lady Dobie
Well-Known Member
I am trying to find a good flea and tick external treatment for dobies ..i already give the heart worm medicine.. any suggestions with price and quality very welcomed..thank you
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What flea and tick prevention do you use besides heart worm medicine..
- Thread starter lady Dobie
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lady Dobie
Well-Known Member
thank you.. i used Heartgard this year.. i have used Sim parica trio in the past.. but just so expensive and i hate giving all those chemical poisons in one dose.. i will try this Nexquard.. .......
Same here. Now they have Nexgard Plus that covers mosquitoes and fleas/ticks but I've stuck with giving them separately a couple weeks apart. Thankfully we only have to give Heartgard for a few months a year and Nexgard for four or five months.
lady Dobie
Well-Known Member
yes winters here too... and long and extremely cold..yes that is what i plan to do ..give separately.. but i did just remember dobies can have this .. but cannot give to collie....collies cannot have Ivermectin so maybe have to look more for something they can all take..
That's right, I forgot about that.
BG1
Hot Topics Subscriber
Vet recommended Simparica Trio (one tab/mo) and Bonnies been on it for almost two years, no problems noted. Its cheaper by prescription at the vet than online from Amazon.
Thanks @lady Dobie and @JanS for this post. I'd read here and elsewhere some anecdotal reports on medication adverse reactions and did NOT know about ivermectin...
Thanks @lady Dobie and @JanS for this post. I'd read here and elsewhere some anecdotal reports on medication adverse reactions and did NOT know about ivermectin...
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BG1
Hot Topics Subscriber
So, I used Grok AI as a search engine and it came up with this:
"
To provide you with a thorough response, I’ve reviewed available information regarding adverse reactions to Simparica Trio, specifically focusing on Doberman dogs. Simparica Trio is a widely used, FDA-approved oral medication for dogs that combines three active ingredients—sarolaner, moxidectin, and pyrantel—to protect against fleas, ticks, heartworms, roundworms, and hookworms. While it’s generally considered safe and effective for most dogs, some adverse reactions have been reported across breeds, including neurological effects tied to the isoxazoline class (sarolaner), such as tremors, ataxia, and seizures. My task is to identify whether Dobermans, as a specific breed, show unique or heightened susceptibility based on available data up to March 17, 2025.
There is no comprehensive, breed-specific public database solely dedicated to adverse reactions to Simparica Trio in Dobermans from clinical trials or post-market surveillance. However, I can synthesize general reports of adverse reactions to Simparica Trio and consider Doberman-specific factors, such as their known genetic predispositions, to assess potential risks. Dobermans are a breed recognized for occasional neurological sensitivities, including a higher prevalence of conditions like idiopathic epilepsy compared to some other breeds, which could theoretically increase their risk for isoxazoline-related side effects.
General adverse reactions to Simparica Trio, as reported in clinical studies and voluntary post-approval data, include vomiting, diarrhea, lethargy, and, less commonly, neurological symptoms like tremors, ataxia, and seizures. The manufacturer, Zoetis, and the FDA note that these neurological reactions are rare (less than 1 in 10,000 doses) and often linked to dogs with pre-existing neurological conditions or a history of seizures. In field studies involving hundreds of dogs of various breeds, the most frequent side effects were gastrointestinal, with neurological events occurring very rarely. For example, in one study of 410 dogs treated monthly for 11 months, vomiting and diarrhea topped the list, while neurological symptoms were not highlighted as predominant.
Dobermans aren’t explicitly singled out in these broad studies, but their breed characteristics warrant consideration. Some Dobermans carry the MDR1 gene mutation (common in herding breeds like Collies but less studied in Dobermans), which affects drug metabolism and could theoretically amplify sensitivity to medications like moxidectin. However, there’s no direct evidence linking MDR1 prevalence in Dobermans to Simparica Trio reactions. More relevant is their predisposition to epilepsy and other neurological conditions, which aligns with the FDA’s caution to use isoxazoline-class drugs carefully in dogs with seizure histories. Anecdotal reports from pet owners, occasionally shared on forums or social media platforms like X, mention adverse reactions in Dobermans—ranging from mild lethargy to rare seizures—but these lack the rigor of controlled studies and often don’t confirm causality or pre-existing conditions.
Searching X posts and web reports specifically for "Simparica Trio Doberman adverse reactions" as of March 17, 2025, yields limited results. A few owners have reported their Dobermans experiencing vomiting or lethargy after administration, consistent with common side effects across breeds. Rare mentions of tremors or disorientation appear, but without veterinary confirmation or details on the dogs’ health histories, these remain speculative. No large-scale, verified reports or recalls tie Simparica Trio uniquely to Dobermans. The Doberman Pinscher Club of America and similar breed-specific resources don’t flag Simparica Trio as a particular concern, though they advise consulting vets due to the breed’s neurological profile.
Critically, the lack of Doberman-specific data doesn’t mean they’re immune to risks—it could reflect under-reporting or the breed’s smaller population compared to, say, Labradors. The isoxazoline class’s known neurological risks suggest that Dobermans with epilepsy or undiagnosed sensitivities might be more vulnerable, but this is a hypothesis, not a documented trend. Most Dobermans likely tolerate Simparica Trio well, as the drug has protected millions of dogs since its 2020 U.S. launch with a "very rare" adverse event rate.
In summary, adverse reactions to Simparica Trio in Dobermans mirror those in other breeds—primarily vomiting, diarrhea, and lethargy, with rare neurological effects like seizures possible, especially in predisposed individuals. No evidence suggests Dobermans are uniquely susceptible beyond their potential for neurological conditions, which owners should discuss with a vet. If your Doberman is on Simparica Trio, monitor for any unusual behavior, particularly within 24-48 hours of dosing, and report concerns to your veterinarian immediately. For a definitive answer tailored to your dog, a vet’s review of its health history is essential—general data only takes us so far."
"
To provide you with a thorough response, I’ve reviewed available information regarding adverse reactions to Simparica Trio, specifically focusing on Doberman dogs. Simparica Trio is a widely used, FDA-approved oral medication for dogs that combines three active ingredients—sarolaner, moxidectin, and pyrantel—to protect against fleas, ticks, heartworms, roundworms, and hookworms. While it’s generally considered safe and effective for most dogs, some adverse reactions have been reported across breeds, including neurological effects tied to the isoxazoline class (sarolaner), such as tremors, ataxia, and seizures. My task is to identify whether Dobermans, as a specific breed, show unique or heightened susceptibility based on available data up to March 17, 2025.
There is no comprehensive, breed-specific public database solely dedicated to adverse reactions to Simparica Trio in Dobermans from clinical trials or post-market surveillance. However, I can synthesize general reports of adverse reactions to Simparica Trio and consider Doberman-specific factors, such as their known genetic predispositions, to assess potential risks. Dobermans are a breed recognized for occasional neurological sensitivities, including a higher prevalence of conditions like idiopathic epilepsy compared to some other breeds, which could theoretically increase their risk for isoxazoline-related side effects.
General adverse reactions to Simparica Trio, as reported in clinical studies and voluntary post-approval data, include vomiting, diarrhea, lethargy, and, less commonly, neurological symptoms like tremors, ataxia, and seizures. The manufacturer, Zoetis, and the FDA note that these neurological reactions are rare (less than 1 in 10,000 doses) and often linked to dogs with pre-existing neurological conditions or a history of seizures. In field studies involving hundreds of dogs of various breeds, the most frequent side effects were gastrointestinal, with neurological events occurring very rarely. For example, in one study of 410 dogs treated monthly for 11 months, vomiting and diarrhea topped the list, while neurological symptoms were not highlighted as predominant.
Dobermans aren’t explicitly singled out in these broad studies, but their breed characteristics warrant consideration. Some Dobermans carry the MDR1 gene mutation (common in herding breeds like Collies but less studied in Dobermans), which affects drug metabolism and could theoretically amplify sensitivity to medications like moxidectin. However, there’s no direct evidence linking MDR1 prevalence in Dobermans to Simparica Trio reactions. More relevant is their predisposition to epilepsy and other neurological conditions, which aligns with the FDA’s caution to use isoxazoline-class drugs carefully in dogs with seizure histories. Anecdotal reports from pet owners, occasionally shared on forums or social media platforms like X, mention adverse reactions in Dobermans—ranging from mild lethargy to rare seizures—but these lack the rigor of controlled studies and often don’t confirm causality or pre-existing conditions.
Searching X posts and web reports specifically for "Simparica Trio Doberman adverse reactions" as of March 17, 2025, yields limited results. A few owners have reported their Dobermans experiencing vomiting or lethargy after administration, consistent with common side effects across breeds. Rare mentions of tremors or disorientation appear, but without veterinary confirmation or details on the dogs’ health histories, these remain speculative. No large-scale, verified reports or recalls tie Simparica Trio uniquely to Dobermans. The Doberman Pinscher Club of America and similar breed-specific resources don’t flag Simparica Trio as a particular concern, though they advise consulting vets due to the breed’s neurological profile.
Critically, the lack of Doberman-specific data doesn’t mean they’re immune to risks—it could reflect under-reporting or the breed’s smaller population compared to, say, Labradors. The isoxazoline class’s known neurological risks suggest that Dobermans with epilepsy or undiagnosed sensitivities might be more vulnerable, but this is a hypothesis, not a documented trend. Most Dobermans likely tolerate Simparica Trio well, as the drug has protected millions of dogs since its 2020 U.S. launch with a "very rare" adverse event rate.
In summary, adverse reactions to Simparica Trio in Dobermans mirror those in other breeds—primarily vomiting, diarrhea, and lethargy, with rare neurological effects like seizures possible, especially in predisposed individuals. No evidence suggests Dobermans are uniquely susceptible beyond their potential for neurological conditions, which owners should discuss with a vet. If your Doberman is on Simparica Trio, monitor for any unusual behavior, particularly within 24-48 hours of dosing, and report concerns to your veterinarian immediately. For a definitive answer tailored to your dog, a vet’s review of its health history is essential—general data only takes us so far."
BG1
Hot Topics Subscriber
Then I asked Grok if Embark tests for MDR1:
"
Yes, the Embark health test does report on the MDR1 gene mutation in Doberman dogs. Embark's comprehensive dog DNA tests, including their health-focused options like the Breed + Health Kit and the test designed for breeders, screen for over 270 genetic health conditions, one of which is Multidrug Resistance 1 (MDR1) drug sensitivity. This mutation in the ABCB1 gene affects a dog’s ability to process certain medications, potentially leading to neurological toxicity from drugs like ivermectin or loperamide.
While MDR1 is most commonly associated with herding breeds like Collies and Australian Shepherds, Embark tests all dogs for this mutation regardless of breed, as it can appear in mixed breeds or less commonly affected purebreds like Dobermans. The Doberman Diversity Project, which partners with Embark, has identified low frequencies of MDR1 in their cohort of over 1,700 Dobermans, confirming that it’s present, though rare, in the breed. When you test a Doberman with Embark, the results will indicate whether your dog is clear (two normal copies), a carrier (one mutated copy), or affected (two mutated copies) for MDR1, along with actionable health implications.
So, if you use an Embark test for your Doberman, you’ll get a clear report on its MDR1 status, typically accessible in your online results dashboard, alongside other breed-relevant conditions like Dilated Cardiomyopathy (DCM1/PDK4) and Degenerative Myelopathy (DM). This makes it a reliable tool for understanding your dog’s potential drug sensitivities."
"
Yes, the Embark health test does report on the MDR1 gene mutation in Doberman dogs. Embark's comprehensive dog DNA tests, including their health-focused options like the Breed + Health Kit and the test designed for breeders, screen for over 270 genetic health conditions, one of which is Multidrug Resistance 1 (MDR1) drug sensitivity. This mutation in the ABCB1 gene affects a dog’s ability to process certain medications, potentially leading to neurological toxicity from drugs like ivermectin or loperamide.
While MDR1 is most commonly associated with herding breeds like Collies and Australian Shepherds, Embark tests all dogs for this mutation regardless of breed, as it can appear in mixed breeds or less commonly affected purebreds like Dobermans. The Doberman Diversity Project, which partners with Embark, has identified low frequencies of MDR1 in their cohort of over 1,700 Dobermans, confirming that it’s present, though rare, in the breed. When you test a Doberman with Embark, the results will indicate whether your dog is clear (two normal copies), a carrier (one mutated copy), or affected (two mutated copies) for MDR1, along with actionable health implications.
So, if you use an Embark test for your Doberman, you’ll get a clear report on its MDR1 status, typically accessible in your online results dashboard, alongside other breed-relevant conditions like Dilated Cardiomyopathy (DCM1/PDK4) and Degenerative Myelopathy (DM). This makes it a reliable tool for understanding your dog’s potential drug sensitivities."
lady Dobie
Well-Known Member
Be sure to do a breed specific test for health. Haven't looked at their site for a while so not sure what the choices look like anymore, but I almost ordered the wrong one 5 years ago because I didn't want the "breeders test" since I wasn't planning to breed. But it is (was) what they called the test with the breed specific information plus everything else and they note if there is anything you need to share with your vet.
It can be a bit confusing for sure. Now I think there's the purebred option or the breeder option, which is the same test. I got the breeders one since it was a bit less and they don't pursue whether you are going to breed or not.
The other ones are just to determine the breed if you don't know.
That's what I got.
BG1
Hot Topics Subscriber
Yes there is a box to select "purebred" and "breed" so I expect VWD, DCM, and the gene associated with ivermectin sensitivity among others. I understand I may get a mention of relatives that have been tested, and contact info. Bonnie is a purebred but not well bred byb, of claimed NA/Euro mix,
and spayed so pedigree info is not needed, but if some part might be captured I could go to dobequest to look for longevity if recorded in her upline.
Thats good for planning ahead for vet bills...
I'll pass results along to Cornell, UofMn
and UC Davis? For their database collection and long term studies underway on dobes. A way to "pay it forward" a bit for all the good help here and elsewhere.
Any feedback on that from others who did same? I'll have to look up contact info but if anyone has it handy and can share I'd be grateful.
BG1
Hot Topics Subscriber
You're welcome! I use Grok3 from within the X app;
as a search engine, basically and
its trained and collates what it has been fed from data online, like X posts, public web-forums like this and others, scientific papers, dog medical info...
Its far from perfect as its subject to the same GIGO effect as in the olden days...some useful stuff like youtube comments are unavailable as Teh Goolag has its own AI, and segments off youtube by API from other competing AIs.
Grok collates and explains in a natural language style thats accessible.
You can get it for free as a standalone app on ipnone or PC which is reputedly faster updated, as it improves and is fed more data.
BG1
Hot Topics Subscriber
No but I will, thanks for the tip.
Whats the one in Germany? Any extra use in that? I'm guessing its more EU dog data so perhaps less useful to me with what looks like mostly NA showline characteristics in Bonnie, slender long neck, almost snipey head, soft temperament. But a lonnng back, not square. I joke and tell people who ask that she is a mutant weiner dog with lonnng legs...
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