Thoughts on Gastroplexy?

[Aaron56]

I'm not sure why you would argue against a preventative LIFE saving and very minimal surgery, possibly leading others astray?

If the stuff was so safe and so easy then WHY on earth would Vets / Doberman breeders / owners that I know personally not do that to their own animals?

Vets that actually own their own practices and can do that sort of stuff on their own dogs for very, very minimal costs to them...

Why would they not do that on every single Doberman they had on hand at any given time?

You make it sound like that is an easy surgery for any Vet to do so WHY would they not do that?

You also make it sound like this is a common Doberman problem so WHY would they not do that if this was a common problem with the breed?




Both of the Doberman breeders I mentioned mostly sold locally to them (Kuhlmann had a bigger reach but still - 'Most' of those dogs he produced were sold locally)

Local Doberman owners that are very likely to be using that same exact Vet they bought the dog from for their doggie care afterwards...

In a good world you would think that if a breeder was seeing signs of problems in whatever line that they would stop and try to figure out why?

Or tell the other owners that 'you need to do this' now...

 

[GennyB]

If the stuff was so safe and so easy then WHY on earth would Vets / Doberman breeders / owners that I know personally not do that to their own animals?

Vets that actually own their own practices and can do that sort of stuff on their own dogs for very, very minimal costs to them...

Why would they not do that on every single Doberman they had on hand at any given time?

You make it sound like that is an easy surgery for any Vet to do so WHY would they not do that?

You also make it sound like this is a common Doberman problem so WHY would they not do that if this was a common problem with the breed?




Both of the Doberman breeders I mentioned mostly sold locally to them (Kuhlmann had a bigger reach but still - 'Most' of those dogs he produced were sold locally)

Local Doberman owners that are very likely to be using that same exact Vet they bought the dog from for their doggie care afterwards...

In a good world you would think that if a breeder was seeing signs of problems in whatever line that they would stop and try to figure out why?

Or tell the other owners that 'you need to do this' now...

Good questions. ....ones that would make me question the competency of the Vets you mentioned.
Not trying to be rude, but your argument is ridiculous. This procedure has been proven to save lives so I don't see where you even have a leg to stand on.
Bottom line it's your opinion, your money and your dog. Make the decision that works for you. Don't argue with someone that is doing the same.

 

[LucyXIII]

Just because they don't see it there, it still happens more often than people think; especially in certain breeds. I didn't even have to ask our vet, it was just on the list of things they can and will do during a spay and of course I said yes.

Minimizing exposure to general anesthesia is a good guideline. If they're under anyway, let's get stuff done.

I loved our vet all the more when she mentioned waiting to neuter Angel until he was at least 18mons, and doing the gastropexy at the same time. I didn't say it ask for anything.

 

[Aaron56]

Good questions. ....ones that would make me question the competency of the Vets you mentioned.
Not trying to be rude, but your argument is ridiculous. This procedure has been proven to save lives so I don't see where you even have a leg to stand on.
Bottom line it's your opinion, your money and your dog. Make the decision that works for you. Don't argue with someone that is doing the same.

Vets that actually went to school for many years AND passed an exam (or 2) so they could get an actual license to practice...


AND owned and bred Dobermans that did not require a 'warning' to any buyers of those puppies they 'they may want to consider a special surgery to prevent bloat because'...

Vets that actually kept track of and had experience with the litters they produced... (silly stuff like actually hands on inspecting the dogs every year)





In my opinion a 'good' breeder ought to notify their previous puppy buyers if they are having special problems with the parent / adult. Problems that are not at all remotely what one could (or should) consider 'normal' to the breed for example...

My decisions are based more on my actual experiences and less on crap I read on the internet and blindly take as gospel without doing my own due diligence.

While it 'is' possible than an asteroid could fall on either one of my current dogs right now (or 5 minutes from now) - It is extremely unlikely.

If I take particular 'extra measures' such as mentioned above it becomes even less 'likely' to happen.

 

[BGpa]

Vets that actually went to school for many years AND passed an exam (or 2) so they could get an actual license to practice...


AND owned and bred Dobermans that did not require a 'warning' to any buyers of those puppies they 'they may want to consider a special surgery to prevent bloat because'...

Vets that actually kept track of and had experience with the litters they produced... (silly stuff like actually hands on inspecting the dogs every year)





In my opinion a 'good' breeder ought to notify their previous puppy buyers if they are having special problems with the parent / adult. Problems that are not at all remotely what one could (or should) consider 'normal' to the breed for example...

My decisions are based more on my actual experiences and less on crap I read on the internet and blindly take as gospel without doing my own due diligence.

While it 'is' possible than an asteroid could fall on either one of my current dogs right now (or 5 minutes from now) - It is extremely unlikely.

If I take particular 'extra measures' such as mentioned above it becomes even less 'likely' to happen.

@Aaron56 I greatly respect and carefully read your old school experience, and try to learn from it (see my query on hydrogen peroxide)
But I'd respectfully suggest there is a LOT of good research being done and the field of vet medicine is clearly expanding fast.

The innertubez and search engines or now AI are only a tool. I agree they and results have to be interpreted carefully, and applied with ones own best judgement.

Vets are people like us, and age out, sometimes set in their ways, or with a practice and customers that are more rural, down to earth, and thats human nature (ever read the books or watch the series based on them "All Creatures Wise ...")

Me, I'm interested in everything and enjoy the frank discussions and try not to take a difference of opinion personally...just a highly useful pointer to go look at something I might not have heard of before- grateful for the tip.

Like on yours.
Or others.
"YMMV and my $0.02 only."

 

[GennyB]

Vets that actually went to school for many years AND passed an exam (or 2) so they could get an actual license to practice...


AND owned and bred Dobermans that did not require a 'warning' to any buyers of those puppies they 'they may want to consider a special surgery to prevent bloat because'...

Vets that actually kept track of and had experience with the litters they produced... (silly stuff like actually hands on inspecting the dogs every year)





In my opinion a 'good' breeder ought to notify their previous puppy buyers if they are having special problems with the parent / adult. Problems that are not at all remotely what one could (or should) consider 'normal' to the breed for example...

My decisions are based more on my actual experiences and less on crap I read on the internet and blindly take as gospel without doing my own due diligence.

While it 'is' possible than an asteroid could fall on either one of my current dogs right now (or 5 minutes from now) - It is extremely unlikely.

If I take particular 'extra measures' such as mentioned above it becomes even less 'likely' to happen.

I think you are missing the point. We are a forum that enjoys the doberman breed and tries our best to educate owners about the breed. I, and I am certain that others agree, that we want to put the best information out there. You made your point that you think gastroplexy is unnecessary. That said, more than one member has said that their Vet has recommended doing it while the dog is under for another procedure and like I said as well as others, IT CAN LIFE SAVING.
I will add that only 2 Vets out of 1000's practicing today does little to make your argument stronger. I think it's time to agree to disagree.

 

[JanS]

We are a forum that enjoys the doberman breed and tries our best to educate owners about the breed. I, and I am certain that others agree, that we want to put the best information out there. You made your point that you think gastroplexy is unnecessary. That said, more than one member has said that their Vet has recommended doing it while the dog is under for another procedure and like I said as well as others, IT CAN LIFE SAVING.
I will add that only 2 Vets out of 1000's practicing today does little to make your argument stronger. I think it's time to agree to disagree.

Very well said!

 

[Rits]

My decisions are based more on my actual experiences and less on crap I read on the internet and blindly take as gospel without doing my own due diligence.

I'm surrounded by a plethora of doberman breeders every weekend. Those who have been in the breed for 50+ years. I research actual scientific literature. This is the standard up to date consensus based on thousands of dogs and dobermans, not a vet or two and a small handful of dobermans. As they say, you do you, but I certainly won't allow someone to preach and try to convince others that it is completely unnecessary without speaking up when that is far from the truth. It's like wearing a seatbelt. It is one thing to choose to not wear one yourself, that's your choice, but please don't try to convince others that seatbelts don't save lives. Plain and simple, statistics don't lie. Maybe it's time for your old school vets to brush up on modern medicine. Just because they haven't done it all these years doesn't mean that is what is best today. There's always room for growth.

 

[Aaron56]

I will add that only 2 Vets out of 1000's practicing today does little to make your argument stronger. I think it's time to agree to disagree.

Only 2 huh?

Current clinic I use has 3 really great Vet ladies there and so far after regularly using them for 4yrs or so now not a single one of those ladies has tried to give me a speech about how 'important' it was to have this surgery done on any of my Dobermans.

20+ years of raising Dobermans so far (and usually in pairs) and have never had a problem with bloat following the simple steps outlines previously concerning feeding and activity.

Have never had a Vet over the years try to sell me on this sort of surgery for a Doberman. At any clinic...

If one 'did' try to sell me on this crap I would be asking for studies to be cited showing me how they came up with their numbers.

 

[GennyB]

Only 2 huh?

Current clinic I use has 3 really great Vet ladies there and so far after regularly using them for 4yrs or so now not a single one of those ladies has tried to give me a speech about how 'important' it was to have this surgery done on any of my Dobermans.

20+ years of raising Dobermans so far (and usually in pairs) and have never had a problem with bloat following the simple steps outlines previously concerning feeding and activity.

Have never had a Vet over the years try to sell me on this sort of surgery for a Doberman. At any clinic...

If one 'did' try to sell me on this crap I would be asking for studies to be cited showing me how they came up with their numbers.

Like I said, It's time to agree to disagree.

 

[JanS]

@Aaron56 , a moderator asked you to let it go so please do so. You had your chance to get your opinion or experiences out there so now it's time to stop arguing your point and let others chime in with their thoughts and experiences.

 

[Aaron56]

@Aaron56 , a moderator asked you to let it go so please do so. You had your chance to get your opinion or experiences out there so now it's time to stop arguing your point and let others chime in with their thoughts and experiences.

How about they chime in with some actual statistics from any of the major Veterinary journals or links to actual peer reviewed Veterinary studies.

I will predict right now that is NOT going to happen.

If they did try to cite any real data it would show how extremely rare of a condition this is.

'Possible' but not 'Probable' is where this condition fits with respect to Dobermans.