Proud but complaining

[Ravenbird]

DPCA sends me a certificate just like AKC does when I get a new title. This time they tucked in a little piece of paper saying looks like Asha is eligible for Versatitliy Award. I knew that, but the stickler is that I have to be a DPCA member to get it. To be a DPCA member you have to jump through a dozen hoops, including a long time member in good standing having seen your place of residence in person and vouching for you as well as being a member of a local club (There is no DPCA club in NM) ... and then chances are they still won't vote you in. Asking @Rits...did you ever get in? All that discussion is in another thread... But if they TRULY are for the Doberman BREED, not for just paying members of their club, why dismiss an honorable dog because its owner can't get a membership? The number of versatile Dobermans would be impressive if it was available to non-members and they could use those numbers for a selling point of the breed. Non members, I'm sure, would be happy to pay for the title, just like we pay for some titles in AKC, like CGC, Trick Dog etc. so it would be another little money maker for them. So despite DPCA's snobbery, here's my brag:

 

[JanS]

To be a DPCA member you have to jump through a dozen hoops, including a long time member in good standing having seen your place of residence in person and vouching for you

I've been watching it very closely for a couple years now since they send an email listing new applicants and another one saying who got in. Last month 4 out of 4 applicants got in and the month before 5 out of 5 got in so they're getting a little better in that respect. I don't believe they require the home visit anymore and I've never heard the requirement of being in a local club, but I could be wrong.

 

[LifeofRubie]

I'm sure on one hand it's like: We've already done ALL this work! And you are recognizing it in asking if we want this title!

On the other: What is the appeal to be a paying member if your club doles out titles to 'everyone else.'

Now, if there are several roadblocks like you mention above (particularly no member group in your entire state), then I agree, there should be some sort of compromise or exception. WE all know you two are Masters of Excellence (misuse of their terms, I'm sure. IDC.)

 

[Ravenbird]

I've been watching it very closely for a couple years now since they send an email listing new applicants and another one saying who got in. Last month 4 out of 4 applicants got in and the month before 5 out of 5 got in so they're getting a little better in that respect. I don't believe they require the home visit anymore and I've never heard the requirement of being in a local club, but I could be wrong.

I use to want to join because I'm passionate about the breed, but after following the actions, some of the internal bickering, and their snootiness toward crop & dock has turned me off to a point where I don't have any intentions of applying. The only DPCA member I personally know is the breeder of my dog, so I'd have to meet and "personally know" another for at least a year before I'd even have two sponsors. It just sounds like an exclusive club rather than a club for people who are concerned and passionate about the breeds future.

They have lightened up the in-home requirements, you can have both sponsors view a live-video walk-through rather than one live visit and it appears the local club membership is just heavily suggested, not a requirement.

From the website:

Before you begin the application process, please ensure that you and your sponsors meet the following requirements:

1. You are in good standing with the American Kennel Club (AKC).
2. You currently own or have previously owned Doberman(s).
3. Youwere/are active in the dog community, as demonstrated by one or more of the following:
   1. Club membership
   2. Actively showed/showing Dobermans
   3. Bred/Breeding titled AKC Dobermans
4. You are not currently under investigation by the AKC or any animal welfare agency.
5. Each sponsor must:
   1. Be a DPCA member in good standing for at least the past five (5) consecutive years
   2. Not reside in your household
   3. Not be part of the same household as the other sponsor
   4. Have sponsored no more than two (2) applicants in the current calendar year
   5. Have known you personally for at least one (1) year and be willing to sponsor your membership
   6. Complete and sign their individual Sponsor Form within 30 days
6. Home visit requirement (within the last 6 months):
   1. Option 1: At least one sponsor must have conducted an in-person visit to your current home where your Doberman(s) reside
   2. OR Option 2: Both sponsors must have completed a real-time virtual home visit via video call to assess the living environment and care of your Doberman(s)
7. You must provide the correct email addresses for both sponsors

If all the above requirements are met, you may proceed by clicking the application link below.

 

[Ravenbird]

What is the appeal to be a paying member if your club doles out titles to 'everyone else.'

I do totally get this. And actually kind of agree. I guess what chaps me is that at one point I really wanted to join and be a voice in the club that makes rules and stipulations about the Doberman breed, but I couldn't qualify due to their requirements.

The UDC has a similar award, but because it's a working Doberman club the expansion of titles is more varied, but I think I have to have either IGP1 or a Tracking title as one of the titles but I'm going to review the list to see. LOL, I guess I need to go back to SchH training...

 

[JanS]

The prior president told me that there are people like PETA members who only want to get in to get inside info and of course stop cropping and docking. I guess that's when they really started tightening up the rules but if they have reputable members sponsoring them, I don't think it's necessary. Quite a few members have talked about dropping their membership but others encourage them to stay in so they still have the right to vote. I've been a member since 2011 so I have full voting rights.

 

[Rits]

Have sponsored no more than two (2) applicants in the current calendar year

This is where I have issues. I know a lot of people that would gladly sponsor me, but they've already met their sponsor limit...

I did see they changed it from visiting the home to the optional both have to do a virtual visit which is fine and I would gladly do. The prior rule of the sponsor must have done an in person visit was super limiting, as I wasn't about to ask my sponsor to make a 3-4+ hr drive to come walk through my home to see within the first 5 minutes that I'm not some horrible person or owner.

My dogs apply for the versatility awards too but we're not members. Them rejecting me during that mass rejection a few years back because the board that voted on my application "didn't know my sponsors well enough" after already being vetted by two sponsors and all of the qualifications was enough to send me, my money, and volunteer time to other clubs. These clubs gladly accepted us and couldn't be happier! I'm sure one day I'll apply again but my focus is where I'm wanted. Why even have sponsors if they can just vote you down because you didn't pick "popular enough" sponsors...?

Congratulations, btw!

 

[Rits]

Oh, and I don't think you have to be a member of a DPCA chapter club to qualify. Another club like a working dog club or an all breed AKC chapter club should be fine.

 

[JanS]

Why even have sponsors if they can just vote you down because you didn't pick "popular enough" sponsors...?

That's exactly one of my beefs.

 

[Ravenbird]

I don't think you have to be a member of a DPCA chapter club to qualify

yeah, when I looked back a the rules it says "one or more of the following". Of course I don't breed, so then it's down to club membership or showing. And I'll assume showing means trialing, not just conformation, but I know the attitude is there about confo being the desired thing. My bad assuming it was just a DPCA chapter club, and I guess my UDC membership would qualify. But again, I haven't participated as the closest UDC trial to me was in Kansas, that 12 hour trip, one way. And I do belong to our little local Kennel Club here, but it's not even sanctioned to hold a show (cost & insurance, they didn't apply for that status).

I wasn't about to ask my sponsor to make a 3-4+ hr drive to come walk through my home to see within the first 5 minutes that I'm not some horrible person or owner.

Right? And my breeder is a 12 hour drive. And I don't know a 2nd one personally anyway now that they've approved a virtual walk through, so I'm still not eligible.

my focus is where I'm wanted. Why even have sponsors if they can just vote you down because you didn't pick "popular enough" sponsors...?

That's where I am with this. Yes, I'm complaining, but should have clarified I'm not looking for an answer and certainly don't expect the DPCA to ever change. It's pretty far off the rails as far as I'm concerned for being a voice for the breed. More of an exclusive club...

And to be a DPCA recommended breeder, you have to be in their good standing for 5 years. I know that you are over & beyond what most breeders do from whelping day to going to their new homes and you video & publish it for everyone to see (hahaha, the virtual tour on steroids). I'm sad for breeders like you not getting a spot on their page for being recognized.

My rant is over, I'm so proud of my Asha and her titles and the ride that she's taken me on for 6 years. That's really all that matters.

 

[Two Dobes]

I was disappointed years ago, I was a member, and then I was late with my 'dues'....I called when I realized I never sent a check, and wanted to give a credit card - they told me I had to RE APPLY all over again! WTF?! I think it was 2 weeks late. Re apply? As said; it was hard enough to get the sponsers signatures... I had to do it at the Nationals where I knew people who knew me...so I gave up being a member.

 

[Ravenbird]

I was disappointed years ago, I was a member, and then I was late with my 'dues'....I called when I realized I never sent a check, and wanted to give a credit card - they told me I had to RE APPLY all over again! WTF?! I think it was 2 weeks late. Re apply? As said; it was hard enough to get the sponsers signatures... I had to do it at the Nationals where I knew people who knew me...so I gave up being a member.

I was first interested in joining when puppy searching, 2018/2019, then following several of their members the next few years, then seeing so many comments just like what you posted - basically "normal" Doberman people who wanted to show support & help for the breed and the breed club being excluded in favor of popular mover/shakers in the show world.

 

[BGpa]

I wonder how much demand there actually is among new dobe owners to compete at AKC shows.

My impression, limited as it is to what I read online or see in pictures is the show world is sort of elitist and more focused on ego than preserving the breed or the sport.

The obvious "free market proof" is the rise of all sorts of fun dogsport outside of AKC by people who just want to have fun with dogs.

I've had a couple conversations with new breeders who seemed to be doing all the right things but felt like "gate-keeping" and even a sense of snobbery is turning others off.

But thats just an admittedly "new to the breed, never been interested in show dog world" perspective, so I may be a reverse snob amiright?

I saw enough stupid and crazy politics in daughters time in hunter-jumpers to last a lifetime, but again...thats just me.

I think I'm more of a fit with the working show folk, but again...to be fair, I need to go see shows and talk to people, in the biz.

Pretty disappointing that DPCA leadership is apparently more worried about maintaining a fashion issue than bringing in new blood. I see they have a mentorship program on DPCAs website but I dont see many examples. The winners seem to be those who can pay up for professional trainers, handlers, not many young people but I guess I need to go see in person at regional shows.

Its like the debate on positive only training...things evolve but reality still matters.
Once upon a time dobes were cropped for a reason, and in some cases it still applies. I see some places allow uncropped undocked dogs to compete- and some do well so why cant it be both in the show standard?

So it should not be a top down bureaucratic imperative imposed by nanny state know-it-alls who dont...I wouldnt worry about the PETA nitwits but thats just me.

 

[JanS]

I wonder how much demand there actually is among new dobe owners to compete at AKC shows.

The competition is fierce, at least when they first get the breed. If they don't have a mentor with a reputation in the AKC ring, they get chased off pretty fast. I'm just talking about conformation since the performance sports are totally different.

 

[BGpa]

The competition is fierce, at least when they first get the breed. If they don't have a mentor with a reputation in the AKC ring, they get chased off pretty fast. I'm just talking about conformation since the performance sports are totally different.

Hmm, that validates my impression its elitist and gate keeping...but then again I'm just a noob, and not even in the peanut gallery.

Well, to each their own.
I'm reminded of that quote by Groucho Marrx...

 

[JanS]

that validates my impression its elitist and gate keeping..

That's why many of us enjoy UKC shows so much more. There is still a lot of competition but competitors cheer each other on instead of telling them they don't belong here.

 

[BGpa]

Thanks @JanS !
Thats my next step- find and attend a UDC/AWDF/UKC event.

 

[Rits]

The show world isn't bad and there are far more good people than there are nasty. Every corner of any kind of competition with people involved has people full of drama with a chip on their shoulder. I would not let a few sour apples discourage someone from wanting a well bred dog or getting involved in conformation or any AKC clubs and sports. We need our confo people as much as we need our working people.

 

[Ravenbird]

The show world isn't bad and there are far more good people than there are nasty. Every corner of any kind of competition with people involved has people full of drama with a chip on their shoulder. I would not let a few sour apples discourage someone from wanting a well bred dog or getting involved in conformation or any AKC clubs and sports. We need our confo people as much as we need our working people.

I agree with this, 100%. You must let your passions lead you in life. If it's conformation, do that & pour yourself into and don't let the snobs get you down. Same with bitey sports or AKC sports! I don't let the nay-sayers stop me from trying!

I apologize that I get a little huffy at the DPCA, but it's the leaders of this group who should be the most welcoming and encouraging to ALL Doberman people that somehow make it most difficult to feel welcome. If I was passionate about conformation I'd do it and not care what anyone said. It's the DPCA itself that I express disappointment over. The one time I sat down and watched conformation live at a show, there were several people who were very welcoming and the club who hosted that show had welcoming members, and the person sitting next to me answered some questions I had as the dogs went around the ring, and then offered more explanations of what was going on without me even asking. So my personal experience with that show was actually quite nice.

You are one of the few who step out of the conformation ring and into sports to try to uphold what this breed is all about and I see that effort at the very highest pedestal an owner or breeder can strive for.

 

[BGpa]

I agree with this, 100%. You must let your passions lead you in life. If it's conformation, do that & pour yourself into and don't let the snobs get you down. Same with bitey sports or AKC sports! I don't let the nay-sayers stop me from trying!

I apologize that I get a little huffy at the DPCA, but it's the leaders of this group who should be the most welcoming and encouraging to ALL Doberman people that somehow make it most difficult to feel welcome. If I was passionate about conformation I'd do it and not care what anyone said. It's the DPCA itself that I express disappointment over. The one time I sat down and watched conformation live at a show, there were several people who were very welcoming and the club who hosted that show had welcoming members, and the person sitting next to me answered some questions I had as the dogs went around the ring, and then offered more explanations of what was going on without me even asking. So my personal experience with that show was actually quite nice.

You are one of the few who step out of the conformation ring and into sports to try to uphold what this breed is all about and I see that effort at the very highest pedestal an owner or breeder can strive for.

+1 to you @Rits for being an inspiration.
Never mind me getting grumpy...