neverending soft poop

[dobebug]

Well, then I really got taken! I looked it up and I spent $159.00 (2005) for a Giardia test! At a VCA animal hospital. I'm sure it wasn't a snap test though.

Holy crud MyBuddy...that's like the price of an entire senior blood panel plus Giardia. The VCA clinics are generally among the better of the the chain clinics and unlike some of the others don't seem to spend a lot of time ripping people off but even to do a send out to IDEXX or Antech for a specific Giardia test that's really high.

Get a quote next time you need tests and ask how much each test is and who is going to be running the tests. There's some stuff we send out because the big labs are less expensive--but that ain't the case with Giardia--naturally I have no idea how much our place charges but it's definitely not $159.

Sorry about that.

---------- Post added at 06:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:16 PM ----------

THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A SEPARATE POST--DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED!!!!!

i looked at the pro plan, just because i heard lots of dobe's doing very well on it, but it isn't very cheap either LOL
so here i'm poor me and don't know what to do LMAo

---------- Post added at 03:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:03 PM ----------

oy oy oy, desicions desicions, LOL
i have no idea what to do, i really might start with the pro plan now, looked at it and might go with sensitive stomache and skin first and see how they do on it, get some extra probiotics and give the other suppliments and see ,what happens.if it gets btter, i might switch to the salmon one later on. gezzzzz its so hard and my head is spinning from all the into food checking

Apollo--wait a minute! Remember I said that you might want to try out the less is more theory since you've been having problems with food and sloppy stools practically from the get go.

Pick a food--pick a mid range NOT a high end grain free food. He's not doing so well on the high end stuff. Don't start adding a whole lot of suppliments to it. Do changes one item at a time. Change the food--see how he does.

I feed ProPlan--I feed the Sensitive Skin and Stomach--that's what my fawn dog has been on since he was weaned. It's not horribly expensive but you'd probably have a heart attack if I suggested the food the other dog is on--but he does very well on it and ProPlan changed their formula on the Chicken and Rice he used to get so I switched him to another food. I keep feeding the Salmon and Rice to the fawn dog mostly because he's got a decent coat at nearly four and I actually don't want to rock that boat. I'm not feeding the Selects--it's somewhat more expensive for smaller bags and it didn't seem to me to be worth the extra price.

I have also fed Eukanuba in the past--just plain old Eukanuba maintenance for the adults. They did fine on that too.

You've got a relatively young dog--a lot of the younger dogs don't do well on high end food. A very good internist says that a lot of the problems he sees (he's a specialist in a big specialty clinic) in young dogs have more to do with owners trying to do too well for the dog. Young dogs often can't deal with some of the high end stuff because thier digestive system is still immature. A lot of breeders feed ProPlan and Eukanuba to puppies and something entirely different to adult dogs.

At least give one of the more ordinary dry foods a try--sounds like it can't be worse than what you have going one now.

And about corn--corn is NOT a bad thing in the diet of a dog--cooked (and it is) it is digestible--relax about the corn issue.

Also, if you are feeding any sort of canned dog food you might try not doing that. There are an incredible number of dogs that ALWAYS have soft stools if there is any wet food in their diet at all.

I don't know what all suppliments you are feeding but if you are feeding fish oil and more than 2,000 mg per day cut that back. If you are feeding glucosamine I can tell you that for a lot of dogs (and people) glucosamine has to be carefully adjusted or it will give them diarrhea. Ummmm, I can't offhand think of other things but you really need to drop back to basics. Pick a food that is mid range--feed it, don't add stuff to it except maybe a spoonful of yogurt or cottage cheese in each meal.

The 1-1/2 cups of TOTW that you are feeding per meal doesn't sound like too much to me either.

And finally if you are giving treats for training you might eliminate them for a bit--use whatever kibble you are going to try as a treat instead.

Good luck....

 

[willi_pup]

Even though I don't have my puppy yet I have been torturing myself with this decision, I can't imagine how frustrating it is when Apollo isn't doing so great.
I had a realization yesterday when I was going through the dogs foods at the local store... I have never read labels so intently for myself. I eat McDonalds, Taco Bell, mac and cheese etc. and I wont get food for my dogs that have half the awful things in them that my own food has. Has anyone else noticed that, or am I the only one who eats terrible terrible food?
Good luck, my dogs love Wellness, but they are small and I don't need to buy very big bags so it doesn't add up to as much as it would with a doberman obviously. My breeder also said she had tried TOTW, Wellness, Innova and Blue Buffalo and had no success and finally switched her dogs over to Pro Plan.

 

[Apollo]

thanks so much everyone. i think i'll try the pro plan sensitve skin and stomach, try to switch slow, still have enough TOTW left, so i can slowly switch.

DB i do not feed canned food at all, so i know that ins't it, no glucosamin.
he gets fishoil, vit C, E, B50 and Zink
i might cut back on the fishoil for a bit and see if that helps.

 

[dobebug]

thanks so much everyone. i think i'll try the pro plan sensitve skin and stomach, try to switch slow, still have enough TOTW left, so i can slowly switch.

DB i do not feed canned food at all, so i know that ins't it, no glucosamin.
he gets fishoil, vit C, E, B50 and Zink
i might cut back on the fishoil for a bit and see if that helps.

Apollo,

For now try cutting out the vitamin C too--that's another one that will cause soft stools and/or diarrhea if there is too much in the diet. Dogs actually don't need to be supplemented for vitamin C--they make their own in quantities greater than you would ever be likely to feed them. Since E is oil based (usually anyway--gel caps?) For every 2,000 mg of fish oil you should be feeding about 400 iu or less of Vitamin E. And you might talk to your vet about how much zinc he is getting. Most of the metallic supplements (like zinc) can also contribute to soft stools. Is he on that for his skin and coat?

 

[Apollo]

yes all the suppliments he gets is for his coat and skin
i might cut back on all of them and just give him twice a day a fishoil one and see if that makes a difference.

 

[GuNNeR The Great]

i say trial and error. pick one that you're conformable with health/price wise. then go for it. if it don't work within a week then switch to the second on the list. keep going down the list of approve dog food that you choose. there is something out there that will work. Just got to find it. all dogs are different so you can take advise about food but it may not be the same results for you. I would look really hard into raw feeding. if there is an asian market then you will have hope. chicken back is very cheap and chicken quarters is cheap at walmart. under $1 per pound. local bucher shop will have scraps and they usually grind them all up and make like a hamburger patty and sell them very cheap for feeding to dogs. talk to some local meat stores.

paris started raw and within 3 days her poop is solid. first 3 days was loose but never runny. and her poop the first couple of days really stink. i can smell it when she poops. but since then no smell and very solid.

Good luck tina..you will find it...just takes time to find the right one.

 

[JanS]

i remember we talked about that before, what exactly is probiotics?

where i can get them and what kind ??? name would be good

Here is the thread on it, with the info on which type I give.
Probiotic dosage? - Doberman Chat Forum

I understand it does make a big difference in which type you buy, depending on concentration and exactly what's in it, and they said some of the cheaper ones have dairy products in it, which can upset the stomach by itself. I get the stuff that is lactose free for that reason.

I get Della's from a health food store and it's refrigerated since it's pretty potent.

Hang in there Tina. Apollo is still young, and in many cases things like that clear up with adulthood. That was definitely the case with Boris.

 

[Apollo]

i say trial and error. pick one that you're conformable with health/price wise. then go for it. if it don't work within a week then switch to the second on the list. keep going down the list of approve dog food that you choose. there is something out there that will work. Just got to find it. all dogs are different so you can take advise about food but it may not be the same results for you. I would look really hard into raw feeding. if there is an asian market then you will have hope. chicken back is very cheap and chicken quarters is cheap at walmart. under $1 per pound. local bucher shop will have scraps and they usually grind them all up and make like a hamburger patty and sell them very cheap for feeding to dogs. talk to some local meat stores.

paris started raw and within 3 days her poop is solid. first 3 days was loose but never runny. and her poop the first couple of days really stink. i can smell it when she poops. but since then no smell and very solid.




Good luck tina..you will find it...just takes time to find the right one.

David, i been looking around here for cheaper meat, but in Bakersfield, you don't get that lucky,like you did, so raw isn't a possibility for us, pricewise.


thanks Jan for the link, going to check it and put it on the list

 

[JanS]

In thinking about it Tina, I think I'd honestly stick with the TOTW and try those different add-ins to see if they help before going on the dog food merry-go-round. I know switching foods and trying to find one that will work is frustrating at best, so you might just be able to remedy it without having to go through that.

 

[BreesMom]

In thinking about it Tina, I think I'd honestly stick with the TOTW and try those different add-ins to see if they help before going on the dog food merry-go-round. I know switching foods and trying to find one that will work is frustrating at best, so you might just be able to remedy it without having to go through that.

I think Jan is right Tina, before changing food I would cut back on the fish oil, and I would check the bottle as the fish oil, flaxseed, barage oil combo I get at walmart already has vit E in it, so you could cut out the vit E and vit C and add the probiotic. He looks great and has been doing so well on the TOTW except for the loose stool, you could end up in a bigger mess changing foods.

 

[MeadowCat]

I'm with Jan and BreesMom. If it were me, I'd actually stop all the supplements, try absolutely NOTHING but the dry food for a while, and see if there's any improvement. With so many variables in his diet it's impossible to know if it's the food that doesn't agree with him.

Personally, I think if dogs are eating a good diet they don't need all those supplements. Shanoa has an absolutely incredible coat and is in great condition. She doesn't get any supplements (except the oat bran for digestion). I do probiotics if she gets into something and gets an upset stomach. Otherwise, nothing but kibble, and only the treats that we know don't make her sick (which are almost none!). And I have to say, I'm still anti-corn in dog diets, but I know some disagree.

MeadowCat

 

[Apollo]

i'll cut back all the suppliments for now and see if that helps and get the probiotics for him and see if that makes a diffrence. gezzzz its really hard, you think you do the best for them and then you maybe didn't, oh well let s see how its goes. i wont buy the food not before the first anyways, so that gives me two and half weeks to see, if the suppliments are the problem. he don't get treats, because i know, he gets very runny poop from them, so if i got to training, mostly i take turkey hotdogs with me or on our morning walks i just have some kibbles with me, but those are just working in the morning before he ate breakfast LOL

 

[MeadowCat]

I think that sounds like a great course of action. You might want to even cut out the hot dogs until you can tell if it's the food or not. I know hot dogs made Shanoa have loose stools. Along with almost every other treat in the world

 

[Apollo]

since we only have training tuesday night, i think its ok
but Apollo dosent good on regular treats ,like Shanoa
maybe try just to take kibbles and hope he still work for those LOL

 

[MeadowCat]

I *really* feel for you and know what you are going through. We must have gone through at least 5 different dog foods over months and months, trying to figure out what she could tolerate and what she couldn't. Once we finally got her on Orijen she did great. Now we're transitioning to the adult formula from the puppy formula, and thankfully no issues with that. But if we try a new treat, or even if she gets over-excited at the dog park, she'll have really loose stool or diarrhea. She pretty much can't eat anything except her food. The only treats she can have are the hard, Mother Hubbard dog treats. For training we use her kibble (after not feeding her breakfast), and I will occasionally throw in a piece of boiled chicken, but not too many. It's just a nightmare.

I know you will find the right combo for Apollo. It's just going to take time and patience. You'll never be as excited as the first week of normal stools!

MC

 

[Apollo]

day one, no supplimnets at all, just their kibbles soaked in a bit of water, so far so goo, had to wait for awhile before he went, but the first time was ok, but want say it changed, maybe just luck, hehehe, so i will keep a eye on it and see, what happens

 

[Gunnar]

Hey Tina,
We feed Natural Balance Sweet Potato Fish with a small amount of canned Liver from the same manufacturer and have wonderful results with Gunnar. We also supplement with Total-Zymes ( Home page )

This is a new product from Natural Balance:
NEW! Natural Balance® L.I.D. Limited Ingredient Diets® Sweet Potato & Chicken Formula for Dogs. It is grain free and available at Petco.

James

 

[lady Dobie]

I think Jan is right Tina, before changing food I would cut back on the fish oil, and I would check the bottle as the fish oil, flaxseed, barage oil combo I get at walmart already has vit E in it, so you could cut out the vit E and vit C and add the probiotic. He looks great and has been doing so well on the TOTW except for the loose stool, you could end up in a bigger mess changing foods.

i had to cut my collie out of taking fish oil for now...that made all the difference in ending his loose stools.... so hopefully when his stomach and digestive system matures i can add the supplement again... great thread of info here... i was really impressed with all the knowledge and experiences you have all gone through...

 

[immortaldobes]

just a thought.........my rescue boy chance has the same problem....vet said to bring in a stool sample to test for some sort of bacteria. not worms....but something else.I cant recall the name of it...but dogs get it from drinking run off water. might want to see if your vet checked for it....hmmmm wish I could recall the name lol!
__________________

that's funny- I was goint to talk about that. I decided to run a stool sample on the girls since I am tired of getting up 50 times a night to let them out. I was expecting it to come back with nothing but to my surprise it came back with giardia!!! I think that is probably what your vet was talking about as well. I was floored!! luckily the treatments are cheap and easy (oral liquid or powder once daily for 3 - 5 days). tom. will be day 3. I feel sleep coming!!!

 

[Patwit]

Not to confuse you more, Tina, but TOTW wasn't working for Diesel's tummy,.... he's a little over a year old. We went back to what he was raised on....Nature's Variety Prairie Chicken, and he's been fine. But it's not in PetSmart or Petco, but local pet supply stores.
It's not too expensive (I'm unemployed here!) $40 something for a 30 lb bag.