An in depth study of the Doberman Standard [AKC]
- Thread starter Dobs4ever
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Kitty's mom
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when & where?
Panama
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Marietta, GA Oct 25 & 26
Kitty's mom
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Dang, too far to drive in a day.
Dobs4ever
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Let's stop here and talk about balance - Balance in not only structure but balanced in drive. So let's start with the head - parallel planes equal to each other. The neck should be twice the length of the head - The back is twice the neck, the upper body from withers to chest is equal to the length of leg - this gives a square dog.
We were invited to attend a the judges seminar today and we really enjoyed learning how they train a judge on what to look for in our breed. I was so proud that they started off with IT IS A CROPPED DOCKED breed. Always has been and should always remain so. They explained how a judge was to penalize the uncropped - -1 pt for not cropped -1 point because they are not standing erect and -1 point because the look is to be impressive and intimidating. This breed was bred to be man's protector and to instill a certain caution. This is totally lost in the uncropped. For the most part I saw nice heads and beautiful necks.
An Ayla puppy full brother to Bella who also finished his CH
Reba this puppy goes a ways back for me don't know why the first picture did not show up
Shrock as a puppy
You are welcome to critique any of my dogs you wish and we can discuss them if you want.
We were invited to attend a the judges seminar today and we really enjoyed learning how they train a judge on what to look for in our breed. I was so proud that they started off with IT IS A CROPPED DOCKED breed. Always has been and should always remain so. They explained how a judge was to penalize the uncropped - -1 pt for not cropped -1 point because they are not standing erect and -1 point because the look is to be impressive and intimidating. This breed was bred to be man's protector and to instill a certain caution. This is totally lost in the uncropped. For the most part I saw nice heads and beautiful necks.
An Ayla puppy full brother to Bella who also finished his CH
Reba this puppy goes a ways back for me don't know why the first picture did not show up
Shrock as a puppy
You are welcome to critique any of my dogs you wish and we can discuss them if you want.
Sure post puppy picks and ask us to us to critique, lol. Puppies are hard for me. I know what a nice looking dobie is... but the slang is just not happening for me. Who came up with those terms? I hear breeders talking about a dog and they come up with some weird thing. I just wanna say you mean his tail is wrong?
Panama
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Head and neck should be equal in length.
It does seem like twice the length would be ridiculously long.
Dobs4ever
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Sorry Panama yes you are correct - Can I claim a senior moment. I was dead tired when I got home and trying to get this off before I crashed??
Interesting the reserve winners dog was from the kennel Sant Kreal - and Pride of Russia Sidor was the sire. He was a beautiful dog with fabulous bone - front end and neck tie in was not good however. but he was impressive to look at once you got past that. The uncropped dog that showed lacked merit all the way around
Interesting the reserve winners dog was from the kennel Sant Kreal - and Pride of Russia Sidor was the sire. He was a beautiful dog with fabulous bone - front end and neck tie in was not good however. but he was impressive to look at once you got past that. The uncropped dog that showed lacked merit all the way around
Kitty's mom
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http://m.dogbreedinfo.com/?url=http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/terms.htm#3052 this link may help define some of the terms used in the standard
Edited at the request of Kitty's Mom:
I've learned something today. Not all web sites and search engine results are created equally. The "M" link for mobile devices allows you to read a simple definition of terms like croup and stop. When I searched and pulled it up on my phone, I thought the wording would be very helpful. However, that link won't open on the main site when accessed from a computer. I can't even find the definitions on the main site. Which sucks because I'd like to copy and paste some of the info here to restore some credibility to my original intent and post.
When life hands you lemons, make lemonade. When life hands you limes, grab the tequila. I think some of these folks had too many limes on their hands.
With that said, the pictures on this site may be quite helpful.
It is difficult to evaluate and critique a quality dog. If two dogs meet the standard, it comes down to literally splitting hairs to determine which dog is the best and that is subjective and based on opinion on that particular day. Maybe using some of the pictures from this site will help us understand the terms and definitions in the standard by demonstrating the faults. Some of these dogs are "wrong" in so many ways.
While I'm sure these dogs are loved by their owners, and may be the sweetest, most wonderful family dogs, I can guarantee that they are a far cry from the DPCA's standard. Even without the proper stack, you can see some of the issues.
Let's critique these dogs to help us learn to critique our own.
Edited at the request of Kitty's Mom:
I've learned something today. Not all web sites and search engine results are created equally. The "M" link for mobile devices allows you to read a simple definition of terms like croup and stop. When I searched and pulled it up on my phone, I thought the wording would be very helpful. However, that link won't open on the main site when accessed from a computer. I can't even find the definitions on the main site. Which sucks because I'd like to copy and paste some of the info here to restore some credibility to my original intent and post.
When life hands you lemons, make lemonade. When life hands you limes, grab the tequila. I think some of these folks had too many limes on their hands.
With that said, the pictures on this site may be quite helpful.It is difficult to evaluate and critique a quality dog. If two dogs meet the standard, it comes down to literally splitting hairs to determine which dog is the best and that is subjective and based on opinion on that particular day. Maybe using some of the pictures from this site will help us understand the terms and definitions in the standard by demonstrating the faults. Some of these dogs are "wrong" in so many ways.
While I'm sure these dogs are loved by their owners, and may be the sweetest, most wonderful family dogs, I can guarantee that they are a far cry from the DPCA's standard. Even without the proper stack, you can see some of the issues.
Let's critique these dogs to help us learn to critique our own.
Last edited by a moderator:
Not to go OT, but I've never seen a site designed quite like this before, and I cropped a lot off from my screenshot.
Kitty's mom
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Not to go OT, but I've never seen a site designed quite like this before, and I cropped a lot off from my screenshot.
View attachment 37141
OMGI was looking for a site with good definitions of the terms. Unfortunately that was the only part of the site I looked at. Let's say the examples of the breed are quite lacking.
Rits
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I think it is because it is a mobile link and they are showing you what it looks like to a mobile user to a PC user. You can tell by the "m." before the url. Still pretty nifty that you can see what mobile users see!Not to go OT, but I've never seen a site designed quite like this before, and I cropped a lot off from my screenshot.
View attachment 37141
Panama
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No, they don't use very good examples of the breed. Can't tell if the fawn they show is just a poorly bred Dobe, Weim or a x of the two. Any site that would have a "standard" for a Doodleman. Doberman Shepherd...and a nearly endless list of mixed breed, wouldn't be a site I'd recommend to anyone to see examples of the breed.
Kitty's mom
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I'm seriously embarrassed by my posted link. I had hoped to help the users unfamiliar with the terminology and did zero investigation of the rest of the site. (That will teach me to trust a search engine! ) JanS, or other mod, please take it down as it is going to cause confusion.
If we want to keep it for the "I can't believe this bs factor" it should be in hott topics.
If we want to keep it for the "I can't believe this bs factor" it should be in hott topics.
Oh goodness, don't be embarrassed. I think we've all done that where we see one thing and the link brings up something totally different.
Kitty's mom
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I agree and Jan is going to edit my original post. It's hard to understand the standard when quality dogs are so similar. I think we can use some of these pictures to help the others understand the terms and the contrast in quality. If we lose sight of the standard, we end up with purebreds that look like the crosses. If I had known the full content of the site, I would have never posted the link in this thread. But since the bell can't be unrung, lets have some fun!
Dobs4ever
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I was able to attend part of the judges seminar at DPCA Natls and LOVED LOVED LOVED Faye Strauss strongly emphasizing the c/d part of the standard to the judges in attendance. I sincerely hope we can come up with a plan that helps judges understand that our breed is c/d and square - Hopefully the fads are beginning to fade out that we have seen the past 10 years or so. I know the DPCA board is working hard to educate judges on the deviation required for uncropped and undocked as it does not meet our standard.
Now back to fronts - really shows up in movement especially on the down and back. The judge is looking for a single track meaning the back feet are placed in the spot the front foot just left. Even though the Doberman is a galloping breed we require them to trot in the ring as we could not show them at a gallop - no one is that fast. The judge is looking for tight elbows not elbows that appear to be held away from the side of the dog. Structure directly affects movement and in movement you can't hide the faults like you can when stacking. I saw way too many toeing in at Natls and saw some fronts that were too forward which restricts reach. Faye really stressed for the judges to burn this picture into their mind when they are in the ring so they recognize correct.
Here is the picture of the ideal dog - I was going to post it at the end but will post it now also.
Now back to fronts - really shows up in movement especially on the down and back. The judge is looking for a single track meaning the back feet are placed in the spot the front foot just left. Even though the Doberman is a galloping breed we require them to trot in the ring as we could not show them at a gallop - no one is that fast. The judge is looking for tight elbows not elbows that appear to be held away from the side of the dog. Structure directly affects movement and in movement you can't hide the faults like you can when stacking. I saw way too many toeing in at Natls and saw some fronts that were too forward which restricts reach. Faye really stressed for the judges to burn this picture into their mind when they are in the ring so they recognize correct.
Here is the picture of the ideal dog - I was going to post it at the end but will post it now also.
