Industrial breeding?

[JanS]

Holy cow, I came across this photo on FB and they said this is only half of the kennel. Someone actually commented on the guys photo saying "industrial breeding in an industrial setting" and they said "oh no, we just want to make their breeding quarters comfortable and cozy"....

Anyway I won't name names, but they come from your area Iceman. Are you familiar?
I can't deny that many of the dogs are really nice looking from looking at some of their other photos, but I just don't know how anyone could keep up with breeding that many dogs.

 

[Dobs4ever]

Jan in the days when animal husbandry was an everyd ay necessity to work and live with our animals the kennels were much larger often with 50 to 100 dogs. Guess what they had kennel help they usually have a full time trainer to make sure the dog were trained and cared for. Today PETA and HSUS have convinced everyone that they should only have one or two dogs. Guess what???? One of two dogs gives you now strength of pedigree because you are always having to look for a dog that compliments your program and still you do not KNOW that dog and its work ethic.

You honestly can't be a serious breeder with one or two dogs because you have no depth of pedigree, no intimate knowledge of what the lines produce and the consistency of the line, health issue or anything else. They ate drak and slept with their dogs and observed puppies from the same litter and from other litters to see how those puppies grew up and produced.

Today the word PUPPY MILL has everyone runninng scared and hence, everyone hates breeders. That facility looks clean and well kept. With proper help and trainers it could be a world class breeding program because you can breed right within your own complex. That is exactly how the breeders of not to long ago made theri stamp on their kennel name. You could look at a dog and tell who bred it not so today.

 

[JanS]

Excellent points Suzan!

 

[Dobs4ever]

Thanks but unfortunatley with PETA and HSUS they won't fly today. As we loose serious breeders you will see dogs that are all over the place - no consistency of quality and no strength of pedigree. It is hard today to find a stud dog that is prepotent and capable of reproducing himself in his puppies. Gone are the great kennels and the vast majority of great dogs.

 

[Denissov43]

Looks pretty up scale! I mean concrete with set in posts and space for more than one dog per kennel....
Could this be Altobello? I do not think its Betelges?

 

[Rits]

It looks really nice, my only question is...and I get that they hired people to handle them, give them attention etc....but we always say "dobermans are meant to be with their people" and should be "an inside dog." Doesn't this go against all of that? I do get everything else that was pointed out by Suzan and for some reason it doesn't make me question if it were any other breed.

 

[Suri&Simon]

It looks really nice, my only question is...and I get that they hired people to handle them, give them attention etc....but we always say "dobermans are meant to be with their people" and should be "an inside dog." Doesn't this go against all of that? I do get everything else that was pointed out by Suzan and for some reason it doesn't make me question if it were any other breed.

That's true... Dobermans does not like to be alone for example Suri wants to be with us all day, even if she is just laying on the floor near to me... It would be great if those dogs had a house to go at the end of the day

 

[JanS]

Looks pretty up scale! I mean concrete with set in posts and space for more than one dog per kennel....
Could this be Altobello? I do not think its Betelges?

Nope, this one is in Cyrpus.

 

[Dobs4ever]

Rits - I will see if I can answer this so it makes sense - PETA and HSUS have honestly convinced most of us that dogs need 24 / 7 attention. Why do we see so many neurotic Dogs??? Because along the way we have forgotten that they also need to learn to be secure when alone. NO one can guarantee for the lifetime of a dog that they will have 24/ 7 attention. So what you see is dogs that can't cope if the owner is not right there. They have not learned self confidence and become co-dependent.

For Pets and pet owners they do not make a good yard dogs and need to live inside with their families, but they also need to learn that they can function without 24/7 attention which is impossible to achieve. Most pet people do not give the correct training and mental stiumlation that a dog needs to be happy and secure.

PETA and HSUS have blurred the lines between a working kennel and pet puppies. They have convinced everyone that ALL dogs should be treated as humans ,but do you let your children go places without you, school, games etc??? Of course so why is it different for the dogs??? They need to learn to function on their own if you work them and show them. You must have a confident dog and if they are given the training and support then they are mentally strong and happy.

I have seen way too many neurotic dogs that are so anxious they can't function alone, but they are given all the attention that a dog could ever ask for, but are they happy???? If they are, then why are the unable to function when the owner has to leave them??? Why do we see so much separation anxiety?

Now I know nothing about this kennel set up. But I am just trying to get some folks to think about reality and see things from another side and a side that has had a lot of misinformation published. Not all kennels are bad - puppy mills certainly are a problem but they don't work, train or show their dogs. Just liek the BYB they just breed them and sometimes the breed the heck out of them. They are not the same as a professional breeder , regardless of how many dogs someone has - if they are all cared for and not bred to death then that is a far different situation than and puppy mill and PETA and HSUS have NOT made that distinction. This is why you can't set Numbers of dogs someone can own because you immediatley destroy the foundation of the gene pool.

They have convinced JQP ,who know nothing except the horror stories, that ALL breeders who have more than2 or 3 dogs are bad. I will tell you this - if they succeed in convincing everyone of this philosophy then you will see the purebred dog go down the tubes. You have to have sufficient gene pool to work with to keep a breed healthy and vibrant. If breeders can only have one litter every year or so the gene pool will die.

I have posted this before but will post it here again - and this is based on having 2 litters a year ONLY and assuming you don't breed the dogs til they are at least 2 years of age so basic health testing can be done and you stop breeding at 5 years. Dogs live to 10 +

So you have to have 2 bitches breeding age - You have 2 retired bitches - and you need 2 young bitches coming on and a stud dog - count it up - and this is just a very very small breeding program, no where near a puppy mill but again PETA and HSUS make no distinction - they have convinced everyone that no one should have more than one or two litters a year and that is probably true if you don't have a large kennel with kennel help. I could not handle more than 2 litters a year by myself but that does not make it wrong for someone else as long as the dogs are well kept and provided for. In the old days Dobermans lived very well in kennels of up to 100 dogs but it was a livelyhood. They had full time kennel staff and trainers so the dogs had the mental stimulation they needed to be happy and content without being neurotic.

I hope this is helpful and will get some people to thinking about the deliema we are facing and the propaganda that PETA and HSUS are shoving down our throats with every million dollar commercial they run.

 

[Rits]

Thank you for taking the time to explain. It makes sense having a giant selection of dogs at hand and as long as they have enough staff to give them the stimulation and exercise they need, then I can see it's good. I wholeheartedly agree that a stable dog should be able to learn to be away from it's owner, handled by others, and able to cope being apart. It's sad to see a mess of a dog that's stressed when they are away from their owners and I've seen that a lot in the boarding situation when people go on vacation or have an emergency where they need their dogs taken care of while they are tending matters.

 

[Dobs4ever]

It's sad to see a mess of a dog that's stressed when they are away from their owners and I've seen that a lot in the boarding situation when people go on vacation or have an emergency where they need their dogs taken care of while they are tending matters{/QUOTE]

Exactly Rits the point I was trying to make - It is the same if you have someone send a bitch in to be bred and they freak out. No used to a crate, not used to being without their family and it is the same thing with many pet people who have 2 dogs - they let the dogs entertain each other - they are always together and when something happens to one the other almost dies from the trauma of the loss.

At Nationals this past week I gave Helio off to several people and had them take him off. I do not want him looking for me and whining and worrying. If he is with someone else I want him to learn that he does not need me. BELIEVE you me I do not worry about him not knowing that I am his and he is mine. We are bonded and I am not so insecure that I think he has to just dote on me. I want him confident and happy.

Paint took him off for a while and went away from us. She can tell you how he acted as I don't know I was not there. Paint was he worried about where I was??? Or did he adjust and follow you???

 

[GennyB]

Nope not for a minute. You would have thought that I was D4E walking him. He was relaxed yet alert to everything that was going on around him. He is a funny boy, he is so big and still squats. I had to laugh when he did because his ears were posted and here is this big boy squatting. When I laughed he jumped up on me and gave me this nudge like he was telling me to quit laughing.

 

[Denissov43]

Nope, this one is in Cyrpus.

that is a really large very upscale operation. No one would invest that kind of money into that kind of an operation who could not 'afford' adequate staff and handlers as well as everything else that goes along with that large of an operation. This is like a "Kimbertal" kind of operation in Greece... Kimbertal for all their bad press has been successfully breeding Dobermans on a grand scale like this for four decades or more.
could it be Vassilis of Horamas kennels? or it could be Dei Due Intente? both are quite well known and have lovely dogs.