in
    the hair shaft of the black or red dominate colors of
    Dobermans.
    Blue Dobermans are a dilute form of the color black, blue
    Dobermans colors can range from light grayish blue to
    almost black.
    Fawns or Isabella as they are sometimes called, are the
    dilute form of Red Dobermans. They are, as the name suggest,
    fawn in color.
    Fawns and blues keep their Rust markings like on their
    black and red counterparts.
    Now that you know the difference between the two, how
    do you tell them apart? Well Blues being a dilute of black
    will have a blackish/blue nose and Fawns, being from Reds
    will have a pinkish/brown nose. So if you encounter one
    and are not certain, look at the noses, and you should be
    able to tell.
    As asked earlier, why do you not see as many fawns and
    blues? Well its genetics. In order for a Doberman dam to
    produce “dilutes” she must carry the Dilute Gene AND the
    sire she is bred to must also carry the Dilute Gene. And as
    with most genetics it doesn’t always happen every time.
    Now reputable breeders will know their Dam and Sires
    genetic history, normally to include which color genes they
    carry, and they may or may not avoid breeding two dilute
    gene carrying Dobermans together. For reputable breeders
    other factors like conformation, temperament and health of
    the parents weigh into the decision and they will choose to
    breed two dilute carrying dogs together and they may end
    up with a dilute in the litter. Since the dogs they have breed
    together are excellent examples of Dobermans, you have
    no harm no foul, as in the United States they deem them
    acceptable colors. Reputable breeders rarely breed Fawn or
    Blue Dobermans but again it falls back on the conformation,
    temperament and health of the dogs being bred. IF
    the dam or sire is fawn or blue make sure you check for all
    health testing and titling of the dogs to make sure you are
    purchasing from a reputable breeder.
    On the other end of the scale, you have the BYB’s and
    “greeders” who do no genetic workup on the dogs they
    breed, no health testing and certainly don’t care what the
    dogs produce so long as they can sell the puppies. If a
    dilute or two comes along from the litter even better, they
    can sell it for more, claiming it is rare, when in fact; it’s just
    a matter of parent’s genetics.
    So why are reputable breeders not breeding for dilutes?
    Well, they tend to have lots of hair and skin issues. 93%
    of Blue Dobermans and 75% of Fawn Dobermans develop
    CDA or Color Dilution Alopecia (source Wikipedia).
    Like the name implies, they start losing their hair and get
    bald(ing) patches of their blue or fawn hair. And there is
    not a lot you can do about it, after all it is genetic. So all
    those people who paid lots of money for their beautiful,
    soft fawn or blue Doberman puppy, will end up with a
    rough coated and probably patchy (or bald) adult Doberman.
    Dilutes have less hair on their bodies per square
    inch than a Black or Red, so even the “best” dilute coat
    as an adult is lacking the luster of their counterparts. CDA
    does not happen overnight. Its normal onset is between
    6 months of age and when the dog reaches maturity at
    around 2 years old.
    So is owning a dilute Doberman really a problem?
    chance of balding. If you’re ok with that, than think of the
    health issues that come along with CDA
    Because of the clumping of the pigment in the hair shaft it
    makes the hair shaft is softer, or rather not as strong as the
    Black or Red, it tends to break easily or is unable to push
    through the follicle and cause the dog to have ingrown hairs
    or staph infections. These issues will result in more vet visits
    and antibiotics or other remedies you and your vet discuss.
    If you live in colder climates you will probably have to
    purchase sweaters or jackets to help keep their thin furred
    bodies warm.
    In the warmer climates you will probably have to purchase
    dog safe sun block or cooling coats to protect their sensitive
    skin from the harmful rays of the sun.
    Let’s talk treatment.
    There is no effect treatment for this disorder. It’s progressive
    and incurable. But there are some things you can do to help
    prevent infections and promote the health of the hair left.
    Do not over or excessively brush or bathe. Since the hair
    shaft is not as strong as black or red, it breaks easily during
    excessive brushing or even shampooing. Some suggestions
    that have been made to me are shampoos with keratin in
    them, but I find its better not to bathe at all unless she’s
    gotten into something absolutely disgusting. Then I use an
    antimicrobial shampoo with very little scrubbing.
    Some people suggest moisturizers on the coat to make the
    hair less brittle, but I’m of the mind of less chemicals and
    more natural. Plus won’t they just end up licking it off? I
    prefer a scoop or two of coconut oil in her dinner.
    Speaking of dinner, the absolute best thing I have found
    for her is a high quality diet filled with fatty acids. She
    started on a kibble as a puppy and even though it was a
    “high quality” kibble she still was getting patchy and her
    hair was very course and broke easily. I switched her over
    to completely raw diet and cannot believe the difference it
    has made. Weekly she gets an array of raw meat; Sardines,
    ground pork, green tripe, turkey tails, duck necks, chicken
    livers, ground beef organ and bones. I know that CDA is
    curable, but given her the best possible food has made her
    the healthiest dog she can be, therefore helps her have the
    healthiest coat she can have. My number one “treatment”
    suggestion: feed raw. It’s worth it.
    What is the most important part of this lecture? If you are
    still interested in a dilute, make sure that you look to a
    reputable breeder, who will be there for the life of your Doberman
    to help you with any issues associated with Dilutes
    and Dobermans in general.
    Michelle (Shelby) Frye, owner of Shelby’s Crowning Gem
    BN RA CGC, is a member of VTDC – Vermont Total Doberman
    Club and the UDC. Information obtained in this
    article has been gathered through research and should
    cite the following list of resources: DCPA and Wikipedia,
    along with firsthand knowledge of owning a dilute and
    speaking with reputable breeders and owners from the
    UDC about their practices.
     
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  2. WYOgirl

    WYOgirl Hot Topics Subscriber

    We have a dilute blue. We rescued him without caring what color he is. (Though I do think he's absolutely gorgeous.. :) ) His coat is in rough shape but he was also underfed and flea infested. It will be interesting to see what happens after a couple months on good food and flea-free. I'm hoping it improves, but I doubt he's a well-bred Dobe.

    image.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. csmith4242

    csmith4242 Notable member

    We got our fawn boy from a rescue, I knew full well going in there could be coat issues and maybe more but he needed a home.He does have a thin coat and it is very dry. Health wise he seems fine other than some food allergy issues, no grain or chicken. We have had good luck with Blue LTD Salmon and potato, he gets fish oil twice a day. He also get a bath with douxo shampoo as needed, his coat has not gotten any worse but it has not gotten any better.
     
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  4. Gelcoater

    Gelcoater Expert ThreadCrapper $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber

    Sounds like you're on the right track with him.Maybe add some organic coconut oil to the mix.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  5. GennyB

    GennyB Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber



    Any improvement?





    Are you using the fish oil that comes in the gel caps? I switched my fawn girl to salmon oil and I'm getting much better results.

    http://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-All-N...TF8&qid=1404684743&sr=1-1&keywords=salmon+oil
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. WYOgirl

    WYOgirl Hot Topics Subscriber

    Yes! I will take a picture when I get a chance. His color is getting darker blue overall and the patches of thinning hair have filled in quite a bit.

    I've been looking at the pictures of conformation Dobes and then looking at our sweet Luther and he definitely doesn't have a straight back. He's slightly sway-backed and his rump/tail drops lower than the rest of his top line. It doesn't seem to affect him functionally and it doesn't matter to us since he's a pet "rescue" but it has been an interesting learning comparison for me. :)
     
  7. Archer

    Archer Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    That's a very good way to learn how to grade for conformation. A great method is to print out the diagrams from DPCA's standard off their website to use as your guideline. I take one with me to every dog show. That way I am grading to 100% of the standard. It's taught me a lot about what we are competing against out there in the ring, plus keys me in on Aria's faults as well :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. kenneth

    kenneth New Member

    i have a beautifull fawn great temperment beautifull coat and very handsome too look at her name is storm.she gets regular checkups and id perfectley healthy. the reason i wont show her is brcause other dobbie people wont like her some hate her but shes just ss.good as any of them .i looked into ukc shows. but i woulfnt insult her like that. you can see her here just look at storm 11 weeks .
     
  9. csmith4242

    csmith4242 Notable member

  10. kenneth

    kenneth New Member

    i get every thing .
     
  11. kenneth

    kenneth New Member

    and im a proud owner of a dilute
     
  12. Dobs4ever

    Dobs4ever Hot Topics Subscriber

    There are a lot of misplaced statements above - Some people are so snobby they don't like any dog but their own. So WHAT??? But why would anyone HATE her???? What the heck do you mean UKC would insult her??? A trained judge is a trained judge part and for the most part do a decent job of judging. But it would be correct to say in the end it is subjective and that is why many people will only show to judges that like their type of Dobe.

    I am sorry I just can't buy the above reasons for not showing. We all love our dogs - but and not all could succeed in the ring regardless of how much one might love them. I hope you actually visit a show if you have not and learn and meet the people. There are a lot of great dog folks out there that would be happy to help you.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 7, 2014
    • Like Like x 1
  13. kenneth

    kenneth New Member

    i am very familur with dog shows . my daughter has shown gor years.had worked for professional handlers. as my wife.have many dog show friends some also have owned and showed dobbies as well as my daughter.we also have our own breed and show them. know very well fawns and blues have a hard time finishing .even through there a accepted color. as far as ukc was not familer always have been akc.but when storm came knew what i was upaginst . looked at ukc show very subpar dogs and mixed dogs not purebreeds that only ukc accepts. judges put up worst of bad when
     
  14. kenneth

    kenneth New Member

    to finish it was like a big fun match of newspaper dogs.before you ask well why then you bought storm.i did not buy her she was given to me.showing is what my family does we have msny champion dogs ourselfs.want storm involved to but know how it is shed wont be accepted got remarks already at show we went to.but i do want somekind of title for her so thinking of lure coursing show might look at another ukc show.friend said i just picked bad one.
     
  15. Archer

    Archer Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    I show AKC and there was a lovely male fawn at the last show we attended. He went on to Winners and took the Major. I know some judges don't prefer the dilutes, but a good judge can't deny a nice dog, regardless of their preference to color. A nice dog is just that, a nice dog.

    Just keep your head up. If you want to compete, compete. Forget the opinion of others. It shouldn't matter in the long long anyway. Just means that you get to show them wrong :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Dobs4ever

    Dobs4ever Hot Topics Subscriber

    I have had both blues and fawns finish and Cambria, Goldgrove all top breeders show fawns and blues with great success. While some folks don't like fawns or blues a good one will finish just as any other color. What breed do you show? Thanks
     
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