When to introduce a prong collar?

[remy]

If you use a prong collar, at what age did you introduce it to your dog? Remy will be 7 months old next week. I am debating introducing him to a prong collar sometime in the next few months (mostly because I want to see how far we can go before using one.)

This would be my first time using a prong, so any advice is welcome! I plan to buy a Hermsprenger.

My biggest goal for him is loose leash walking, especially since he will be going hiking with me. It’s something we practice everyday. How well he walks depends on his motivation at that time and the amount of distractions, which I’m sure is typical for most young puppies and dogs lol. When he does pull he isn’t phased at all by his flat collar, and it make me nervous that it could be hurting his throat. I am thinking a prong might be better since it would be more of a self correction for him.

This is how I’m currently training loose leash walking, feel free to add any other tips! Anytime he’s on a leash I make sure to have some treats with me. He is very food motivated and I want to reward when he’s doing good. I’ll also use it to lure if I need to get his attention. If he pulls I will stop walking, he is learning to come back on his own when I do that, and I’ll reward once he does. If he stays near me I will tell him “yes” and reward now and then. I gave treats a lot more in the beginning, but I give a bit less now that he’s getting the hang of it. I don’t mind if he isn’t right on my side, as long as he isn’t pulling it’s good enough for me. So when he gets towards the end of the leash I’ll call him back. 9 times out of 10 he’ll go to my side so I’ll give a treat. He walks better in more of a heel position. Once he gets a few feet out on the leash is when he starts to pull more.

 

[Ravenbird]

Mine was by necessity by around 6 months old. I think your Remy is a better natured dog in general. Basically the fit needs to be snug and HIGH up on the neck, not hanging loose on the base of the neck. You need to make a decision on if you're hiking and just want "no pulling" or if you want a heel. I personally don't want a heel when hiking, because the hike is more for the dog than for me. But if we have to be on leash on a hike, I use a 10' leash and let my dog go wherever she wants as long as she never leans on the leash. The prong will self correct her and if she leans or pulls for any reason I just use a small leash pop and it backs her right up. Hiking to me is a break from training, so I don't try to "train", I just use some reminders.

If you are going to use the prong for heeling that's a different topic. These are life-saving collars for the human end of the leash with hard relentless pullers (ahem.). If you have anywhere you can hike off leash it's a great start before an intro to an e-collar. E-collars are just a prong collar with no leash needed.

Herm Sprenger makes the prong in black, which is what I chose.

 

[Cferg]

If you use a prong collar, at what age did you introduce it to your dog? Remy will be 7 months old next week. I am debating introducing him to a prong collar sometime in the next few months (mostly because I want to see how far we can go before using one.)

This would be my first time using a prong, so any advice is welcome! I plan to buy a Hermsprenger.

My biggest goal for him is loose leash walking, especially since he will be going hiking with me. It’s something we practice everyday. How well he walks depends on his motivation at that time and the amount of distractions, which I’m sure is typical for most young puppies and dogs lol. When he does pull he isn’t phased at all by his flat collar, and it make me nervous that it could be hurting his throat. I am thinking a prong might be better since it would be more of a self correction for him.

This is how I’m currently training loose leash walking, feel free to add any other tips! Anytime he’s on a leash I make sure to have some treats with me. He is very food motivated and I want to reward when he’s doing good. I’ll also use it to lure if I need to get his attention. If he pulls I will stop walking, he is learning to come back on his own when I do that, and I’ll reward once he does. If he stays near me I will tell him “yes” and reward now and then. I gave treats a lot more in the beginning, but I give a bit less now that he’s getting the hang of it. I don’t mind if he isn’t right on my side, as long as he isn’t pulling it’s good enough for me. So when he gets towards the end of the leash I’ll call him back. 9 times out of 10 he’ll go to my side so I’ll give a treat. He walks better in more of a heel position. Once he gets a few feet out on the leash is when he starts to pull more.

Have you introduced corrections on the flat collar yet? And also I wouldn’t call him back to heel position, stop walking whenever he is not exactly where you want him. Then don’t walk again till he’s in the desired position then reward. Rinse and repeat as needed. Do these walks alone. Adding any other variables besides you two adds difficulty for your dog.

 

[remy]

Mine was by necessity by around 6 months old. I think your Remy is a better natured dog in general. Basically the fit needs to be snug and HIGH up on the neck, not hanging loose on the base of the neck. You need to make a decision on if you're hiking and just want "no pulling" or if you want a heel. I personally don't want a heel when hiking, because the hike is more for the dog than for me. But if we have to be on leash on a hike, I use a 10' leash and let my dog go wherever she wants as long as she never leans on the leash. The prong will self correct her and if she leans or pulls for any reason I just use a small leash pop and it backs her right up. Hiking to me is a break from training, so I don't try to "train", I just use some reminders.

If you are going to use the prong for heeling that's a different topic. These are life-saving collars for the human end of the leash with hard relentless pullers (ahem.). If you have anywhere you can hike off leash it's a great start before an intro to an e-collar. E-collars are just a prong collar with no leash needed.

Herm Sprenger makes the prong in black, which is what I chose.

I guess the goal would change based on the environment. For example, just walking without pulling is fine when walking on wide trails or in the field. For crowed areas or narrow trails I would need him to be more in a heel position. Once I start taking him on more difficult trails, I think I may need to use a harness instead as a safety precaution. Many of those trails are narrow and have steep drop offs in spots. Hopefully it never happens, but if he were to slip I feel it would be a like safer for him to have a harness on, rather than me trying to pull him on a collar on any kind.

 

[remy]

Have you introduced corrections on the flat collar yet? And also I wouldn’t call him back to heel position, stop walking whenever he is not exactly where you want him. Then don’t walk again till he’s in the desired position then reward. Rinse and repeat as needed. Do these walks alone. Adding any other variables besides you two adds difficulty for your dog.

The majority of our walks are just him and I in the field or on the road. I have done some corrections with the collar and they do typically work. The problem is when he’s pulling it’s usually because he sped up quickly, leaving no slack in the leash to really make the correction effective. That’s why when he gets close to the end I would say “ah” to get him to come back.

 

[Kswoodssue]

At home we are making headway with the heel position. Sasha will immediately glue her head to my left thigh for the right treat, but at home the distractions are few. In public, and because she is not incredibly food motivated, she is still too easily distracted. I explain to people who are horrified by the prong, that it is for her safety. This is very true. I know that I can hold her with the prong. I can keep her from running into a dangerous situation. My job, as a dog owner, is not to prove to the world that my dog can heel unleashed. My job is to control my dog. I like to hold the loop feature of the prong when in large crowds and close quarters. I reinforce with the heel command and keep her close that way. She is quite collar savvy, and settles immediately in that position. We love her so much, but she is a handful. The prong is a great tool.

 

[Unityspirit]

As I am into gentle training I never use shock or prong collars. I use a head halter. yes you can hurt if a dog if not understanding proper use of it. If you don't run it with the collar as well you can hurt there neck if suddenly jerked around. Im only sharing what I do not being critical of how others do theres.. I run it also through her collar as well. My Athena before Kira would never pull and walked nicely beside me. Dogs go where there head is pointed. I always think what I would want done to me before I do it to my dog so no pain will go towards my training my girl.. Photo is stock footage of a dog wearing one.

 

[Ddski5]

Doing stops, 360’s and flat collar popping just didn’t work for me. Started both of mine with the prong at 7months and it was a game changer. Went from pulling and distracted to loose leash looking at me for guidance- just have to know how and when to use it. @Tropicalbri's had a good analogy for the prong collar- it was like going from manual steering on a car to new technology power steering.

It was also a major tool that I used to break dog reactiveness with Ragnar.

Very funny thing with the prong and ECollar. Anytime I would pick it up off the counter both Ragnar and Freyja would get excited because they new we were going somewhere to train.

 

[ginaewing70!]

If you use a prong collar, at what age did you introduce it to your dog? Remy will be 7 months old next week. I am debating introducing him to a prong collar sometime in the next few months (mostly because I want to see how far we can go before using one.)

This would be my first time using a prong, so any advice is welcome! I plan to buy a Hermsprenger.

My biggest goal for him is loose leash walking, especially since he will be going hiking with me. It’s something we practice everyday. How well he walks depends on his motivation at that time and the amount of distractions, which I’m sure is typical for most young puppies and dogs lol. When he does pull he isn’t phased at all by his flat collar, and it make me nervous that it could be hurting his throat. I am thinking a prong might be better since it would be more of a self correction for him.

This is how I’m currently training loose leash walking, feel free to add any other tips! Anytime he’s on a leash I make sure to have some treats with me. He is very food motivated and I want to reward when he’s doing good. I’ll also use it to lure if I need to get his attention. If he pulls I will stop walking, he is learning to come back on his own when I do that, and I’ll reward once he does. If he stays near me I will tell him “yes” and reward now and then. I gave treats a lot more in the beginning, but I give a bit less now that he’s getting the hang of it. I don’t mind if he isn’t right on my side, as long as he isn’t pulling it’s good enough for me. So when he gets towards the end of the leash I’ll call him back. 9 times out of 10 he’ll go to my side so I’ll give a treat. He walks better in more of a heel position. Once he gets a few feet out on the leash is when he starts to pull more.

Depending on what type of pronged coller to use but I don't like those chrome ones cause they can hurt your dog. I use the black plastic type of pronged coller.

 

[Cferg]

Depending on what type of pronged coller to use but I don't like those chrome ones cause they can hurt your dog. I use the black plastic type of pronged coller.

What injuries have you personally seen from a metal prong collar?

 

[CRDobe]

A properly fitted and used prong collar will not injure the dog. Choke chains can and also the Halti head type harness has the potential of injuring the neck.

 

[LifeofRubie]

Second that the herm sprenger prong collars are the best out there. We use the 2.25mm for our Dobe. Is that the same size you use @Ravenbird and @Ddski5 ?

 

[Cferg]

Second that the herm sprenger prong collars are the best out there. We use the 2.25mm for our Dobe. Is that the same size you use @Ravenbird and @Ddski5 ?

Same here

 

[Cferg]

The majority of our walks are just him and I in the field or on the road. I have done some corrections with the collar and they do typically work. The problem is when he’s pulling it’s usually because he sped up quickly, leaving no slack in the leash to really make the correction effective. That’s why when he gets close to the end I would say “ah” to get him to come back.

If you aren’t looking for an exact position of the dog, and more to just not having the dog pull. The prong will self correct the dog and do exactly what you’re looking for it to do. With minimal introduction or behavior

 

[JanS]

I agree they need to be at least 6 months old. We also have the Herm Sprenger's 2.25".

So far I've just been using the flat collar or slip lead on Elroy but I do want to introduce him to the prong for certain situations. Yesterday at the show with wall to wall dogs the flat collar wasn't cutting it since there was barely room to maneuver around people and dogs so I switched him to the slip lead.

 

[Kaiser2016]

These are life-saving collars for the human end of the leash with hard relentless pullers (ahem.)

Relentless!

I guess the goal would change based on the environment.

For ease of training, I would initially have a goal. Is the walk for the dog or for you? If the dog wants to sniff and he’s urgent to get to the next spot you will have to correct for that. However if you decide the walks are for you and he’s not allowed to sniff, then the picture changes.

My job, as a dog owner, is not to prove to the world that my dog can heel unleashed. My job is to control my dog.

Exactly!

We love her so much, but she is a handful.

I know the feeling!

As I am into gentle training I never use shock or prong collars. I use a head halter.

Ya I tried this approach too and if you could make it work, that is great! I have a vast collection of every type of no pull harness, collar, even the head halter. Maybe it is easier for people with more Doberman experience and a more biddable dog, but we definitely couldn’t make it work. I was quite confident we wouldn’t need an eCollar either but at age 3 we knew he was too head strong (plus not neutered) to be without it. The amazing development is that around age 5-6, we hardly ever had to shock him. He’s totally collar wise.

Very funny thing with the prong and ECollar. Anytime I would pick it up off the counter both Ragnar and Freyja would get excited because they new we were going somewhere to train.

Same!

Depending on what type of pronged coller to use but I don't like those chrome ones cause they can hurt your dog. I use the black plastic type of pronged coller

I agree with the others about HS brand. We have the chrome one which is great. Someone had mentioned on an old thread that they came across some prongs that had sharpened ends and I wonder if that’s what you may have seen. The ends should never ever be sharp and HS does not sell any such item. They do however have a more discreet prong style that I like to use called the neck tech. The black also “hides” nicely against their black fur.

 

[Ravenbird]

@Kaiser2016 - every individual answer you gave is 100% true!

 

[Rits]

Once you feel he has a firm understanding of what you want with no distractions, you can add corrections. The way I did it with Ripley was add a prong with a pull tab. Also had her normal collar on. Change the environment (backyard to frontyard) or add low level distractions. Heel short duration. Correct for any out of place. Reward heavily for correct position (and the only way she could get reward was by being beside me so it was rewarding in of itself). End session. Play, play, play! Rinse and repeat for 3 repetitions. End lesson and go home. Practice again another day, maybe same location and add longer duration. Play can get you very far and through a lot of distractions. If you do this right, they start expecting play when they see a distraction!

Having both the prong collar on and her flat collar helped me fade the prong out entirely because I'd work her on the flat, but could still reach her if needed. I still use the prong in high distracting areas when I want ultimate control, no sense in losing all the hard work I've put into her. For example, Ripley had never been to the beach and it was a weekend day when we went so she wore her prong as a JUST IN CASE, so I could correct her if needed. Then it usually only takes one good correction and she goes "oh right, I'm not supposed to do that." Making correct position more rewarding and desirable, and incorrect position not desirable, makes the training hold up! The picture becomes black and white for the dog.

We can't use prongs anywhere on the grounds for AKC shows so learning how to loose leash walk (not heel) without a prong was high priority. Then of course can't use any corrections in an obedience trial but that is usually no more than 5 minutes...maybe 10 since you warm up before your turn. When there isn't much space between people and dogs, I have her on a slip lead and hold her close to me. Once we get in the open I release her with "free" where she can use all of her leash, but she isn't allowed to pull. We don't go anywhere if she pulls when she has all of her leash. This took a lot of work to teach and every moment on the leash is still a lesson. If I ever let her win by walking forward when she pulls, it will make the next time that much harder because I now just rewarded pulling = she gets where she wants to go which is forward!

It takes a lot of repetition and getting out there, gradually increasing duration and distractions, to get there. Heeling and loose leash walking is the honestly the hardest thing to teach... its a bit unnatural to a dog. It is a lifelong skill! You will always be reinforcing this behavior (good or bad) because well, anywhere you go with your dog you are probably walking your dog! Every dog is different. Some require more patience and more repetitions than others. We're talking years of work. Ripley was harder... where Revel responds really well to leash pressure. I taught him just like Remy. He doesn't need a prong unless the area is super distracting. He started wearing it around 9 months. If you can take the time to teach them what you want largely through play and reward, and build them up by gradually adding durations and distractions, it'll be SO satisfying in the end! Not everyone has time for this. Sometimes you do need to just get from point A to point B so a prong is a very valuable tool in doing so without losing what you've trained.

 

[Ravenbird]

Great detail in working it all out, @Rits!

 

[remy]

Now that I came here to update, I see that I’ve missed a lot of your responses! Sorry about that!

We’ve been using the prong collar for almost 2 months now. It is going really well! He is using the black 2.25 Herm Sprenger. Now that the weather is nicer we are able to take longer walks, so he’s wearing the collar for 1 to 2 hours a day.

However, after 2-3 weeks of using it I noticed he started to itch at the collar a lot. Since he still had hives at this time I assumed maybe now that was causing him to itch. (He had hives for 5-6 weeks before using the prong btw.) I paid close attention to when/where he would itch, and he only itches when he has the prong collar on (could be inside a store or outside on the road, in the field, etc.) For whatever reason 95% of the time he is itching at the left side.

When the itching started his neck looked like it would get some dandruff. Again, I assumed this was related to his skin and the hives as the base of his tail also had dandruff then. Now he still has the dandruff (on the neck) but the left side of his neck feels a little bumpy and the “flakes” are bigger. I was really able to notice it yesterday while we took some picture out in the sunlight.

When I look up prong collar irritation I can’t find anything that looks like his neck. They are all either dogs with bright red, rubbed raw necks or with bloody open wounds. None of which he has. It’s just sort of bumpy and flaky dry skin I guess?

So, my questions are is itching with the prong on normal? Should I stop using it for awhile? Try rubber tips? Anything I can do to help his neck?

I’ll add a couple zoomed in pictures from yesterday so you can see how it looks.