When to introduce a prong collar?

[MichiH]

It's not too bad. I'm not sure why you should be getting hair rubbed out. Except there are dogs with allergies to metals. HS makes a non-allergenic one. Haha, it's only money.

I have exactly the same problem. And if I'm training, not just walking, she gets amped up for the ball and her neck swells up and it's really tight. But I've never seen any hair loss or skin marks. 4+ years now, almost daily she wears it training or if we go to town. If we hike I use the e-collar because I'm off leash.

Exactly, more money haha. I just put the rubber ends on her prong this week in hopes it would help the hair loss.

Makes me feel better about placement thank you.

Maybe that’s also making not as noticeable to her? I guess I should get her the hypoallergenic one

She’s got some areas under her neck where she is rust colored you can see the prong marks and skin showing. Which I don’t understand either it’s not on too long, it is on daily, and she does itch though when it’s on even with rubber ends on it.

 

[Ravenbird]

and she does itch though when it’s on even with rubber ends on it.

I think they all scratch at it just because it's a distracting pokey feeling. Mine scratches at it if she's just hanging out with it on, but not while on a walk or training (her mind is occupied with more important things).

 

[remy]

@MichiH Does she ever scratch at the collar? Remy tends to do that to his and it did cause a little bit of hair loss/thinning like you described. Even though it was properly placed and never worn for long periods of time, the itching obviously caused the collar to shift a bit and thus is irritates the skin. This was last fall and it’s fine now (all hair has grown back).

I tried the HS collar that is supposed to be better for dog’s with metal allergies just incase that was causing the itching, but he still itched so I went back to his black collar and added the rubber tips. I do think it makes the collar slightly less effective though.

 

[Ddski5]

I think the new environment is also causing the pulling too and I have let her trespass more often because all I am doing is correcting her non stop.

Yes. Very common and normal to become distracted and lose focus on you.
Solution: age, training, experience. More new places and experiences when at home under your control and constraints.

What @Cferg said….
What @Ravenbird said….

You are prob not correcting hard enough to make her focus on you rather the distraction. You are not going to hurt her. Better to correct hard 2-3x if necessary rather than nag 10-15x.

But when you do correct hard, you have to be consistent with expectations thenceforth. I would go back to short leash 6’ training and reinforce the heel. I wouldn’t have the prong on anything longer than that, too uncontrollable and then the prong is losing its psychological effectiveness. Go back to prong heel training and cement that down, then once that’s down I teach a command of “close” but not far which allows her to release from heel to about 6’ out but no further. (Freyja was easy with this- Ragnar was not)- I gave Rag too much freedom in his younger years which made him want to go….

At 11months, she is getting close of it all coming together. I will never forget my frustrations and doom feeling when Ragnar would just be an asshat and not listen. I kept working with him and at about 13months it clicked with him and all came together.

You have good things coming. Keep working.

 

[MichiH]

I think they all scratch at it just because it's a distracting pokey feeling. Mine scratches at it if she's just hanging out with it on, but not while on a walk or training (her mind is occupied with more important things).

So we walked today before we left and she was wonderful. I had kibble too, but she stayed with me. Hoping last night was a reminder and I’ll also stick to it.

Although, not sure what’s up with the marks on her neck. Hoping it goes away since I have the rubber ends on.


Thank you!!!

We also saw a dead raccoon this am on our walk think it messed us both up

 

[remy]

oops, I missed that you already talked about her itching it lol.

 

[Rama the protector]

Not sure if you mentioned for how long you leave it on. I have been using the Herm Sprenger 2.2 in the curagan material which is supposed to be more hypoallergenic for dogs that have sensitive skin. I started using it when he was 7 months. No corrections. Just light pressure so he repositions. It’s been a very helpful tool. I put it on right by the door before we go out and take it off as soon as we walk back inside. It’s also a good idea to connect it to a regular flat collar as they can break apart. Good luck.

 

[MichiH]

Yes. Very common and normal to become distracted and lose focus on you.
Solution: age, training, experience. More new places and experiences when at home under your control and constraints.

What @Cferg said….
What @Ravenbird said….

You are prob not correcting hard enough to make her focus on you rather the distraction. You are not going to hurt her. Better to correct hard 2-3x if necessary rather than nag 10-15x.

But when you do correct hard, you have to be consistent with expectations thenceforth. I would go back to short leash 6’ training and reinforce the heel. I wouldn’t have the prong on anything longer than that, too uncontrollable and then the prong is losing its psychological effectiveness. Go back to prong heel training and cement that down, then once that’s down I teach a command of “close” but not far which allows her to release from heel to about 6’ out but no further. (Freyja was easy with this- Ragnar was not)- I gave Rag too much freedom in his younger years which made him want to go….

At 11months, she is getting close of it all coming together. I will never forget my frustrations and doom feeling when Ragnar would just be an asshat and not listen. I kept working with him and at about 13months it clicked with him and all came together.

You have good things coming. Keep working.

Great video thanks for sharing!

 

[MichiH]

Back home this week and have been taking her morning kibble on our morning walks. Big improvement and a few corrections with a verbal cue WALK, and she’s doing really well.
When gets too ahead and before leash gets taunt I remind her to WALK and she slows herself down.
Thanks all!
Also, her neck looks better a little worn in the rust under her neck. I have the rubber tips on and hoping those will continue to help.

 

[MichiH]

Back home this week and have been taking her morning kibble on our morning walks. Big improvement and a few corrections with a verbal cue WALK, and she’s doing really well.
When gets too ahead and before leash gets taunt I remind her to WALK and she slows herself down.
Thanks all!
Also, her neck looks better a little worn in the rust under her neck. I have the rubber tips on and hoping those will continue to help.

Some errors in my writing sorry! I hate that

 

[Ravenbird]

Some errors in my writing sorry! I hate that

If you catch it fairly quickly there is an edit button and you can fix it. When done, just click "save". I don't remember the time frame, but after a bit the edit button goes away so you can change it.

 

[MichiH]

If you catch it fairly quickly there is an edit button and you can fix it. When done, just click "save". I don't remember the time frame, but after a bit the edit button goes away so you can change it.

I missed the window and I go back and read it later duh me

 

[Ddski5]

I missed the window and I go back and read it later duh me

I do the same thing. I believe some folks think I am illiterate. Haha.

 

[MichiH]

I do the same thing. I believe some folks think I am illiterate. Haha.

Haha I believe they think that about me as well

 

[Joel3322]

Just wanted to give my take.... and that is like with any collar, it is all about the person on the other end of the leash..... and correcting the dog when he is rational. If the dog is rational, the corrections are going to be minimal. If the dog is already reactive, and you are going to start correcting with ANY collar, that is a huge problem. Most collars will NOT work, and especially prong collars, because of the way they are made with the prongs. When a dog is very reactive, these collars can even be a hindrance. But when teaching a dog to work with prong collars, and understanding the collar, they can be very effective. That is why a long time ago, I preferred "chain collars", until 11 years ago when I patented the Alternative Training Collar. With respect to the owners of this forum, I will not post a link. I am just explaining to people that with whatever collar you choose to work with, you need to start working with reactivity in a place where your dog is rational about the distraction. If you are not starting there, you are going to have problems.

 

[Rama the protector]

I started using the prong on Rama when he was 7 months and not reactive. To get him use to not pulling. He would self correct. I encourage people to create good behavior before having to correct bad behavior. I had never used a prong until this dog. On this forum some posted recommendations which were very helpful. Today at 15 months he, (knock on wood) never pulls me. Never. Will he one day? Who knows. For now I continue to preempt any future events by exposing him to many situations and not allowing him to do anything I won’t allow later. It may have been on this forum that I read “never let a puppy do something you wouldn’t want an adult dog to do”. Noted and noteworthy!