Re introducing an E collar

[BamMoMoMommy]

Anyone stepped away from using the e collar and then gone back to it? Or started using one well after the basic training phase is past?

Tips on going back to using an e collar after several months not using one?

Got the mini educator ET-300ZEN and starting to get myself familiar with it. Don't plan to use it for a couple more weeks, just trying to get myself as educated as possible on the collar. I don't want to screw up the progress we have made.

The last couple of weeks....drilling home the basics again..is working.

His focus is getting much better, his response time to a command is getting better....in a controlled environment....the yard or what little bit of work area we have here near the house. We haven't ventured out away from the "known" areas at all.

Pinch collar is helping a lot with the getting distracted/ tugging while walking, he doesn't like it......but he is cooperating.


We used an e collar from about 14 to 23 months, but it was a malfunctioning piece of junk , it got to the point it wouldn't hold a charge for more than a couple of hours and I just gave up. At that point he was doing well with recall and focus and the collar just didn't seem necessary but UGH..hind site is 20/20...firdmanshore.

 

[MelonJ]

What are you hoping to do with him and it?

Generally speaking for obedience work: Perhaps get it on him for a week or two before using it again just to get used to the feeling of having it on. And I’d say start from step one: finding working level and using leash guidance to retrain the directional movement you want with the commands in low distraction areas and move on eith the 3Ds (distance, duration, distractions) when he seems to be getting the idea faster. Im no training expert. Its just fresh in my mind though lol.

 

[BamMoMoMommy]

Its just fresh in my mind though lol.

Hey..that's what I need!!

What are you hoping to do with him and it?

Back up..in case the "back to square one" training we are doing slips his goofy, squishy A.D.H.D. riddled brain when we start venturing out again.

Mo's been getting to go out with Dad.....since it seemed unfair to take something from him just cause we can't get Bam to cooperate when we got out in public now days.

When they leave together.....I have a pouting, whining mess on my hands here. I KNOW....some say they don't have the logic skills to reason out "being left out" in a situation like this......but....anyone thinks that..if they spent a few hours with Bam when Mo goes out with Dad...they would swear I dressed a cranky--needs a nap----two year old...... in a realistic doberman costume. ~sigh~!

 

[MelonJ]

Hey..that's what I need!!



Back up..in case the "back to square one" training we are doing slips his goofy, squishy A.D.H.D. riddled brain when we start venturing out again.

Mo's been getting to go out with Dad.....since it seemed unfair to take something from him just cause we can't get Bam to cooperate when we got out in public now days.

When they leave together.....I have a pouting, whining mess on my hands here. I KNOW....some say they don't have the logic skills to reason out "being left out" in a situation like this......but....anyone thinks that..if they spent a few hours with Bam when Mo goes out with Dad...they would swear I dressed a cranky--needs a nap----two year old...... in a realistic doberman costume. ~sigh~!

Ah behavioral issues. I’m of no help in that area as I’ve got a screaming howler the moment he is corrected on ecollar lol. Obedience? He’s wonderful. Give a command on working level? Compliance. Correct for non-compliance of known verbal command? Compliance. But say “no” and correct for misbehavior (usually yelp-whining) regardless of level low, medium, or high and you’d think he (as another forum member put it) was being skinned alive. He is ridiculously dramatic, AND LOUD about his objections. It’s obviously overthetop because his working level outdoors for obedience is quite high when in drive and not a peep out of him, just happy compliance like “oh right, you told me to do something.” Quite emotionally exhausting to hear the unnecessary antics that goes along with correcting his misbehavior. Heaven forbid I have to correct him in public. He’d probably stash some fake blood to use for such an occasion lol. So believe me, I get ya.

 

[BamMoMoMommy]

He’d probably stash some fake blood to use for such an occasion lol.

I don't know a thing about Bam's blood line...but I think there might be some kind of cousin thing going on here...cuz you just described Bam....right down to being devious enough to figure out the fake blood.

He went wild child on us back first of Dec...I should have dropped the link of the "why" we are where we are right now in here..soooo..

POOF...look MA

Shot version....schedule/life changed...for the better I thought....it slowed down....but THAT'S when he went wild child on us.

Working with the vet to get to the bottom of it....found out his thyroid hormone was was as low as it could get without being below the norm. Blessed with a vet who doesn't see "dog" ...he sees breeds...and understands norms ain't always norms..depending on the breed. Got Bam om meds....headed into two weeks on them...but takes up to four months to see improvement....so outside the basic square one stuff.....we aren't trying to tackle too much til we know the meds are getting him back to par levels.

He was doing really well this weekend......we had a lot of new distraction going on...he was doing really well with the ME ( look at me) Come commands....but we had a few times..he just kinda went...
NOPE...I can.... but I ain't gonna and you can't make me...stubborn....so it's times like that..I think we need to get back to using the E collar.

We are trying to get a time set up to meet with a local trainer/behaviorist but between weather and schedules.... the universe ain't bein' kind *shakes fist at sky*

 

[MelonJ]

I don't know a thing about Bam's blood line...but I think there might be some kind of cousin thing going on here...cuz you just described Bam....right down to being devious enough to figure out the fake blood.

Cousins for sure, then. LOL! Wow, just read that thread. How old is Bam again?

 

[BamMoMoMommy]

He's 4.5 years old.

This whole thing is as heart breaking as it is maddening. They all figure out patterns in our lives......but Bam seems to have that down to a science.


4:00 a.m.
It's time to be up!! ( So what if it is the weekend and the alarm didn't go off it is time to be UP and get food!!!)


10:30 a.m
Mom...Mom...Mom...Mom...
Did you forget it's time for food?

2:30 p.m
Repeat above


3:30 p.m
DAD'S HOME!! We sit here and wait for him to come in the door!!

5:30 p.m.
It's dinner time, we sit here and then dad will get us dinner too.

8:00 p.m.
It's time for meds, we sit here at 8 p.m. cuz this is where we get the special treat...and now we go to bed.


Grab shoes means
OHH YIPPEY!! We are going outside!!!

Pick up keys...
OH!OH!OH! Going for a ride!!!!

Grab the walk leads,
OH!OH!OH!!!!! We sit here while we get our leads on and go for a BIG WALK.

WOOOOWHOOOO..Mom's got the treat coat on!!!!
I have a utility jacket I wear when we are doing training...lots of pockets....loaded with treats and they know this jacket, the KNOW the jacket. My husband says it's cuz it smells like a sidewalk hotdog vendors cart...and could be...but they know the jacket some how from other jackets I have.

The stinkers can tell time.....and recognize shoes, keys, leads, jackets...on and on...and this is stuff BAM has taught MO! Bam's the one who cues in on patterns....Mo's just tagging along so he doesn't miss out/get left out.

WHY..can't I tap into that part of his brain to help him get back to the guy we can take to the pet store....to the dog park...for a walk down town.

I need to figure out how to tap into THAT part of his squishy brain!!!

 

[Ravenbird]

I would venture to say that if he wore & experienced an e-collar before, he will remember whatever you taught him while using it. They can be very collar-wise, just like they know your training jacket with pockets. When you put the new e-collar on and he feels the snug fit and the points, he will know it's business and what to expect. You can start slow like he'd never had it on, but I'm betting he'll remember exactly what it's all about. And keep us posted on how it's working!

 

[BamMoMoMommy]

but I'm betting he'll remember exactly what it's all about.

I hope so.

Using it the first time with him...was the first time we had ever used one...and I walked into to that worried I'd mess him up for good but we managed to get it down and he was doing well with just the tone....rarely had to use the shock stim....and I am so kicking myself now for not staying with it!

 

[MelonJ]

Oh yes, they’re micro-tune into everyone else’s business but their own lol. Dealing with that now actually... I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this all misbehavior all of a sudden, especially at this age.

 

[Doberman Gang]

If this is a different ecollar than the one before, I would put it on him, let him wander around and nick him. Start on about 6 and go up by twos until you see him look down as if to say what was that. It should be a very subtle look down. Once you find the level have him wear it while training with his prong collar and pair it. Every time you give a slight correction nick him at the same time. This will become the same meaning as the prong correction. You may eventually have to bump up the ecollar because they get used to the training level and it really isn’t much of a correction but it is to give them understanding for the correction.

 

[BamMoMoMommy]

Oh yes, they’re micro-tune into everyone else’s business but their own lol. Dealing with that now actually... I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this all misbehavior all of a sudden, especially at this age.

It's more like they micro manage everyone else!!! Thanks for the sympathy. We are gonna get thru this....three kids who tested me from birth til they left the nest...every chance they got( and a son who is just days shy of 26..STILL testing me!!)...didn't break me....Bam doesn't know the Mama Bear he has

We will figure it out....I get up every day thinking it's a two step dance thing...we go forward two steps then back one...but the back step isn't going backwards...it is a ---catch our breathe, regroup---figure out what needs adjusted--time out...and then take the next two forward. I am blessed to have an amazing support network in our vet and our vet tech daughter. Add who knows..someone may log in here and stumble into the insanity I have here..and go
HEY! I went thru this..and here is how we fixed it!!
Or maybe stumble into dealing with the same thing and won't feel like they are on the loosing end of the deal with a four legged wild child and have some tips..or can take some tips..from all this.

 

[BamMoMoMommy]

If this is a different ecollar than the one before, I would put it on him, let him wander around and nick him. Start on about 6 and go up by twos until you see him look down as if to say what was that. It should be a very subtle look down. Once you find the level have him wear it while training with his prong collar and pair it. Every time you give a slight correction nick him at the same time. This will become the same meaning as the prong correction. You may eventually have to bump up the ecollar because they get used to the training level and it really isn’t much of a correction but it is to give them understanding for the correction.

Thanks much!!

I was wondering about the E collar with the pinch collar.....working with both at the same time. He's got a couple of bare spot on his neck now from the thyroid issue, I was told he may still have some symptoms show up for two or three weeks after we start the meds.....so I am going to wait a few more days before I start with the E collar.

I'm working in short spurts with the pinch collar...more trying to get him used the new way of correction...and he can be the squealing drama queen MelonJ wrote about with her pup.

He is getting the clue acting out isn't a great idea with the pinch collar on. I keep waiting for him to balk/back away when I put it on...so far he isn't...trying to keep the time we do use the pinch collar as fun/positive as we can.

Any other tips you got..I'm all eyes here.

 

[BamMoMoMommy]

I wish I had had the sense to start Bam out with a pinch collar.

He has started to really clue into the fact he IS in control of what the collar does....and in control of getting a "bite" from the collar. He's getting a good pause in his step...kinda of like he is thinking
"OH WAIT..nope...not a good idea to lunge or get out ahead of Mom"....and slow his roll.

Today seems to be the first day Mo noticed something new---- in the get ready for our walk---routine....when I went to put it on Bam...Mo walked over to the spot we were in and sat down and looked at me like "Okay..where's MY NEW FANCY NECKLACE???" and he kept sniffing at the collar on Bam and I swear I could hear Mo thinkin
"How come he got a new necklace??Where's my new necklace???"

Some days it is hard for me to convince myself they aren't human brothers.... in doberman costumes

 

[BamMoMoMommy]

Need some help with first time settings. This collar is a lot different then the one I had a year or so ago.

Recommendations for settings to start with, what range would be a good start??

Reading and checking out you tube vids......gets be confusing...some say don't use anything but the electrical stem...other say tone then vibrate...and e stim only as a last resort.


I have held the collar in my hand...flat on my palm........not sure if I using it right.....set at a seven...don't feel any e stim from the probes.

 

[MelonJ]

Need some help with first time settings. This collar is a lot different then the one I had a year or so ago.

Recommendations for settings to start with, what range would be a good start??

Reading and checking out you tube vids......gets be confusing...some say don't use anything but the electrical stem...other say tone then vibrate...and e stim only as a last resort.


I have held the collar in my hand...flat on my palm........not sure if I using it right.....set at a seven...don't feel any e stim from the probes.

Vibrate freaks the heck out of DeSoto lol. I started him off finding his working level from level 1 and nicked up a level until he gave some sort of cue that he felt it. For me, he looked back like, “Is someone behind me?” LOL. Outdoors, his working level is anywhere from 13-25. In the home, he doesn’t feel anything until level 10 minimum. Heck, I don’t even feel it until level 9 lol. Then from there I just worked him with his prong, leash, e collar, and kibble on the “place” command and the “down” command since for me, the initial goal was to clean up his obedience. With correcting behaviors it may work similarly, just without the treats. Using his prong and leash pressure to guide him directionally as you simultaneously use the ecollar. I personally hold down the continuous button on his working level AND apply leash pressure until he is in command/has stopped the behavior.

 

[BamMoMoMommy]

I would venture to say that if he wore & experienced an e-collar before, he will remember whatever you taught him while using it.

Amazingly....that exactly what happened when I got it on him. It's been at least 10 if not closer to 13 months since he has had one on...but he knew what was up.

Big shout out to @Ddski5 for the vid with Ragnar and the unit up top!!!! A bonus of the unit on top.....he can't move it around when he thinks I'm not watching and he starts pawing at the collar.

I started him off finding his working level from level 1 and nicked up a level until he gave some sort of cue that he felt it. For me, he looked back like, “Is someone behind me?” LOL. Outdoors, his working level is anywhere from 13-25. In the home, he doesn’t feel anything until level 10 minimum. Heck, I don’t even feel it until level 9 lol.

Thanks! Bam has always responded to the vibrate well....but he did need a poke from the e stim once in a while to make him get the clue "Mom means it..NOW!"

Last go round using it...we didn't use it to work with commands...was strictly to correct/stop unwanted/unsafe behavior.
Working now to rethink the process and working with commands.

Mo is about to get a rude "shock"..hahahahaha.....he's gettin' an E collar also. He's being a butthead while I am trying to work with Bam....and DH kept having to call Mo back and out. I figure what's good for the goose...is gonna be good for the Moose.

 

[MelonJ]

Not Mo too! Bam’s a naughty influence!

 

[Doberman Gang]

Need some help with first time settings. This collar is a lot different then the one I had a year or so ago.

Recommendations for settings to start with, what range would be a good start??

Reading and checking out you tube vids......gets be confusing...some say don't use anything but the electrical stem...other say tone then vibrate...and e stim only as a last resort.


I have held the collar in my hand...flat on my palm........not sure if I using it right.....set at a seven...don't feel any e stim from the probes.

I never use the vibrate always momentary and continuous. The vibrate function will run the battery down twice as fast as the stem does. No need for it.

 

[BamMoMoMommy]

Not Mo too! Bam’s a naughty influence!

I keep asking both of them..
WHY do you have to monkey see...monkey do ....ONLY BAD HABITS???
They just look at me, then each other like
"It's his fault...not mine!!"

The vibrate function will run the battery down twice as fast as the stem does. No need for it.

Dang...thanks..didn't know that.