UDC Conformation
- Thread starter remy
- Start date
UDC is more working lines but you see all kinds there; especially for conformation and OB. Remy would probably do well since he isn't one of the over refined, fragile looking dogs.
remy
Active Member
That’s what I was wondering, I wasn’t sure if he would fit in at that show. When I looked at some pictures from past events I saw a mix of dogs. Some who look more like what you’d see at an AKC show and some who probably wouldn’t do well there, but winning at UDC.
These are the judges:
Ms. Minna-Liisa Koltes, AKC 22597, Conformation Show #1
Ms. Maureen Day, AKC 29991, Conformation Show #2
Ms. Dawn L. Gabig, AKC 103897, Conformation Show #3
Getting any sort of placement there is not super important to me, but I don’t want to go if he isn’t the right type of dog for it lol.
They judge by the very same standard. You are also required to take an age appropriate Temperament Test. I'll see if I can copy an announcement I saw on FB with an explain how it works. The nice thing is, I think it's more informal, most of them don't show outside UDC.
Found it: From Leslie Carpenter:
The United Doberman Club Conformation Championship for Dobermans
The mission of the United Doberman Club is to preserve and protect the Doberman Pinscher and its heritage as a working dog, doing everything possible to perfect its natural qualities. One of the strategies for fulfilling this mission is to conduct events that promote the Doberman as a working breed, and to record and issue titles. The UDC recognizes outstanding Dobermans by awarding the UDC Conformation Championship to worthy individuals.
The UDC Conformation Championship is a notable three-phase accomplishment. While any AKC or FCI registered Doberman may enter a UDC temperament test and conformation show, to finalize the requirements for a UDC Conformation Champion a dog must be UDC registered (have a scorebook), earn three Challenge Certificates (CCs) under at least two different judges, pass the adult UDC temperament test, and earn a performance title such as an IGP BH-VT or AKC CD. The owner does NOT have to be a member of the UDC to register the dog and obtain a scorebook, and all valid wins and titles will be used to determine the dog’s eligibility for a UDC Championship at the time the dog is registered.
Because the temperament test is a requirement for the UDC conformation championship, each UDC sanctioned conformation event must offer an official temperament test prior to the start of the conformation show(s) so that every dog entered has a chance to take the temperament test appropriate for their age and class entered. There is only one temperament test offered per conformation event, regardless of the number of shows featured at a single UDC sanctioned conformation event.
If a dog fails the temperament test required to enter, the dog and handler may still show in the conformation show(s), earn a class placing and awards, and receive a conformation rating and critique from the judge, but the judge cannot award a CC, and the dog is not eligible for a “Best” award in the show.
Old North State Working Dobermans is a member club of the UDC, and our upcoming conformation “Carolina Summer Shows” cluster coming June 8-9, 2024, features a UDC temperament test and three conformation shows. It is an opportunity for Doberman lovers to gather and learn about the Doberman and how we can work together to preserve the characteristics of our breed that we treasure. We are beginner/novice friendly!
For details about the shows, the rules, and entries, please visit our website.
Maybe you are not required to take the TT, but it would be a fun thing to do plus you learn so much about your dog! I'd love it if they had an event close to me! So jealous!!!
The United Doberman Club Conformation Championship for Dobermans
The mission of the United Doberman Club is to preserve and protect the Doberman Pinscher and its heritage as a working dog, doing everything possible to perfect its natural qualities. One of the strategies for fulfilling this mission is to conduct events that promote the Doberman as a working breed, and to record and issue titles. The UDC recognizes outstanding Dobermans by awarding the UDC Conformation Championship to worthy individuals.
The UDC Conformation Championship is a notable three-phase accomplishment. While any AKC or FCI registered Doberman may enter a UDC temperament test and conformation show, to finalize the requirements for a UDC Conformation Champion a dog must be UDC registered (have a scorebook), earn three Challenge Certificates (CCs) under at least two different judges, pass the adult UDC temperament test, and earn a performance title such as an IGP BH-VT or AKC CD. The owner does NOT have to be a member of the UDC to register the dog and obtain a scorebook, and all valid wins and titles will be used to determine the dog’s eligibility for a UDC Championship at the time the dog is registered.
Because the temperament test is a requirement for the UDC conformation championship, each UDC sanctioned conformation event must offer an official temperament test prior to the start of the conformation show(s) so that every dog entered has a chance to take the temperament test appropriate for their age and class entered. There is only one temperament test offered per conformation event, regardless of the number of shows featured at a single UDC sanctioned conformation event.
If a dog fails the temperament test required to enter, the dog and handler may still show in the conformation show(s), earn a class placing and awards, and receive a conformation rating and critique from the judge, but the judge cannot award a CC, and the dog is not eligible for a “Best” award in the show.
Old North State Working Dobermans is a member club of the UDC, and our upcoming conformation “Carolina Summer Shows” cluster coming June 8-9, 2024, features a UDC temperament test and three conformation shows. It is an opportunity for Doberman lovers to gather and learn about the Doberman and how we can work together to preserve the characteristics of our breed that we treasure. We are beginner/novice friendly!
For details about the shows, the rules, and entries, please visit our website.
Maybe you are not required to take the TT, but it would be a fun thing to do plus you learn so much about your dog! I'd love it if they had an event close to me! So jealous!!!
remy
Active Member
I was reading a little about the temperament testing. He’d have to take the YTT (12-24 months old). I couldn’t find much on the actual test itself, but from what I did read I think he’ll have no issue passing. It seems like a shorter version of the WAE? I thought it was kind of interesting the temperament test is required to be taken before showing, but it’s not required to be passed. Although they won’t award certain things to dogs who fail the TT.
Maybe we’ll just go and give it a try lol. He’s showing with a handler in July, so I was looking to see if there are any opportunities semi-locally before then to get him some more experience.
Rits
Hot Topics Subscriber
Yes, no offense some of the quality of dogs I've seen is quite questionable. I'm guessing it is a lot like UKC where yes, they judge by the same standard but the quality isn't there yet. I have seen some nicer dogs. I've also seen some not nice dogs finish in AKC and wonder wth the judge is thinking. Either way, it would be great for practice! You know I've raved about Remy enough but he should have no problems showing in UDC should the judge know the standard...
Because UDC focus is all about preserving the working doberman, but want to encourage correct conformation - goals for the "total Doberman". If a dog passed the TT but was grossly out of standard, it would not fly. Likewise, a beautiful dog within standard that failed the TT would not be eligible for UDC CH, but still could win or place in a class. This could give that owner information to work on the TT - see if the dogs inherent reactions can be adjusted and/or what to look for in a mate to offset those traits if your breeding.
Because these dogs are mostly of Euro heritage and not leaning toward picture perfect or trends of AKC showlines. Most members in UDC are into sports and will choose a good proven working line because looks are secondary to action. I am seeing more show/sport dogs coming into to the club. Hopefully the crossovers will help both sides out! UDC is about dogs who can work but to be a CH they insist the working Dobe to also fit the standard. A pretty dog that fails the TT also doesn't fit into their ideal working Doberman description so UDC CH title remains special by being proven in both looks and temperament. Ripley could probably get a USC CH in a snap!
@remy I hope you go, I know you'll learn a lot and it should be a fun group to get to know!
Rits
Hot Topics Subscriber
This is what I meant by my "quality of dogs that I've seen is questionable" comment. Questionable as in, not fitting the standard in more than just a few deviations
But its like UKC where, if that is the best dog of the day, it will win. Same goes with AKC too but fortunately there is more quality there so the lesser quality don't typically make it out of the classes. Some judges will even with hold ribbons, more really should. Its not a judging match against each other, its what dog fits the standard the closest with the least amount of faults or deviations. Your dog is competing against the standard. Too many faults and you have a dog deviating from the standard where it shouldn't even win.I know the UDC members focus on work, despite the UDC pushing for the total doberman. I don't completely agree that euro heritage has anything to do with it when their standard is near identical (or should be). Rather, it appears the issue is is the lack of care for the standard and too much focus on what makes a fun sport dog that wins. This obviously applies vice versa but I find it interesting how it seems easier for some of these "showline" dobermans (not all) to come over and work vs a working dog come over and show (pretty much never see but I do know of the few). When why we can't have a vision for both working dogs that also are nice to look at! Nothing hurts me more than to see a working doberman with a straight as a board front or straight rear and watching them scale the A frame or jump the high jump. It just hurts to see. I guess if UDC cracked down on the judging harder, no dogs would finish!
I hope if those that show in AKC come over we'll see less of a divide. I applaud the idea though and requirements laid out, it is a good start to getting there: "pretty to standard dobermans that can work and working dobermans that are bred to standard and are pretty" to where there is NO difference and we have the same dog through and through. Not arguing, and I realize UDC is trying, just fleshing out some thoughts I've had over the years.
@remy is this the show? ONSWD_PremiumListFINAL_20240426.pdf
Why does that hurt? For the most part these are extremely sound dogs! The look of most working dogs is the look they've had for years and years, only breeding what works, not following judging trends. Only in the last 20 years has this issue of bigger fronts come up. And maybe 5 - 10% of show pedigrees has a dog with sport titles. Until those dogs are jumping 39" with a 4 ib dumbbell I can't agree that the latest trends are the best way to go. I like a good looking dog as much as the next person, I'm floored by the beauty of some of these dogs. But if it costs the breed their original function then it's meaningless. It's why I DO want you and others to get out and prove that there are lines of show dogs that can work. They've already proven for 5 generations that they gorgeous - someone needs to convince working line breeders that they can infuse more "pretty" without losing the drive, bite and nerve. I'm definitely excited to see you and a few others try out bite sports and push that ceiling. Just like show folks don't want to lower their standards to a lesser dog, working dog breeders don't want to lower their standards to a dog with 5 generations of no physically challenging titles from field work. It's a stalemate. You won't see working lines in the show ring because even if they were 100% to standard, they would not be pinned because they aren't eye-catching. But your show dogs have a chance at IGP because opinion doesn't enter the picture. Your dog does the work or not. No opinions if the head planes are not perfectly parallel or the shoulder needs 2° more slope.
100% agree! We're not arguing, I love everything about us defending our love of the dog and what we personally think is most important. It's what makes the world go 'round.
@remy thanks for putting up with our banter on your thread. I'm so excited for you and Remy to go to a UDC show. I love y'alls show dogs and cheer everyone on no matter what they choose to do with their Dobermans. I wish like crazy I lived somewhere that I could do more!
Rits
Hot Topics Subscriber
I'm not talking trends, I'm talking about breeding to the standard
I don't know why because you show means you trend follow? Just because a few follow trends doesn't mean everyone does and because a few judges point at them means all judges do. Pigeon chests (the problem you and I don't like) are incorrect just as much as straight fronts are. Correct fronts doesn't mean huge chests.Because structure is incredibly important for a sound dog. Dogs carry 60-70% of their weight on their front end. Straight fronts are designed for running, not agility and jumping. The front is not only responsible for carrying weight but also absorbs almost all the impact. As you know dogs have no collar bones and the shoulder is only held on by muscle and ligaments. Slamming all of their weight into their front ends when they land and turn, if not built correctly, is more susceptible to injury. A straighter front also equals a bad neck set. So when these dogs are hitting that sleeve... Then your rear angulation is important for jumping and turning again. Straight rears are prone to ccl tears. Good rear angulation gives you good ground movement and ground cover.
Can they do they work not bred to standard? Sure ... but why. Why are we disregarding the standard almost completely. Why even have breeds then if no standard
I know a lot of show people are in full support of their puppy homes taking dogs and doing sport with them. The reason a lot of breeders don't themselves is because it's expensive and time consuming...which showing is also
incredibly hard to do both effectively. Now try to do all of that on multiple dogs!! A lot of the people you see doing both either have big pocketbooks where they can send off their dogs for others to train and show plus pay all these training fees, entry fees, gas, hotel, food... or they are young, single, no children and have a lot of time and no other responsibilities. So say you have all of that? Hope you are lucky to have a good club nearby and one that welcomes dobermans and knows how to work Dobermans. The problem goes a lot farther than "show people don't care about keeping the working ability" because that's not true. For some? Sure.Thanks. It's not for a lack of want. It's expensive... I'm lucky I have a club nearish that does know other breeds but we go to club about twice a month, more as we are able, due to finances and time (there's that issue I mentioned). Fortunately, it gives us just enough to chew on to then go work on it at home and come back to get some more info and see how we are doing. Ripley seems to have what it takes to get an IGP1 and for sure a BH but I fear we are short on time. Trendy is even better. Her sire has no sport titles. Ripley's parents didn't either. The workability is still there. Ill have to focus only on IGP with her if I want her to go far. I'm not sure because I love so many other sports too to give them up.
FrauDoberman
New Member
Hi ya'll, member of the Old North State Working Doberman club here. We welcome all to this show! Yes, UDC conformation shows do judge to the AKC (DPCA) standard. However, a UDC champion is not about how many other dobermans they have beaten (the AKC point schedule is ridiculous). They have to pass the temperament test, get an Excellent rating under 3 separate approved judges and have a performance title. An Excellent rating says this dog fits the standard, but not necessarily be the ultra elegant style you see winning at the big AKC shows. You will also see all natural ears and tails at these shows. A UDC champion is closer to a DPCA ROM in that they have been proven in temperament, conformation and performance. Further, only dogs that pass the TT and get E ratings are able to move on to Winners or the BOB class. So if the quality of dogs at a show is low, there could be NO BOB awarded. Quite a bit different than AKC!
@remy the Youth TT differs only from the Adult in that there is no gun shot.
@remy the Youth TT differs only from the Adult in that there is no gun shot.
remy
Active Member
Thank you for all of the information!
Rits
Hot Topics Subscriber
@FrauDoberman appreciate the detailed info! I do like that the UDC requires all 3 and is striving for the total doberman. My girl has all of her other aspects of the ROM besides her CH and is one major away from completion.
Please do stick around and share your dobes and the UDC with us!
Please do stick around and share your dobes and the UDC with us!
BG1
Hot Topics Subscriber
+1, hoping for more info.
AKC seems a bit out of touch to me, for breed standards that emphasize fashion vs something that supports a well balanced dog, with working capability AND temperament.
But the explanation of expense in time and money helps explain why.
I really appreciate the measured debate and good natured explanations here, with respect for others input.
AKC seems a bit out of touch to me, for breed standards that emphasize fashion vs something that supports a well balanced dog, with working capability AND temperament.
But the explanation of expense in time and money helps explain why.
I really appreciate the measured debate and good natured explanations here, with respect for others input.
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Awesome, he'll do great!
Totally OT but last night I was dreaming I was at the UDC nationals with both dogs and I got lost in the hotel when I realized I forgot to get the dogs entered. LOL It had to be this thread that made something like that come up in my dreams.
FrauDoberman
New Member
I think we need to look to the parent breed club (DPCA) to support the well balanced dog. I do think they have the right idea with awarding the ROM for dogs that have shown temperament, conformation and performance. But AKC shows are difficult. especially in the Doberman ring with the high number of pro handlers who are expert at show casing an entry's strengths, while downplaying any faults. This is why I like the UDC shows, you will know WHY your dog did or didn't achieve the Excellent rating with the critique. And if your dog goes Winners or even Best of Breed we offer nice trophies and Rosettes
Typically owners are handling their own dogs at UDC shows, so more of a level playing field as well!
Rits
Hot Topics Subscriber
The DPCA also encourages and rewards that. The ROM (Register of Merit) is a title awarded to dogs who have their CH, a working title, and passed the WAE (doberman temperament test). ROM dogs are then placed on the DPCA website, sent their title certificate in the mail, acknowledged in the DPCA yearly review magazine, and acknowledged at National.
Breeders are also rewarded for earning ROMs on dogs they bred. "If you are breeder or owner of a dam who has produced 2 ROM’s or a sire who has produced 4 ROMs, you are eligible for a ROM Cumulative Award.
If you are a breeder who has bred 5, 10, or 15 ROMs, you are eligible for a ROM Cumulative Award.
I agree. Owner handling is incredibly difficult. I do wish AKC did written critiques though I couldn't imagine the amount of time that would add onto an already longer day due to the amount of high entries dobes typically get, at least in my area. More judges would have to be hired to handle all of the breeds in a day which means more money on clubs that are already struggling which means higher entry fees. UDC has the advantage of judging one breed.
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