[fci] Dobermann Breed Standard Changes On 1st Of January 2015

Ahaaaa...obviously we are not on the same page...seems like you are in the category of those who want a dobermann just for the looks and not for what they really are.

When i say superrior character i do not mean the ability to work as a service dog..going by your theory, there are better dogs than GSD's, so whats the point of getting a GSD when you can get a Belgian Mallinois??



............to be frank,i dont think the breed will miss the people of your category!!! (no disrespect intended)

I see that we are talking apples and oranges then. The ability to work (or a dogs "work ethic") is what I think of when someone refers to the "character" of working or hunting breeds.

Hunters may have personal preferences for the Blue Lacy over the Black Mouth Curr; or they may choose the German Jagdterrier over the Jack Russel Terrier. When choosing between those breeds the look or appearance isn't generally a reason to choose one breed over the other. Same with the GSD and Malinios- the 'look' is similar enough to be waayyyyy down the list of things to consider when choosing between them. Specific bloodlines or a KNPV vs. IPO pedigree will have far more importance when choosing between those breeds rather than the dogs appearance.

When comparing very different looking dogs like the Dobermann and GSD, the appearance is a bigger factor. There is a limit though on how much extra effort in training or risk of health problems, etc, etc one is willing to take just for looks or minor differences in personality. At some point it's just not worth it.

For me that point is the loss of the cropped/docked look. There are only a few reasons to justify training differently or worrying about health issues and a short life span of the Dobermann. Much, if not most of what the Dobermann has to offer can be found in a GSD except for short hair and his regal, aristocratic appearance.

I love my Dobermann and wouldn't trade him for a GSD or any other dog, but someday when he's dead and gone I will be faced with choices among the breeds. GSD's and Malinios of good (working) character are easy to find. There has to be some kind of compelling reason to choose a Dobermann instead. Loss of the cropped and docked look means a very significant reason will have disappeared.
 
I love my Dobermann and wouldn't trade him for a GSD or any other dog, but someday when he's dead and gone I will be faced with choices among the breeds.

I have had dobermanns for over 20 years now and i couldn't even imagine of having another breed one day..

To me,if it's not a dobermann its just another dog and i only want a dobermann.....even with uncropped ears and a long tail..
 
I agree with the remark in regard to when the ban of cropping and docking gets here....and sadly if history is any indicator (IMHO AKC sucks) - it will....it will weed out those who do not appreciate the breed and hopefully in the end help the breed to get back to where it once was in regard to a WORKING dog. I remember a few years back another forum posted a poll pertaining to this subject - Would you remain loyal to the breed if docking and cropping was banned? I was taken aback by the number of people/breeders that said they would find another breed. Really? I know it is ultimately a matter of opinion but IMHO ears and tails, or lack thereof, do not make the breed/dog. The well-bred Dobermann IS a noble breed - whether its ears are cropped or its tail is docked - it does not change the fact. I remember watching in awe how regal my boy Ingo looked when playing, working or just standing on top of a hill. Was he the best working Dobermann in regards to the sport he was trained for (IPO) that I've personally seen- no. I'm of the belief that had more to do with the training and method of training he received - in anothers hands things might have been different. Someone used a method on him that I am familiar with, but they never brought him through the tunnel.

Having natural ears and a tail does not affect a Dobermann's character, temperament, drives etc. Before my boy Ingo, I preferred docked and cropped...since Ingo...I prefer natural. I do believe that one should have a choice. As a working dog person I am more interested in what is in a dogs "heart" and the dogs structure, rather then cosmetic features. When I first saw a Rott with a natural tail it looked freaky to me....only because I was accustomed to the docked look.

I've been owned by and handled Rotts, GSD's and Mal's as a Military/Civilian Police officer/handler. I enjoy and respect the working breeds that I've had the privilege of handling - they each have their faults and strong points. Finding a really good working line GSD or Working line Malinois is not so easy. I currently am owned by a working line GSD and two working line Malinois - I'm personally not a fan of GSD's for myself, but I do love my husbands girl. I was once owned by a wonderful working line Dobermann and I hope to have the privilege of being owned by another one day. There is no breed that compares to a well-bred level headed working Dobermann IMHO - cut n dry.
 
Matt is correct IMO its only a matter of time in the USA to. If you don't know it's coming I suggest you pull your head out of the sand. That's not to say we shouldn't fight for our standard as it sits now, it's certainly possible we can put this off for a few years at best. But in the end the AR agenda regarding cropping and docking will prevail. I truthfully am ok with natural ears but the tails just change the dogs physical attributes. Some people choose breeds based on physical attributes such as coat length because of grooming responsibilities. I can picture a lot of spilled drinks on the coffee table with those tails. But truth be known the reason for banning C/D is BS. Under professional care cropping is not cruel. My puppies were WWE wrestling in the back of the pickup cab all the way home yesterday after their crops. I've read someplace that dogs have a pain tolerance 7 times that of humans If that's true I'm certain a crop is little more then an annoyance for a few days. Bla whatever the ban is coming no matter the truth or actual facts.
 
I believe it was open due to letting imported dogs, that can't show unless left natural,work on getting their American Championship. If they import to show here and docked then the international career is limited .

Actually it has nothing to do with showing imported dogs. We allow them in the ring here unlike the countries who have banned it as they don't allow our c/d dogs to show. We allowed choice - it is the other side that doesn not allow choice.

I will never accept the concept of defeat until it is over. For every breeder who has allowed dogs to go uncropped a nail was added to our defeat. I wish back in the 60's when they opened the standard to change the spelling and allow fawns and blues they had added that our dog MUST be shown cropped and docked. We still have the chance to hang on and stand firm.

For this to be the case, the breed would have to actually have a superior character.

You know when I hear now we will have to pay attention to character I cringe. There will always be or at least I hope there will always be people who show, people who show and temperament test and then those who only work. I do not think dummying down the dog is going to get show people out tracking, obedience and certainly not PP. So all it does is change that noble look to one that is more common and not distinguished.

....it will weed out those who do not appreciate the breed and hopefully in the end help the breed to get back to where it once was in regard to a WORKING dog.

So the noble electric look was not enough to perserve the essence of our working dogs but you think a softer look will now wake people up????? Exactly how do you see that happening. Now they will have a softer look and I guarantee you a softer look will not encourage anyone to get a harder temperament.

I agree with Ice I hope more would be focused on the character and heart of this wonderful breed but read - Most pet people do not understand the importance of standard and/or why it is important to maintain that standard. They like the "softer" look or the feel of those soft ears and/or don't want to bother with posting. Their breeder should have educated them as to the importance of a breed standard. I have turned down several homes the past few years who wanted the dog left uncropped. Never did i realize what a powerful impact that one little tiny effort by breeders to accomodate folks it would cost us our, standard our rights and eventually our dogs.

And I think Ice will agree with me on this point that even in Europe they have show lines that are not as strong in schutzhund as the pure working lines. So how do we think taking away that magnificiant look will change any of that??? If folks were too lazy to post ears what is suddenly going to wake them up to temperament which most don't understand anyway- they just want a good couch potatoe who is more labrador acting than Doberman as they think that means good temperament for a working breed.
 
Dobs4ever - my comment in regard to...it will weed out those who do not appreciate the breed and hopefully in the end help the breed to get back to where it once was in regard to a WORKING dog had more to do with those that are involved in the breed for its "stronger look" = just cosmetics. From the results of the poll on the other (Dobermann) forum it appears that the general public would not be AS interested in the breed if they were required to be left natural. Less demand should equal less backyard breeders....that's how it usually goes in the US. I can honestly understand if people leave the breed because of the health problems the breed has but to leave a breed because of cosmetic looks....ughhhhhhhh I think that says more about the owner then it does the breed (on the working side of the house at least).

Do you really believe that those of us who prefer the natural look of a Dobermann are just to lazy to post? I can assure you that I spend many more hours a day caring and working/playing/exercising with my dogs then the 15-20 minutes it would take me to post ears if that is what I wanted....it has nothing to do with being lazy. I respect the rights of those who wish to crop and dock ...I think it should be a choice and I'm willing to fight for everyone's right to make a choice...why dogg those who prefer the natural look by labeling them lazy?
 
Please understand that I was referring to pet people - not people who actually work train and understand the importance in temperament, conformation, health and working ability.

While you know I do believe a c/d breed should be c/d. Otherwise why have a standard if no one feels it is important enough to follow?
 
I have not found any published news online yet. .


You can try google now..it took over a week for the news to start circulating..

End of dobermann?
On 6.September 2013 at the IDC 2012 congress it has been decided that the breed standard is due to a change...for worst. Take a deep breath and sit down: Starting form 1.1.2015 dobermann will become and all-natural breed - no more cropping and docking! Even if you're from a county that allows it. In fact, if you're from a county that allows it you can still do it but you can't compete at FCI dog shows (which basically means you can't compete at any show). Just like many things that are considers flaws according to dobermann standard (and if present they will decrease the score), there are some things that will totally prevent a dog from being judged, called disqualifying faults (like missing testicles in males, yellow eye, missing teeth, white spots on coat)...and now cropped ears and docked tail will also be considered a disqualifying fault. There's no need to guess what will become of dobermann breed, one should only look at what happened to the countries, that once ruled the dobermann world, since they introduced docking/cropping ban. Yes, maybe looks aren't everything and people that already have a dobermann know how to appreciate a magnificent character that they have but it's hard to imaging that the new generations seeking a dog companion will settle for something that hardly resembles an image of a dobermann that they have in their mind. In our collective mind there's just room for one image of this dog and I bet it's not the variant with natural ears and tails.


source: Dobermann Review - www.dobermann-review.com | Facebook
 
I can't tell you how this saddens me. It's just one more thing, one more RIGHT that's taken from us. And to come from the people at IDC just seems all the more betraying. I feel like the wind got sucked outta my sails. What a crock. Actually makes me sick to my stomach. Maybe that's fear that it is coming and it just makes me wanna :complain:
 
I've actually never heard or thought I"d hear that a Standard can be changed like this. I still am shaking my head in disbelief.
 
Yes, maybe looks aren't everything and people that already have a dobermann know how to appreciate a magnificent character that they have but it's hard to imaging that the new generations seeking a dog companion will settle for something that hardly resembles an image of a dobermann that they have in their mind. In our collective mind there's just room for one image of this dog and I bet it's not the variant with natural ears and tails.

Ice I sit here reading all this and I just want to cry. ALL the beautiful pictures, videos and show info you have sent us with the beautiful c/d Dobermans at full alert - GONE

WHO - HOW WHY could they call c/d a FAULT? FAULTS are genetic flaws - light eyes, missing teeth etc. Things that affect breeding decisions. We must REFUSE to buy any doberman that is not c/d and we must not attend any shows or reg any litters. Start a new reg with the dogs we have now and say SCREW YOU IDC. I have preaced that is coming for several years. Many thought I was fanatical - Well yes I will admit to that and would glad wear it proudlly especiallly if it proved untrue BUT sadly all my fanatism is coming to haunt us.

WAY to many showed their complacency and ignorance by saying it is coming and accepting it. NEVER will I accept unreasonable governmental interference.

Doberman people around the world must stand up, unite and say NO MORE stupidity - We must say restore our correct standard or we will start a new reg and shows and SCREW YOU. We don't need organizations that don't understand their own program or traditions that were well founded in sound practices. WE have been fed the AR agenda that cropping/docking is cruel OMG it is done by vets under proper proceedures and conditons - Are we saying vets are cruel to do surgeries of any kind??? How can one surgery be acceptable and another minor proceedure not???

I wish every single American breeder and owner would write the IDC and tell them we will no longer attend your shows, buy your dogs or kiss you A____________ you have turned traitor.

Sorry for the rant - I sit here looking at my magnificant dogs with those very alert ears telling me every little sound that they might here and I can't imagine settling for some common looking dog. If you think looks aren't important - think about the houses we own - do we try to make them pretty???? Think about the cars we drive - If you can afford to drive a BMW you sure would not buy a chevy...........If fall in love you don't look for an ugly spouse - appearance is important. It is part of the image and image sells. Non descript and unidentifiable does not. It enhances their status as a working dog and as a noble electric compelling stature. It is their image - it is their legacy - it is the DOBERMANN - DOBERMAN as breed like no other and now we are hell bent on destroying it. I say put your foot down and throw out the idiots.

Ice how did the people who run IDC get their positions??? WHY won't someone stand up and get rid of them????

I swear every single year when the change the Schutzhund rules, move things around, etc with no real purpose that actually improves competiton I have questioned thier understanding of dogs at all so how did they get into their positions??

it will weed out those who do not appreciate the breed and hopefully in the end help the breed to get back to where it once was in regard to a WORKING dog had more to do with those that are involved in the breed for its "stronger look" = just cosmetics.

So if we fight for the standard we don't appreciate the breed???? WE ARE THE ONES trying to preserve the breed in it entirity NOT let the AR agenda chip away at it til there are no dogs left.

I have not seen it improve the breed or breeding one iota. There is way too much generalization and judgemental attitudes on some things that are just part of it.
You can do a stellare breeding by pedigree, dogs performance, titles and health and get bad stuff and you can do a less than stellar breeding and get fantastic dogs.

So how specifically do you see it getting us back to better breeding when we destroy the very thing that protect and guides our breeding decisions?
 
Ice how did the people who run IDC get their positions??? WHY won't someone stand up and get rid of them????

The man head of IDC is the same man who happens to be the head of German DV...Herr Hans Wiblishauser..

and its the German DV who has requested the standard change.......case lost for us.


I hope you guys over there do one better and not cave in to these idiots..
 
Sorry for the rant - I sit here looking at my magnificant dogs with those very alert ears telling me every little sound that they might here and I can't imagine settling for some common looking dog. If you think looks aren't important - think about the houses we own - do we try to make them pretty???? Think about the cars we drive - If you can afford to drive a BMW you sure would not buy a chevy...........If fall in love you don't look for an ugly spouse - appearance is important. It is part of the image and image sells. Non descript and unidentifiable does not. It enhances their status as a working dog and as a noble electric compelling stature. It is their image - it is their legacy - it is the DOBERMANN - DOBERMAN as breed like no other and now we are hell bent on destroying it. I say put your foot down and throw out the idiots.
I sat here thinking as I read
it will weed out those who do not appreciate the breed
and I thought, hmmm....I was on the fence. How would I feel? First off, I KNOW I am NOT one that does not appreciate the breed. Yes, the breed itself and all it represents is INside the dog, INside the breeding and the Doberman will always be a noble breed in my eyes. But all my life it was THAT AND the majestic look of the Doberman that owns my heart, alert ears and all!! THAT package is what I love and want.

Like, Suzan, I could sit here and cry to know that it may be taken away. That choice! You also have to remember that for me it was not until I joined all you Doberman lovers here on DCF that I even HEARD about the controversy!! To me, this was all so new and confusing! I grew up with a Doberman being recognized as this! doberman.jpg That is all I knew. And I'm an old lady, older than a lot of you here. lol When I joined here and started to get in on a thread about c/d I was like this. :eek::scratch: Really? There were those that opposed????? I couldn't believe it! But then accepted that there might be some pet people who choose not to Crop and maybe even dock. So be it. It's your dog. Do what you want. But when they start saying its a LAW. Omg. I couldn't believe that someone would do that to a breed. A standard! And now the IDC actually changes the standard!? I am appalled.
 
And now the IDC actually changes the standard!? I am appalled.


Lets get one thing right here...IDC is not the one changing the standard.. Breed standards are recognized and approved by the FCI.
The German DV has requested the standard change and this request has been accepted by the FCI..
IDC will be complying with this change..


Fédération Cynologique Internationale (FCI) is an international federation of kennel clubs based in Thuin, Belgium. The English language translation, World Canine Organisation

Dobermann-Verein e.V. is the German Doberman Club
 
Thank you for clearing that up, Iceman. I didn't know that part. So I put the blame on the FCI then. :)

Well, wait, it's the German DV that requested it? and they are?

Oh, nevermind........I see it now. Sorry.
 
For me that point is the loss of the cropped/docked look. There are only a few reasons to justify training differently or worrying about health issues and a short life span of the Dobermann. Much, if not most of what the Dobermann has to offer can be found in a GSD except for short hair and his regal, aristocratic appearance.

This is a great misunderstanding our our breed. They have some similiarities to several different breeds because they are the only breed that was formed from the genetic diversity of the hearing group, terrier group, sight hound etc. read the posting here on the predatory sequence and you wil have a much better understanding as to why they are NOT a German Shepherd in a Doberman suit. They think different, the approach thing differently and they are wired differently.
 
I grew up with a Doberman being recognized as this! View attachment 26075 That is all I knew. And I'm an old lady, older than a lot of you here. lol When I joined here and started to get in on a thread about c/d I was like this. :eek::scratch: Really? There were those that opposed????? I couldn't believe it! But then accepted that there might be some pet people who choose not to Crop and maybe even dock.

You don't have to be an old lady to remember not knowing what an undocked tail looked like... I remember just a few years back when none of us regulars on DCF knew what a natural tail looked like and I remember threads asking questions about how far the tan might go up a natural tail or what shape it might be. As DCF grew in international members, we learned that the tail usually goes over the back and that the tan goes quite a way up.

I can't understand why they would want to disqualify cosmetically altered dogs from competition... It's not like it's genetic or anything. Seems more like AR people trying to get everybody accustomed to seeing natural dogs so that they don't oppose a ban on the surgerie
 
The problem is the fact that so many people without a horse in the race have an opinion.. Making the odds against those of us for C/D astronomically in favor of those opposing C/D.. The question is why are those without a horse in the race even given a voice. Because it these people that make the odds so astronomically one sided and very misleading..
 
Organize organize the time is now.. Out with the old (weak) and in with the new.. Time for a new guardian..
 

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