Is cropping purely cosmetic?

[Poppy]

Yep. When my husband read it to me a few months ago, I flipped out! They even go so far as to say that you can ask your vet for an earlier neuter/spay.

Doctor won't be getting neutered until he is 2, if I even have it done. I do want to get a female dobe, so I assume that a breeder will not be as likely to sell to a house with an intact male which is my only reason for doing the surgery.

I have to add this funny story. My daughter keeps trying to get me to let Doctor play with Molly, the neighbor's dog. I have to constantly remind her that Molly isn't spayed, and that there is no way that I am risking having some DoctorMollydobermutts running around! Now, we have friends that have a Malinios and their girl is named Molly as well. My husband was talking one day about getting Doctor and Molly together, and I started fussing at him about not wanting dobermutts, and he responded that they would be Dobinois, so they would be the fiercest protectors around. I asked him if he knew what Mals look like because the dog in the yard next door is most certainly not one. He laughed and said that he was talking about Mike's dog! Lol

You can safely let him play with intact females as long as they are not in season. Dogs only come into season every 4-6 months usually 6 months...it is pretty obvious when they are in standing heat especially a large dog...I had male/female intact littermates that spent lots and lots of time together playing together. I also have two female intact Chinese Cresteds and a male intact Crested. They are together all the time unless one of the girls is in heat.

 

[AresMyDobie]

I've heard it's also dependent on how hairy a dog ears are. Short hair dogs don't get many infections for example. With cocker spaniels and 'water dogs' working breeds, get a lot of ear issues because too much water is let into their ears. I have a JRT and he had one ear infection but that was because he decided to jump into a lake lol !

I shaved the ears and it still happened so I stand by my statement. I will never own another floppy eared dog.

 

[AresMyDobie]

We're getting a male Dobe next year and leaving all his body parts alone. I believe if something was born the way nature intended, why alter for human benefit or opinion? Poor nuggets don't ask for it to be done over here in the UK a lot of dog body part altering is illegal anyway

Nature did not intend for any animal to have floppy ears. Floppy ears are human bred, so technically they go against natures design, and are in natural.

 

[AresMyDobie]

^^ and I hate auto correct *arent not are in .... Lol wouldn't let me edit it.

 

[JanS]

I just googled that so even more sad face lol I love big ear dobes I just think they look stunning and elegant but that's just me

Wow that looks just like @Judith s beautiful Bella.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Ohhhh I just googled that so even more sad face lol I love big ear dobes I just think they look stunning and elegant but that's just me

Would either of these dogs appeal to you just as much as a Dobe? A lot of physical similarities, and also high-energy athletic dogs.

 

[NikiL02]

Maybe

 

[Bashthebluedobe]

This thread has been an incredibly entertaining read! I especially enjoyed the elephant ear debate, even though it derailed from the topic. Reminded me of Monty Python's African/European swallow skit

I recently walked away from my vet because of this very subject. When I brought Bash in for his first checkup, my vet was warning about Van Willebrand Disease and asked if I planned to have any surgery done. I told her that he was going in to get his ears cropped. She responded, "that's too bad, poor Bash..." then proceeded to subject me to additional lectures from her assistant and the desk clerk.

I didn't decide to crop based only on cosmetics. I spent considerable time researching the procedure beforehand. I ultimately decided to crop not only because of the breed's standards, but for undeniable evolutionary reasons.

No wild canine has floppy ears. The Dingo is probably the best proof of erect ears' advantages. The species reverted to wild from a menagerie of domestic breeds. Notice that none have floppy ears...even though they originated from a gene pool that, inevitably, included some floppy eared dogs.

With triangular, erect ears, dogs can detect the direction of sound, express emotion, and in the face of a dexterous adversary (like a raccoon, cat, or a human), avoid injury or death from providing a hand-hold.

For the record...I'm not anti-floppy eared. I have a Basset and a Dachshund. I just resent being regulated by misguided busybodies.

Incidentally, this vet declaws cats. I'd almost like to go back one more time so I can point out their hypocrisy...but I don't want my money going to them.

 

[AresMyDobie]

This thread has been an incredibly entertaining read! I especially enjoyed the elephant ear debate, even though it derailed from the topic. Reminded me of Monty Python's African/European swallow skit

I recently walked away from my vet because of this very subject. When I brought Bash in for his first checkup, my vet was warning about Van Willebrand Disease and asked if I planned to have any surgery done. I told her that he was going in to get his ears cropped. She responded, "that's too bad, poor Bash..." then proceeded to subject me to additional lectures from her assistant and the desk clerk.

I didn't decide to crop based only on cosmetics. I spent considerable time researching the procedure beforehand. I ultimately decided to crop not only because of the breed's standards, but for undeniable evolutionary reasons.

No wild canine has floppy ears. The Dingo is probably the best proof of erect ears' advantages. The species reverted to wild from a menagerie of domestic breeds. Notice that none have floppy ears...even though they originated from a gene pool that, inevitably, included some floppy eared dogs.

With triangular, erect ears, dogs can detect the direction of sound, express emotion, and in the face of a dexterous adversary (like a raccoon, cat, or a human), avoid injury or death from providing a hand-hold.

For the record...I'm not anti-floppy eared. I have a Basset and a Dachshund. I just resent being regulated by misguided busybodies.

Incidentally, this vet declaws cats. I'd almost like to go back one more time so I can point out their hypocrisy...but I don't want my money going to them.

Love it ! Lol the elephant thing ... I was apart of that but it's absolutely correct that no animal born from nature without human influence has floppy ears. I will stand by once again that I will never ever again own a dog with floppy ears.

 

[Bashthebluedobe]

@Oh Little Oji...That first pic hit me in the heart. We adopted a rescue Weim years ago. It was apparent that he'd been abused by a wannabe hunter in his earlier life. He cowered from men, and when I put on an orange shirt, he took one look at me and hid...curled up in the corner. So much for dogs being unable to identify color...

It took some time and patience to get him to warm up to me and my oldest son. Once he did, he became among the most loving and loyal dogs I've ever had. I doubt we could have ever taught him to hunt though...he could never acclimate to the sound of gunfire, but none of us really cared.

We had him for about a year before he was hit by a car

 

[Archer]

First and foremost, cropped and erect ears is our breed standard. I do think that today's crops are more cosmetic crops and are less functional crops, but that doesn't mean I am saying that today's crops aren't performed for a function. We are talking about a working breed bred for personal protection. Ear cropping increases sound localization by allowing the ear to be able to move more like a cat's ear. This can mean the dog can isolate out a sound faster saving sometimes valuable time and being able to assist in sensing the direction of an inccoming threat more quickly.

I do agree that cropped ears have less chance of getting infected, but that doesn't mean they can't or won't. Archer is cropped and gets frequent ear infections due to his allergies. Honestly, I don't list "less prone to ear infections" as a reason to crop. It's solely a benefit, but not one I feel will hold an argument as to why our breed should be cropped

 

[GennyB]

First and foremost, cropped and erect ears is our breed standard. I do think that today's crops are more cosmetic crops and are less functional crops, but that doesn't mean I am saying that today's crops aren't performed for a function. We are talking about a working breed bred for personal protection. Ear cropping increases sound localization by allowing the ear to be able to move more like a cat's ear. This can mean the dog can isolate out a sound faster saving sometimes valuable time and being able to assist in sensing the direction of an inccoming threat more quickly.

I do agree that cropped ears have less chance of getting infected, but that doesn't mean they can't or won't. Archer is cropped and gets frequent ear infections due to his allergies. Honestly, I don't list "less prone to ear infections" as a reason to crop. It's solely a benefit, but not one I feel will hold an argument as to why our breed should be cropped

I agree 1000% ! I look at the standard as a template, a pattern to get the best function for the body type. I admit to a lack of
understanding when people say "but I don't want a show dog why does it matter?" I don't want a show dog either, I'm just not in a place I can make that kind of commitment. I still want the best dog I can get. I think a proper functioning dog eliminates some problems that could cause unnecessary pain. How do I relate that to ears, honestly I can't unless you want to go the possible injury route. I will say that I believe that Drake being cropped is a bonus to my lab in a dobe suit. He loves his water and will stick his head completely under the water. When he finished with his swim, he shakes his head and gets the water out. More than likely saving himself from a painful ear infection.
I believe I can beat you on the cruelty argument. I have seen the procedure done. I have witnessed the recovery process from beginning to end and have yet to see any cruelty or even signs of pain.
I get a little tired of defending myself from people that know little to nothing about the c/d process and call me names because I believe in it.
Are natural dobes beautiful? Absolutely! But as long as I am free to choose, I will choose to crop and dock. I prefer to make that choice without being ridiculed by people that don't really know what they are talking about. They have just been filled with the kool-aid of the AR wackos.
Do what you want with your dog. As long as you are properly caring for your dog I'll leave you alone, I just ask you give me the same respect.

 

[Archer]

I in fact did not ask this...I was just asking littleoji his perspective on cropping from his post. I am in no way bashing cropping, as I have stated before I like the look. But in all seriousness your link states first it is for aesthetic purpose and also health benefits...I disagree with the latter. You can find articles all over the internet for one side or another...
The American Kennel Club (AKC) says the practices are “integral to defining and preserving breed character” in certain breeds. But the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) opposes docking and cropping. “The most common reason for cropping and docking is to give a dog a certain look.
I believe the AKC says it all...

The AMVA honestly just rolls their opinion with whatever is popular with JQP. The AR agenda is what is pushed into our face daily. The AMVA has also said that there are no health concerns reguarding cropping or docking if done safely under a liscensed and experienced veterinarian. The AMVA supports early spay/neuter when there is documented evidence against doing it, but they still push it. Doesn't make them right about it, doesn't mean they are right about being anti c/d either. To me, there are many more health concerns and complicatiobs with spaying and neutering than cropping and docking.

The AKC's explanation of "cropping to give a dog a certain look" is their way of trying to be gentle and explain a standard that has been respected for over 100 years to lay people. It is nothing more than that. It's not supposed to be taken as them claiming c/d is cosmetic in fact, if you go on to read some of their other explanations they are very much for c/d as they aim to maintain respected breed standards. AMVA does not. They are not in the buisness to

I have assisted in ear crops. First was one of my breeder's litters a few yeas ago. I was there for my litter's crop and I was the one who sutured their tails after they were docked. These are not cruel and inhumane procedures. I wouldn't have proceeded with them if they were. They bounce back after the affects of the anesthesia wear off. My puppies wre running around playing afterwards like nothing had changed. Those of us who have witnessed a dog post spay know this isn't the case. Why do you think they keep them overnight?

I prefer c/d. It's breed standard. To walk away from the standard will change the standard eventually. This will be a proverbial snowball. Once they change one thing, the rest will start changing. I love my breed. I fight to keep their standard. I also love that I live in a country where I have feeedom of speech and right to choose. Due to this, I respect the right of others to choose not to c/d as I would never want MY choice taken away from me.

 

[Archer]

I agree 1000% ! I look at the standard as a template, a pattern to get the best function for the body type. I admit to a lack of
understanding when people say "but I don't want a show dog why does it matter?" I don't want a show dog either, I'm just not in a place I can make that kind of commitment. I still want the best dog I can get. I think a proper functioning dog eliminates some problems that could cause unnecessary pain. How do I relate that to ears, honestly I can't unless you want to go the possible injury route. I will say that I believe that Drake being cropped is a bonus to my lab in a dobe suit. He loves his water and will stick his head completely under the water. When he finished with his swim, he shakes his head and gets the water out. More than likely saving himself from a painful ear infection.
I believe I can beat you on the cruelty argument. I have seen the procedure done. I have witnessed the recovery process from beginning to end and have yet to see any cruelty or even signs of pain.
I get a little tired of defending myself from people that know little to nothing about the c/d process and call me names because I believe in it.
Are natural dobes beautiful? Absolutely! But as long as I am free to choose, I will choose to crop and dock. I prefer to make that choice without being ridiculed by people that don't really know what they are talking about. They have just been filled with the kool-aid of the AR wackos.
Do what you want with your dog. As long as you are properly caring for your dog I'll leave you alone, I just ask you give me the same respect.

Exactly. I have assisted in three ear crops now. People's argument on it being cruel is nothing more than emotional
opinion.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

An interesting study conducted regarding the impression that crop and dock has on people. The focus of the study is Dobermans.

I didn't have nearly enough time to read and understand it tonight, but I skimmed it. I'm surprised this study and report exists.

Check it out.

Tail Docking and Ear Cropping Dogs: Public Awareness and Perceptions

 

[jazzies mum]

I also just skimmed this but read the results. It pretty much just said what we all knew anyway about the perceptions of cropping and docking. Add to that that a Doberman is usually a dark colour and you have a dog perceived as more aggressive! I'm not sure why it matters?

There are people who make a wide berth around Jazz purely because of how she looks, and people who make a bee line to her for the same reason. If she was C and D I think it would be much the same.

Just for the record I think this is one of the things that should be allowed to be a personal choice and not regulated by laws. There are so many other issues that are so much more important, like ensuring breeders are producing healthy dogs for instance!

 

[Kaiser2016]

Add to that that a Doberman is usually a dark colour and you have a dog perceived as more aggressive! I'm not sure why it matters?

Would be interesting if they got the same results using a fawn Doberman.

"In Experiment 2 the modified dogs were seen as less playful and more aggressive, which was similarly perceived in owners. This suggests that some behavioural traits perceived by participants in dogs are then reflected in their owners."

I would agree with this perception being more true than not. A passive or docile personality won't be able to have solid control over this breed. That's what's so interesting about people coming on to this site seeking help with a seemingly aggressive Doberman. Nearly always, the people have been too soft with the dog.

 

[GennyB]

Would be interesting if they got the same results using a fawn Doberman.

Well I can tell you most don't realize a fawn dobie is a doberman. People used to love on Greta and then ask what kind of dog she is. When I said doberman, I can't tell you how many people instantly jumped back. Of course my inner *itch had to come out and I would tell them "Don't worry I fed her today"

 

[Kaiser2016]

my inner *itch

Love it!

 

[jazzies mum]

"In Experiment 2 the modified dogs were seen as less playful and more aggressive, which was similarly perceived in owners. This suggests that some behavioural traits perceived by participants in dogs are then reflected in their owners."

But the Doberman personality would be the same whether modified or not. Yes, I think there has to be a certain personality that can deal with a Doberman effectively, it isn't for the fainthearted especially while they are young, but it is strange that this is perceived differently when the dog is cropped and docked!