Bullmastiffs

[Oh Little Oji]

Cool. Yeah, who knows about that particular dog's breeding or if he's even purebred.

I do think that a BRT with normal coat and proper conformation is a beautiful dog. I've always preferred a short-coated breed where I could easily see what's going on with the dog – any parasites, cuts or other problems. Even hiking with the dog or letting it run through the woods or brush could result in a lot more time and hassle getting burrs and stuff out of the coat. The Doberman is one of the "honest" breeds, you know – can hide nothing visually. The fairly high maintenance coat on the BRT is a downside. I am not at all convinced I could be happy living with it.

I know with some shaggy dogs or dogs with a lot of fur or hair, confo. breeders can shape and manipulate the coat to hide faults and mimic desirable traits. The BRT, though, is a working breed that is so young and thus close to its working roots; and it is supposed to be an athletic, capable dog so I expect what is under the coat of a well-bred BRT to be functional, sound and capable.

To answer your question: The Giant Schnauzer can be a very handsome dog, and it can have cropped ears! I don't know if I can handle a floppy eared dog! I just wish the GS was bigger! When I researched breeders, I saw a lot of smallish dogs that I just didn't think I could be happy with. I believe their height standard is just a bit shorter than the Doberman.

I know size shouldn't matter, yada yada; but the chief thing I need in a dog is deterrent factor, followed by capability to protect. I have gone with working Dobermans for my last two Dobes because they are more likely to have the actual goods in protection capability even though they run smaller and less impressive looking. I am burnt out on living with a working-line dog though. It's just not the right fit for my current life. So, if I go with a lower drive dog, and thus maybe accordingly a less able protector, then I need the dog to have size and intimidating appearance to make up for it. To this end, I have considered going with a big Euro Dobermann; but I know it would still have the whininess and other features that don't fit in with my Daddy lifestyle. No offense, Doberdevotees. I still admire a good Doberman a lot and don't forget that I used to say that I would have one the rest of my life.

So with the BRT, I have a dog whose height range is 27-30" and weight is almost sure to be 100 lb.+ – 120 or 130 probably. I have a lot less to worry about when it comes to trying to make sure I don't get stuck with a dog that's too small for my liking. The Cane Corso males might be 25" or 26". A GS male might be 26" or 26.5", maybe 27". I don't feel good about taking that chance. There are enough other factors to worry about when rolling the dice on buying a pup!

The BRT also, it seems to me, will have a better chance of having more of its intended guarding and confident nature intact. The GS has had many more years to be watered down by the US market. In fact, the key reason I had written the BRT off is I was worried it was a dangerous breed. This was in part fueled by the description I had read that it was developed (maybe not exact wording) by Russian scientists in a lab. That was probably a misleading description.

 

[Lizbeli]

Good answer! I think no matter how tall a Corso is, you will absolutely still have the deterrence factor on your side. Go with a good breeder and you will have a calm, confident, watchful dog. They seem to be easy going in the home but still more than able and willing to exercise when given the chance. And for their size, they are agile. Really does seem like a good fit.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Good answer! I think no matter how tall a Corso is, you will absolutely still have the deterrence factor on your side. Go with a good breeder and you will have a calm, confident, watchful dog. They seem to be easy going in the home but still more than able and willing to exercise when given the chance. And for their size, they are agile. Really does seem like a good fit.

Very good points regarding the Corso. I would just need to arrive at a good breeder. The one up by Dayton that I've been in text contact with and who seems pretty free and easy in selling pups, well, they produce generally large, "rustic" pretty powerful and thick Corsi. That's probably the safest bet for me in terms of deterrent look, and them not looking anything like a big Boxer. The thing with them is, I can't seem to get info. out of them regarding temperament and health. They also are starting to breed American Bullies, which look like an extreme niché dog.

You're right though: Deterrent is certainly there in Pit Bulls who are way too short for me, and it's certainly there in Presa Canarios, which run shorter than Corsi.

But one note regarding height: I've found that a 28" dog with short coat doesn't need wiping on the underside after a walk in wet weather unless it's raining significantly So, a 29 or 30" BRT with its longer coat might, might not need its underside wiped in that scenario, especially if I keep it cut. But then there's the paws

 

[Lizbeli]

Do you have pictures of their dogs? Or the name of the breeder if you don’t mind sharing- no pressure. Im always looking for breeders. Im trying to do it right this time and not rush things. Another dog for me could be another year or two down the road. I do like the larger corsos that still have a good conformation. No roach backs or high hips, which seems to be prevalent in mastiffs.

Good point about the taller dogs. Jasper is 27in. Honestly, he isn’t as tall as I would like. His dad was pretty big but I think he shows a lot of his moms type. I can tell you, I personally won’t have another long coated dog. I had a golden that was a pain to wash. But that coat is a bit different than BRTs.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Posts #262 and #209 show examples of a few of their more impressive looking males. The breeder is Americana Cane Corso in Ohio. Their website is fairly nice, but essentially dormant. They put out information on the Insta. Maybe fbook?

I sent an inquiry through their website but the next day actually texted him, since it said they were open to that. He got back to me shortly. It was funny: He asked what I was looking for. I gave a brief but detailed paragraph via text of the key qualities I need. He didn't address any of what I said. He just said "I've got a Blue male pup and a Black Brindle pup available."

 

[Oh Little Oji]

This video is funny. I'm posting it here because it's a Cane Corso and a Doberman pup "playing" together. How annoying is this Doberpup?! Typical though, I know.

 

[Rits]

Looks exactly like Ripley when she plays. Very relentless lol

 

[Ravenbird]

Yup, that was like Asha at that age, but Reckless wouldn't snap back at her. No way could I catch her up like they did in the video - too fast. It was this bullying on the older dog that bought her rights to wear an e-collar.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

I can laugh at myself for the past few days. It's not really like me, but I have been the three different places (in my mind) in as many days when it comes to breeds. I got reignited about the Black Russian Terrier (BRT), then the Bullmastiff, and now back to the Cane Corso.

I was put off the BRT after seeing a video of bathing and grooming it. I already was reticent about the parts that get longish hair, including, ugh, the paws (think coming in from a walk in wet weather, or letting him in from a yard with mud). I figured, though: I have already personally taken on grooming. I used to scissor-cut the hair from the inside of the ear leather, trim the hair back to the nail beds, trim the "stinger" from the tail, not to mention pretty frequent ear cleaning and daily teeth brushing. I would get a trusty electric trimmer, a good pair of scissors, the right brushes and heck, maybe even one of those little canister vacuums – ha. I'd do it my way, and devise a type of trim and look that I wanted (think distinctively different from what might be mistaken for a large black Doodle!)

I had already contacted two BRT breeders (they have "contact me" forms) with no reply. This was Guardian Bears in North Carolina, and another one that seems kind of dubious. This week, I contacted another – Zastava in the Chicago area. No responses.

I got re-interested in the Bullmastiff partly due to the fact that the Cane Corso seems so popular today and, frankly, often seems to be not so much a white person's breed. By the way, same with the Boerboel which enjoyed a brief revival in my mind – ha.

The Bullmastiff breeder in Arkansas called Lonely Creek seems quite like a quality breeder. Most, or all of their dogs are in shape and don't have that rolly, pudgy appearance. She says she likes to keep them hard. I had actually contacted Sonya Worley and asked about the neutering policy. She got back to me pretty promptly via email and did not expressly tell me that I could keep my Bullmastiff intact beyond the 1 year mark they they suggest (and mandate?) but she did acknowledge that it is best to wait. Promising!

I began to be concerned though not only about the breed not having the height that I want (kind of the same with the Corso) but that it did not have an intimidating enough appearance. I'm concerned that too many people on the street or who would see my Bullmastiff behind my fence would think: I know that type of dog. Just look at that mug! Awww. Not the response I want.

Yes, folks, I don't apologize for this: I do not want my dog to engender warm feelings on the street. I want my dog to engender uncertain, uneasy feelings. I don't at all mind my dog being feared. It's a guard freaking dog!!

On that note, and to that end, I want cropped ears! What's more, I like to thumb my nose at any and all who mildly to severely dislike or disagree with cropping. Oh, you don't like cropping? Guess what. I had my dog's ears almost all the way cut off. And, it's not just an ancient tradition, it serves very real purposes I believe.

So this brings me to today. I actually texted that breeder in the Dayton area, Americana, and asked if cropping was included in the purchase price. This, I have found, is very rare in the Corso breed today. They guy gets back to me via text in an hour or so (could this BE more different than typical, traditional communications with breeders?!?) (I don't know of any Doberman breeders that would be so communicative). Yes, maybe in a way this is just a bit of a red flag. Yes, I still have questions about this breeder in the areas of proof of the health and temperament of their Corsi, and the apparent ease with which they would sell pups. I will have to look with renewed scrutiny at health testing results; and I would like to take my family to visit their facility this coming summer.

I have my doubts that the Corsi produced by Americana are unduly aggressive overall. I just need to know they are stable. Remember, they produce "Rustic" Corsi. They are heavy boned and fairly large and impressive in appearance. I feel this will translate to energy levels that are on the lower end for the breed, and God willing, same for prey drive levels.

That's where I'm at! Phew!

 

[JanS]

I still have questions about this breeder in the areas of proof of the health and temperament of their Corsi, and the apparent ease with which they would sell pups. I will have to look with renewed scrutiny at health testing results; and I would like to take my family to visit their facility this coming summer.

I don't see anything about health testing or titles on their site so I'd definitely take a closer look.

 

[Rits]

I blame Tad for this mornings spam.

 

[Lizbeli]

^ thats just too funny!!

 

[Oh Little Oji]

I blame Tad for this mornings spam.

View attachment 116108

Yes, looks like it!

 

[Oh Little Oji]

I don't see anything about health testing or titles on their site so I'd definitely take a closer look.

Point taken. Thanks, Jan.

So I happened to look again at a breeder in CO that I had kind of put out of the running not only because of the geographical location, but I think it just seemed maybe not the type I was looking for, and I saw a lot of pics of AKC showings and figured it wasn't a breeder that would be for me. Usually a breeder that's big into AKC confo. will deal in a lot of show prospect vs. companion dog and a price difference and a strict spay/neuter clause and may be a pain in some other ways. So that's why they were sort of swept aside in my research. Oh, and this is the breeder that says they will not sell a pup based on color. I agree with the rationale, but I don't like that restriction. Know what though? I am willing to accept pretty much whichever color as long as I get a good looking, quality dog. Ultimately, I'd like a black one, followed by a dark brindle or that grey color.

Again, I looked them up the other evening when trying to find examples of the different types of Corsi to show my wife. Well, I was surprised at how much I was encouraged the more I re-read this breeder's website. The breeder is Castleguard.

Their dogs look pretty good. They are not as much the "rustic," really heavy boned dogs like those of a few breeders in the Dayton area that I am interested in (one who has communicated with me that he doesn't care if I don't neuter, and also that ear cropping is included in the purchase price ); but Castleguard's dogs look actually real good.

Get this: Their website is very forthcoming with information on health testing. There are actual pics of the health certificates (OFA, Pennhip, etc.) and hip and elbow scores are given for about every dog if I recall.

Their price: I would expect them to be higher, but it's $2800 (for limited reg.)

I see no mention of a requirement to spay/neuter.

They say the price includes ear cropping.

There are a lot of confo. champions in the lines, and the breeder does the showing herself.

A no-nonsense, no BS, no power trip feel is what I find there. They lay out clearly the price (what quality Doberman breeder do you know of who does this? ) They clearly lay out the process for applying for their wait list. (They say read over their ownership requirements, then give them a phone call which will screen you for eligibility). Then they send you the contract to review, fill out and return. Put down a deposit which you can choose to bump forward to another breeding as many as two times.

So I think you'd probably agree that this breeder is up to snuff in terms of health testing and titling.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Here's the surprise: When I mentioned this breeder to my wife tonight, and that the are in CO, she said "No, that's too far." Okay, I get that. I said "Well, for the right pup..." She's all "That sounds familiar."

But what really surprised me is that she said I should not knock those nearby breeders (up in Dayton area) out of contention. I had told her the CO one was very good on health testing and titling and she cited that my best Dobe yet was my first one who was from a hobby breeder, and he was just as healthy as my "good breeder" ones.

So yeah. That took me by surprise.

I did tell her that if my next dog were to die at 8 years old of a heart condition or something I'm not too not-okay with that. It's what I'm used to. However, what I do NOT want is a dog that is hobbled for much of its life by hip displaysia or bad elbows or knees or something else that leaves me with a big slug of a dog that can't get around well and can't do much of anything. That, I can't live with. So I take the joint health testing very seriously.

 

[Rits]

what quality Doberman breeder do you know of who does this?

Melrae Dobermans She has her price, her contract, and everything expected of you on her website for full viewing. But I know what you mean, you usually have to reach out and start a conversation to get the information. I guess some feel it weeds non-committed people out.

I agree with you to stress health testing with corsi, especially those hips. I would not settle for less. You must remind your wife that one example does not make the average. I like the look of the breeders dogs in CO. Their conformation looks really nice, they look thick but not too overdone and their heads are really nice.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Melrae Dobermans She has her price, her contract, and everything expected of you on her website for full viewing. But I know what you mean, you usually have to reach out and start a conversation to get the information. I guess some feel it weeds non-committed people out.

I agree with you to stress health testing with corsi, especially those hips. I would not settle for less. You must remind your wife that one example does not make the average. I like the look of the breeders dogs in CO. Their conformation looks really nice, they look thick but not too overdone and their heads are really nice.

Well, I will definitely check out the website of Melrae Dobermans then!

 

[JanS]

Their website is very forthcoming with information on health testing. There are actual pics of the health certificates (OFA, Pennhip, etc.) and hip and elbow scores are given for about every dog if I recall.

That's definitely very important and it's great that they health test, title and show all of them since they're living up to the breed standard with their lines.

When I mentioned this breeder to my wife tonight, and that the are in CO, she said "No, that's too far." Okay, I get that. I said "Well, for the right pup..."

Honestly, I've never swayed from distance being a thing; especially after we used the great transport guy Phoebe was delivered by. I know you prefer to meet the parents but we've bought most of our Doberman pups just from the photos, website info, etc. without going there.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

I continue to marvel at what we have here at DCF. I don't know if it's the core of older folks who are active here and don't have their attention divided between the various other social media platforms so prevalent today, or what. I'm sure going to miss it around here if I leave the world of Dobermans.

If someone came on here at DCF and asked a couple basic questions about our breed they would get a reply within hours or sooner, and a handful of our core group would cordially and gladly provide information and experiences.

This is not the case over at the mastiff forum. I don't know what the deal is, but the only mastiff forum that I have found is a very very slow and desolate place. I just don't get it. Like I said, the forum covers many breeds! DCF covers just one. Yet this forum is like 500% more active – and welcoming!! I wonder if it ever occurs that if the DCF core group starts to dwindle that it will become similar here. I know it takes money to run this place. I actually don't recall if they request donations over there, but I do know that any time you click on a thread you have a pop-up add to click away. I don't think funding, however, would directly affect participation among members.

Just interesting.

I wonder if forums mimic the breeds themselves. Mastiffs, they say, tend to amble. We know how upbeat and active Dobermans are. Over at the Mastiff forum, there are actually links to Pit Bull forums. There, I noticed things were of an aggressive, harsh nature.

 

[Lizbeli]

I'm sure going to miss it around here if I leave the world of Dobermans.

Don’t leave here just because you don’t have a doberman!

I totally get what you mean though. I have never stayed on a breed specific forum for this long. And was never actually posting anything like I am here. I was a lurker on some forums but they were never really updated with new members and posts like this one.

Maybe the work it takes to keep a happy doberman is so much more that people tend to look for advice and new ideas. Thus keeping forums like this more active? I mean, when I think bull mastiff I think of a lazy dog who really just needs basic training to be a good house animal (compared to our high energy dobermans). In that way maybe they are just easier to live with and don’t require as much? However, Corsos are more more serious to own, I would think there was an active forum for them. Especially because their popularity seems to have spiked over the last few years.