Thoughts on Gastroplexy?

[Sage024]

I’m moving into a new apartment complex soon and there are a few dobies there. One of the dobes just recently passed from stomach flipping, at 11 years old. The other dobe is a six month female that was just spayed and had a gastroplexy at the same time. I’m waiting until Kanda is like 1.5-2 years to neuter him, what are y’all’s thoughts on gastroplexy? Would you recommend it as a preventative? Do I wait until I neuter him or is that something I should have done sooner?

 

[maddie9955]

Our first doberman had bloat so we decided that would do the gastropexy on dogs in the future. We did it with both our male and our female when they were fixed. I think that we feel better having done it.

 

[Sage024]

Our first doberman had bloat so we decided that would do the gastropexy on dogs in the future. We did it with both our male and our female when they were fixed. I think that we feel better having done it.

Out of curiosity, was your first dobe an American or European?

 

[maddie9955]

American. We did catch it in time and he made through the surgery. It was expensive and not something I would want
to go through again.

 

[Firestar Dobe]

We had the Sinisters done when they went in for a spay, that way they only needed 1 surgery as opposed to 2.

 

[strykerdobe]

Gastropexy doesn't stop Bloat just keeps the stomach from twisting.
We always keep Gas-X around. But it will not help with Gastric dilatation volvulus (stomach twisting)
It probably is a good idea to have done.

If you are going to hold off doing it this is what we were doing to help prevent Bloat.
No hard exercising, jumping and running 2hrs before feeding and at least for 2hrs after feeding and keeping them in their crates napping. Not a lot of water during play.
We always feed in a bowl on the floor. Some say feed in raised bowls. Dogs who woof down their food can take in a lot of air.

 

[Ziva23]

Gastropexy doesn't stop Bloat just keeps the stomach from twisting.
We always keep Gas-X around. But it will not help with Gastric dilatation volvulus (stomach twisting)
It probably is a good idea to have done.

If you are going to hold off doing it this is what we were doing to help prevent Bloat.
No hard exercising, jumping and running 2hrs before feeding and at least for 2hrs after feeding and keeping them in their crates napping. Not a lot of water during play.
We always feed in a bowl on the floor. Some say feed in raised bowls. Dogs who woof down their food can take in a lot of air.

You said it won't help with stomach twisting, but I don't think that is correct. Gastroplexy prevents stomach flipping or twisting. That literally is the purpose of the surgery. It doesn't prevent gas or bloating but it does prevent the life ending stomach twisting

 

[JanS]

You said it won't help with stomach twisting, but I don't think that is correct. Gastroplexy prevents stomach flipping or twisting.

That's what he meant, he just forgot the comma between bloat, and just keeps the stomach from twisting.

 

[Aaron56]

You said it won't help with stomach twisting, but I don't think that is correct. Gastroplexy prevents stomach flipping or twisting. That literally is the purpose of the surgery. It doesn't prevent gas or bloating but it does prevent the life ending stomach twisting

So far I have never had any issues with any Dobermans of mine and bloat. Of the 6 I have buried so far none ever had any issues with bloat and never required any sort of surgery to prevent it.

I do follow the same tips that strykerdobe mentioned and believe they are sound tips to follow.

No hard exercising, jumping and running 2hrs before feeding and at least for 2hrs after feeding and keeping them in their crates napping. Not a lot of water during play.
We always feed in a bowl on the floor.

A lot of owners don't understand that some stomach movement is normal. Most times they never see it when it does happen or are never looking in the right place to begin with to try and see if it is happening. Gets harder to see as well as the dog gets older.

Had a young puppy one time that showed me first hand just how much a tummy can 'normally' move around and not be a problem.

Girl was around 3ish months old and when I would go to feed her and watching her as she ate I kept seeing what looked like a finger poking out from under her skin and moving around back in her tummy area. Looked pretty clear to me that somehow she had a broken rib back there.

Soon after the meal was finished I could not for the life of me see it any more or tell where exactly it had happened at. Zero signs of pain or discomfort when pressing on the dogs bones back there and doing a hands on inspection... The stuff just went away and everything was back to normal looking - within minutes of the meal being done.

Until the next time I went to feed her and I saw the finger / rib bone poking out from under her skin again!

Just like the previous times everything went back to normal as soon as the meal was done and dog never seemed to be in any pain.

I saw that bone poke out and move around enough times that I was darn sure that dog had a broken rib regardless of if she felt no pain or not or if I could not see it all the time or not so I scheduled her a trip to the Vet.

Vet did the same thing I did at home. He looked at her, squeezed on her back there, had her move / walk around a little while he observed her... Told me 'She was fine / nothing to worry about here and that will be $65.00 now, Thank You!'.

I insisted on an x-ray cause I am smart and knew darn well that dog had a broken something going on back there. Vet did the X-ray as I requested then showed me how nothing was broken and everything was as it should be with respect to her rib bones. Then explained about cartilage forming / hardening and doggie rib bones back there (floating ribs), how the tummy naturally moves around when the dog is using it / eating and can sometimes push a rib out of place like I saw when moving around a lot, and how by the time she was 6 months she would be developed enough that I would not be seeing any of this stuff any longer.

The guy was correct in everything he told me. I just did not know because 'floating ribs' is not quite as common in Dobermans as it is other breeds and I got 'lucky' with one.

If you watch closely back there where their tummy actually is when they eat (and especially when it is a 'high value' meal they are having to wait for you to prepare (dogs are anticipating it) - You will see stuff (the stomach) moving around and that is completely normal. Becomes harder to see as they age and develop but it is still happening.

If they got to watch and smell it as you cook some stuff like this up for them and then see you mix it in with their kibble -

Them tummies is going to be moving around!

I never saw any signs of anything amiss with that same girl if the meal was 'boring' for her. Plain kibble never resulted in any poking out of anything regardless of her age. A pile of meat in the kibble would do it every time (until about 6 months of age like the doc said).

 

[JanS]

So far I have never had any issues with any Dobermans of mine and bloat.

I know a quite a few people who have had issues with it. My friend lost her Doberman to it a few years ago but if we would have normal emergency care around here is stomach probably wouldn't have flipped. Our vet is 5 minutes from her house but she had to take him to BP 1.5 hours away and it was too late by the time she got him there.
One of our members (I won't name names) just dealt with it in the last couple weeks and it is a real medical emergency when it happens. Thankfully her girl pulled through with quick medical care.

 

[Rits]

just dealt with it in the last couple weeks and it is a real medical emergency when it happens. Thankfully her girl pulled through with quick medical care.

that was me and Ripley. We did everything right and have been for years. Never exercise two hours before or after a meal. Small meals. Soaked kibble.

It was a very relaxed evening...she ate, pottied, and went to bed. 90 min later she woke up uncomfortable so we thought she had to potty. Potty yard is just big enough to go potty in and she's not one to horse around and get worked up. She came inside and was calmly pacing from one end of the house to the other, with her neck and head low. My eyes were on her at this point because I knew she was starting to look like "bloat" with these behaviors. Soon as she attempted to vomit twice with nothing productive (stage 1), I quickly gave her two gas-x capsules and we were out the door and on the way to the ER, and on the phone notifying them we were coming and what for. Her gums were normal color when we loaded her in the car and pale when we arrived to our nearest ER (50 minutes away). She also started whining on the ride there, which she never does in her crate in the car, so I knew this was bad and likely her stomach had flipped at this point (stage 2/GDV).

They take her back right away, relieve any remaining gas with a tap through her side directly into her stomach, they also tube her to empty her stomach contents and more gas. Confirmed via xray her stomach had flipped. Unfortunately had to wait for the surgeon to finish another GDV surgery before her, only surgeon on call in the SECOND LARGEST city in IN (vet shortage). She has another xray about 2ish hours later to confirm her stomach is still flipped, although it was looking better and possibly started to unflip itself. They go through surgery anyways just to be safe and by the time they opened her up, it had un-flipped. The vet said it is VERY rare to happen but not impossible, she has seen it happen twice in her short career (new grad of 2 years) and that she would not have made it if we didn't get her in as soon as we did to immediately relieve her stomach of the gas that the gas pill was too slow to do.

Of course she had a gastropexy done while under. I had always planned on having it done once she was spayed. The gastropexy will not prevent bloat (stomach filling with gas) but will prevent the stomach from flipping (GDV) which is the deadly part of bloat. Although, in other cases, the stomach can bloat and the spleen can then twist... so the vet urged that it is still important to treat bloat as an emergency case and come right in even after gastropexy. The vet said they don't 100% know why bloat happens because sometimes you can do everything right like we did and it still happens. Deep chested breeds are more prone to it with Great Danes something like 50-60% WILL bloat so they are urged to get a gastropexy done as early as 6 months old via laparoscopy.

FWIW, Ripley's grandmother bloated and died due to incompetent vets. She was sleeping on the couch when she bloated...

 

[strykerdobe]

Would also check around and look into a laparoscopic gastropexy. Its less invasive. I just recently watched a seminar by The Schwarzman Animal Medical Center.

 

[JanS]

that was me and Ripley.

Thank you for sharing your important story. I didn't want to tag you since I wasn't sure how much you wanted to get it out there. I'm so thankful she pulled through.

Ripley's grandmother bloated and died due to incompetent vets.

I didn't know that but all the more reason I'm glad we had Olive's done.

 

[BGpa]

Thank you for sharing your important story. I didn't want to tag you since I wasn't sure how much you wanted to get it out there. I'm so thankful she pulled through.

I didn't know that but all the more reason I'm glad we had Olive's done.

Good info here, TY to all.
Fwiw: when Bonnie was (mis)disagnosed with possible pyo, we scheduled first opening at our regular vet on Monday - at 14 months. I'd planned and rather we waited to two years, per the UCSD study recc 24 months but of course the maybe pyo concern was key...
the UTI/recurrent anal glands infections went away after spay too...(so go figure, juvenile immature system, whatevs)

Back to tack-n-spay- asked my twenty year vet about gastropexy and he said "we dont see much (bloat/GDV) here, so we don't do that here, dont really need it..."
...so we put that off.

I'm very careful on the "no hard exercise/play 2hrs before and after feed" and so far so good...fingers crossed.

 

[JanS]

asked my twenty year vet about gastropexy and he said "we dont see much (bloat/GDV) here, so we don't do that here, dont really need it..."

Just because they don't see it there, it still happens more often than people think; especially in certain breeds. I didn't even have to ask our vet, it was just on the list of things they can and will do during a spay and of course I said yes.

 

[Rits]

Thank you for sharing your important story. I didn't want to tag you since I wasn't sure how much you wanted to get it out there.

I greatly appreciate that, thank you.

Back to tack-n-spay- asked my twenty year vet about gastropexy and he said "we dont see much (bloat/GDV) here, so we don't do that here, dont really need it..."
...so we put that off.

Yea, I would have it done with this breed. Not sure if its a rural vet or not but honestly general vets often don't see a lot of these sorts of things because people simply don't know what to look for or bring their dog in. You should have read the number of people on my post that had no idea about bloat and a lot were pet people. I think tacking during a spay is a no brainer. Better to have it and not need it than to not have it and need it.

 

[JanS]

I think tacking during a spay is a no brainer. Better to have it and not need it than to not have it and need it.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Aaron56]

Yea, I would have it done with this breed. Not sure if its a rural vet or not but honestly general vets often don't see a lot of these sorts of things because people simply don't know what to look for or bring their dog in.

Neither of the Doberman breeders I have had in the past that were also Vets suggested I have this done or ever mentioned them having it done to any of their Dobermans...

And neither of those breeders / Veterinarians were what I would call 'spring chickens' if you get my meaning.

Dr Kuhlmann had been owning, raising and breeding dobermans longer than I had been alive and never mentioned it any of the times I visited with him. None of the 5 separate Dobermans I got from him over the years ever developed it either. Those dogs all eventually passed away but it was never due to bloat.

 

[JanS]

It's your option to not have it done but I don't want other members think it isn't important. IMO it is in the case it does happen.

 

[Rits]

Neither of the Doberman breeders I have had in the past that were also Vets suggested I have this done or ever mentioned them having it done to any of their Dobermans...

And neither of those breeders / Veterinarians were what I would call 'spring chickens' if you get my meaning.

Dr Kuhlmann had been owning, raising and breeding dobermans longer than I had been alive and never mentioned it any of the times I visited with him. None of the 5 separate Dobermans I got from him over the years ever developed it either. Those dogs all eventually passed away but it was never due to bloat.

I'm not sure why you would argue against a preventative LIFE saving and very minimal surgery, possibly leading others astray? If your dog is already under for something such as a spay or obstruction, why not get it done while there? That is great that your experience has been such but lets go with some facts on data! Identification of Genetic Susceptibility Factors Associated with Canine Gastric Dilatation-Volvulus - PMC

Canine gastric dilatation-volvulus (GDV) is a common life-threatening condition occurring primarily in large and giant breeds with a 3.9% to 36.7% lifetime risk.

Without corrective surgery (gastropexy), GDV recurs in up to 80% of affected dogs (median overall survival of 188 days [2]), compared to a recurrence of less than 5% with gastropexy [2,3,4]. Importantly, approximately 44% of GDV patients seeking emergency care are euthanized.

Risk Factors for Canine Bloat - TUFTSBG2003 - VIN

www.vin.com

Canine bloat, or gastric dilatation-volvulus (GDV), is the number-one cause of death for several large and giant breeds. Twenty-five percent of bloat cases are caused by gastric dilation. The stomach fills with gas. The increased pressure compresses both ends of the stomach, preventing the gas from escaping. But most cases--75 percent--are due to gastric volvulus, where the stomach actually twists, crimping and cutting off the inflow and outflow from the stomach. When the stomach gases cannot get out, they expand.