E collar (not contacting)

[Kerryh]

Hey everyone, I was hoping for some advice so I can understand why my ecollar doesn't seem to work on low level with my Dobe. I have two dogs, a 2 year old female staffy. Her recall is perfect, she's fully e collar trained and her recall is solid even without it on. She never needs the stim anymore, the beep is enough for her, and I always used it on a level I or below on her. Today I started conditioning my Dobe, who is 6 months, I was trying to find his working level in a low level distraction area. We got up to level 13 and he still wasn't registering anything, I took off and readjusted the collar position twice in case that was the reason. I also tested the collar on myself, the setting was definitely working.rather than continuing to go up a few levels I am wondering do I need contact points for the collar as his hair is quite thick. Wondering if anyone else has needed this. Thanks in advance

 

[Ravenbird]

What kind of e-collar? Level 13 with 15 being the highest it will go? or is it level 13 out of 100? The collar should be very snug, high up on the neck just under the ears, with the contact to the side, not under the jaw and not on top of the neck.

I will say that depending on my dogs working mode or level of drive she can ignore taps at 25 - 30 (my e-collar goes to 110) and in totally high drive I have had to turn it up to 70. This was as a young dog breaking explosive barking at innocent strangers. I haven't had to do that in a long time now, just letting you know that sometimes it takes way more than you think.

I was trying to find his working level in a low level distraction area.

At home is the best place to start - should be zero distractions if you are looking for that first indication of "what was that?"

Great looking pup - let us know how it goes!

 

[Ravenbird]

Correct position & very snug:

 

[Ddski5]

Reiterate what Ravenbird said.
-needs to be snug high on neck. With Dobermans short hair, should not have any issues with contact points to skin. Be mindful that wet hair and wet skin will make the stim significantly easier and powerful.
-you have an E-Collar? Dogstar?
-my first Doberman would laugh at a stim 15. His bottom number was between 29-25, his avg was 33, in high drive- 75 would get his attention.
-my second Doberman does a back flip of a stim10…very sensitive to stim to where I only use vibrate.

Some days you will find a lower stim will get his attention whereas other days you have to keep turning the knob until you see a reaction. Drive, situation, environment, stubbornness, etc…. time and experience will determine this. You just need to make sure the factors you can control are the same- like same collar, same ECollar, same position on neck, same hole(tightness), etc.. I use the bungee collar so it automatically adjust to size of neck.

 

[DracoDobie]

Basically what Ravenbird said!

I use an e-collar with Draco, a mini educator. We usually use it at level 30, any less than that, he won't even notice. I've used it as high as 75, he has a really high drive as he's from working lines, so there were some times where it was needed. It all depends on the situation, the dog...Draco is really tough, I know other dogs reacting to the e-collar on really low levels. Just keep it high on the neck, make sure it's tight and snug, and take your time to condition him to it, start at home with no distractions, then you can level up. It can take a while, watch lots of videos and listen to podcasts.

 

[Kerryh]

Thank you all for the advice and time in responding. So I use the mini educator, which goes up to 100, I think I had it in my head as my staffy only needs a very low stim and I watched a YouTube video last night of a training conditioning a Dobe to that exact collar for the first time and they said most dogs are between a 6 and a 12, so when he wasn't registering anything I was like what the heck am I doing wrong lol. I also have the bungee collar so I'm confident that the position was correct as it was the same in the picture example about (thank you for showing that). I'm going to try him again tomorrow morning in house before heading outside for more training and see if I can find a level that registers. Thank you

 

[Ravenbird]

Since you already have experience with the staffy I think you will figure it out real quick. It's just like @Ddski5 pointed out, even with 2 different Dobermans, you have different responses from them!

Hope you stick around and show us your training progress with photos! Welcome to the Doberman Chat!

 

[Kerryh]

Thank you I'll let you know how I get on for sure, very happy to be a part of this group now and see all the other dogs and every ones experiences

 

[LifeofRubie]

We use the educator as well and it's been a long time since we got it but I do think I put the longer contacts on. If I recall correctly, when we were introducing it and finding the level at which to start at, I think it was about 13 when she indicated she could feel 'something.'

At this point, a tone is enough 95% of the time (like your staffy!) but otherwise I think we're at a 40 or so. And that was not enough to call her off in Skunkgate 2023

Pro Tip: Educator recommends a paste concocted of Dawn dish detergent and baking soda to get the skunk stank off your collars. Slather it on and let it sit. Repeat as needed.

 

[Kaiser2016]

my first Doberman would laugh at a stim 15. His bottom number was between 29-25, his avg was 33, in high drive- 75 would get his attention.

Same here. Kaiser used to react to a 7 when he was first introduced to eCollar in a no distraction environment, but we quickly learned his bottom was 27 with a high of 74 to pull him out of high drive situations.

Drive, situation, environment, stubbornness, etc…

Exactly!

Skunkgate 2023

 

[Kerryh]

Amazing thank you that's really helpful. I did try him again and weirdly I got to the point where (please tell me someone else has experienced this or is my dog broken) lol when he started to register it still low at like 15 he would just start scratching his neck lol

 

[Kswoodssue]

what I learned is that the ecollar works well when the zap is once, quick and the stim is unpleasant. Our girl would redirect with a beep, but repeat the offense over and over. She also learned when the collar is on or off. 3 tv remotes and 2?expensive pair of glasses later, I learned!

 

[Ravenbird]

what I learned is that the ecollar works well when the zap is once, quick and the stim is unpleasant. Our girl would redirect with a beep, but repeat the offense over and over.

Yep. If you are needing to correct a bad behavior, high stim, once & done. I was chastised for "nagging" - repeatedly using a correction that suggested to my dog that she wasn't doing the right thing. This doesn't pave the way for a clear answer for the dog on what is OK and what is absolutely not to be tolerated. This is the first dog I ever had to use an e-collar on, so it was a learning process. There are a lot of ways to use it on super low stims to bump their obedience, but for willful disobedience, once & done is way more effective.

 

[Kerryh]

Heyyy guys!!

Wanted to update you all on Niko's progress with the Ecollar, I haven't actually tested him again with it until today (as we have been busy practicing everything we've been learning at our Mondioring classes).

However I tried him during my lunch break today, and found him registering at level 12 to 13 (then realising when the collar moves on him that causes him to act weird and scratch his neck) but he was doing great I love how quickly dogs learn new things.
My next question is, do you guys recommend prong collar? Many owners I've spoken to all said they use them, my trainer however is against ecollar and prong - however - Ecollar was the absolute best tool I ever used for my staffy. So I am all for tools used correctly and fairly.

I think a prong would help (he walks excellently on the lead 95% of the time) but in instances when he decides hes just going to burst forward & then I am pulled off my feet & for when people stop to talk to me about him (which does happen a lot as hes so stunning) he attempts now to jump up on them and when I dont allow him, he then out of frustration jumps up on me and spring baords off my stomach (he otherwise never jumps up on me as he knows this is not allowed). Keen to hear your thoughts. TIA x

 

[Ravenbird]

My next question is, do you guys recommend prong collar?

I do, especially for a dog like:

n instances when he decides hes just going to burst forward & then I am pulled off my feet & for when people stop to talk to me about him (which does happen a lot as hes so stunning) he attempts now to jump up on them and when I dont allow him, he then out of frustration jumps up on me and spring baords off my stomach (he otherwise never jumps up on me as he knows this is not allowed).

So I am all for tools used correctly and fairly

You and your dog are 100% safe with this attitude! You will both be happy with the results.

 

[Ddski5]

Prong is a game changer for discipline and on leash manners.

ECollar is a fantastic tool to let them be off leash but you can still tap them on the shoulders if need be.

 

[Doberman Gang]

I always train on a prong collar first then pair that with the e collar so the dog understands the correction. Otherwise you can cause other problems if they don’t understand the correction.

 

[Kerryh]

Fabulous thank you all so much for your help & advice as always - I love being a part of this community so so super helpful. Going to order his HS 3.2m today then Yeah I found the ecollar for my staffy an absolute game changer for her recall, Niko has taken to it much better than she did in the beginning. Who knows maybe I'll get her a prong too which should maybe allow me to walk them with ease together as currently that is not the case ha. I am 95% walking them seperately atm (so Niko learns his heel position and what is expected of him while ON lead, but I do take them on walks together where I drive them somewhere great for running free and sniffing. After reading on this forum I am also playing with my dobe every single day & I do nose work him every day (I'm just a beginner with this) & the difference these things have made to our relationship and how much more chilled he is in the evenings instead of his usual witching hour LOL is AMAZING! <3

 

[Ravenbird]

at our Mondioring classes

Do share your fun!!! I love all the bite sports! If you haven't seen it there is a whole section in the forums list called Schutzhund & Protection Sports - feel free to add your experiences (and Pictures!) there!

After reading on this forum I am also playing with my dobe every single day & I do nose work him every day (I'm just a beginner with this) & the difference these things have made to our relationship and how much more chilled he is in the evenings instead of his usual witching hour LOL is AMAZING! <3

You're my kind of people! So glad you found this group - hope to follow your journey with your dogs and adventures!