Kind of interesting. I know I don't have what it takes for a Malinois.
What Sets Apart Dobermans And Malinois
- Thread starter JanS
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Too much left unsaid here about both breeds! "The Doberman Pinscher can live indoors or out" should never be put in print for the public. Grrr.
And working line Dobermans require every single bit of what a Mal needs in ways of exercise and training, high obedience and training. The show/pet line Dobes are much easier to live with and don't have the intensity and drive of the working dogs (Dobe or Mal).
And working line Dobermans require every single bit of what a Mal needs in ways of exercise and training, high obedience and training. The show/pet line Dobes are much easier to live with and don't have the intensity and drive of the working dogs (Dobe or Mal).
Cferg
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I agree the margins of the spectrum of drive on both breeds is getting further apart. I know for sure on the Mals, I see Mals from time to time out in public that aren’t switched on at all. Even in a stimulating environment they are completely calm. But we’ve all seen the sport Mal nutjobs so they are out there also.
And for Dobes I haven’t met or saw one in person that is even close to being as alert and switched on as my dog. Even the way most Dobes I see move is distinctly different from Stassi. I know they’re out there I’m just not running into them.
DracoDobie
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Draco has the as much drive a Mal does, even higher!
We are usually around a lot of mals as they've become rather popular here, and they can't keep up with him. They gas out faster and easier than Draco, wether it be play fighting, running, or doing OB; and are huge scaredy cats (like most dobies I've met) of course there are some exceptions, but the way social media is portraying Mals lately is not that accurate imho. Yeah, they are hard work and not suitable for every owner, but so are Dobermanns.
They're both working breeds, and if you get a WL Dobermann, you'll quickly see the difference. Plus they are usually taller/heavier which makes them it a bit more difficult to handle.
And what is that bs that Dobermanns can live outside? ABSOLUTELY NOT. PERIOD.
Draco has had a few fights with out of control and psychotic mals before, they wanted to dominate him, bully him even, and he wouldn't have it, so they'd go for him. Now let me say, not even ONCE has he lost a fight against a Mal, male or female, doesn't matter. Always left unscathered, never hurt the Mal, only gave it a lesson "Don't mess with me next time or I'll be serious" and never did they mess with him again.
Working Dobermanns are beasts too, and aren't ones to be messed with. I'm tired of people downplaying Dobermanns all the time, it's getting old and annoying right?
jazzies mum
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I know Jazz is a mix but I do agree that it seems to be the dogs genetics that has most influence. I chose Jazz on a visit with all the puppies. Didn't ask the owners what character each pup had. Later when I viewed all the videos of the pups together guess who was the sassy top dog? Jazz turned out to be perfect for me but she was a wild child and willful, and was from her first breath!
Another funny short reel difference between Dobe & Mal
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Cferg
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Honestly stassi looks more like the mal. Stassi will bite and nip when too worked up in the pool I don’t know how she would react swimming with another dog. Also she swims so well I feel pretty confident if I didn’t supervise she would drown the other dog. Especially in a lake and pond or a pool with few steps.Another funny short reel difference between Dobe & Mal
2.7M views · 412K reactions | When people ask me what’s the difference between my Doberman vs my Malinois🤣 . . . #doberman #malinois #dog | Celine Tran + Her Hellhounds
When people ask me what’s the difference between my Doberman vs my Malinois🤣 . . . #doberman #malinois #dog
That's because yours is not typical Dobe!
Asha did this pretty bad her first couple of years but has gotten better. If I have a ball she will circle unless I tell her to fuss or stay... If I don't give her a command she will spin madly until I throw it. if it's her and Reckless and a ball is thrown she'll run over Reckless and get it first. Did you see the video clip I posted of Reckless's 10th birthday, I had to tell Asha to go place because she got too pushy for the noise maker. But without Asha around, Reckless (Dutch with Mal down her lines) is non-stop spinning or jumping for a toy.
Cferg
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I was at the local coffe shop of our mountain cabin yesterday. We were outside on the patio waiting for our drinks. There was a younger woman with a mal waiting also. I saw she had a hermspringer prong on the dog but the rest of the equipment just looked like petsmart collar and leash setup(plastic buckles).
I observed the dog for the first 10 minutes we were there. He was very neutral and could care less about the people or the other dogs barking. Even when the lady got up to use the restroom the dog barely picked his head up, he didn’t watch her to see where she was going or look for her when she left. She didn’t have to put him in a down or tell him to stay. He just didn’t move because he didn’t want to, the leash wasn’t even tied to anything he just stayed. When she got back I asked how old he was. She told me he was 3 and she’s had him since a pup. I made the statement he’s very laidback. She replied it’s all in how you train them and told me she trained him as a puppy alot. I was polite and complimented her on that but added I could tell his baseline is very “chill”. She seemed almost offended and replied that she had took him on a 8 mile hike the day before and he was tired.
I guess in the same way the sweet and social dobe owners I meet have to tell me how protective their dogs. When I remark about their dogs sociability. I guess Mal owners also try to put something in their dogs that isn’t there to keep everyone’s preconceived notions in place.
I observed the dog for the first 10 minutes we were there. He was very neutral and could care less about the people or the other dogs barking. Even when the lady got up to use the restroom the dog barely picked his head up, he didn’t watch her to see where she was going or look for her when she left. She didn’t have to put him in a down or tell him to stay. He just didn’t move because he didn’t want to, the leash wasn’t even tied to anything he just stayed. When she got back I asked how old he was. She told me he was 3 and she’s had him since a pup. I made the statement he’s very laidback. She replied it’s all in how you train them and told me she trained him as a puppy alot. I was polite and complimented her on that but added I could tell his baseline is very “chill”. She seemed almost offended and replied that she had took him on a 8 mile hike the day before and he was tired.
I guess in the same way the sweet and social dobe owners I meet have to tell me how protective their dogs. When I remark about their dogs sociability. I guess Mal owners also try to put something in their dogs that isn’t there to keep everyone’s preconceived notions in place.
Mals are now a popular dog to own & AKC show lines have developed less intense attitudes, but still could be an intense sport dog or do IGP. It still takes a lot of training for any breed to be chill at an outdoor cafe. Even though Reckless is a Dutch, and they are known to have a better off switch than their Mal cousins, she can get absolutely bonkers when in drive in bite work or fast cat to the point that she will come up the leash at the handler in argument and will bite in frustration. But she would do exactly what that Mal did if we went to a patio restaurant. She is 100% neutral to dogs, strangers, new place, noises etc. and has been since a youngster, she could not care less. She's only wild in prey drive. Their mindset is nothing like a Doberman and their protective outlook is much different. All her lines are working dogs and her sire was French Ring 3 which is one of the toughest tests of nerve.
You probably read that dog correctly, but just saying, I wouldn't judge a book by its cover. And its the other reason I hold titles in high esteem when looking for a certain type of dog.
Cferg
Notable member
I’m not saying the dog wasn’t trained. Just that the state of mind the dog was in wasn’t far off from its genetic baseline.
You live with both dogs. Which one is “easier” to live with? The one that you have to turn on or the one that came switched on over everything from the factory?
My BIL is a sheriff’s deputy and his mal K9 partner just retired. That dog had multiple live bite apprehensions, drug finds and was a member of the swat team. It also was the local k9 demo for schools. The dog has the drive to do the work. But at home the dog can safely play fetch with 3-4 year old children. And could do this from the day he brought him home after handler school it wasn’t trained it’s just the kind of dog he is. Would you describe this dog as easy? I do because I’ve interacted with this dog in situations. And also because I’ve lived with Stassi. And see how much work and constant management, vigilance Stassi requires.
I know they’re are wild working dogs out there. Actually there was a local k9 in the news that would pertain to this discussion. Should I post here or start a new thread?
I think if we keep comparing Mals to Dobes it still fits the subject here. Unless the K9 in the news wasn't a Mal or Dobe. I still want to see the story
This exactly what I was referring to. What was different about the Mal at the cafe that made you think he didn't have the inner drive that the K9 did, when they both acted about the same when "not working". I'm truely interested in what you were seeing, not arguing. I have seen GSDs, Dobes and other breeds that didn't have that "sparkle" in their eye and I could just "tell". Is that what you were seeing?
On the other hand, my dog (and your dog, I think) are "too much dog" to gently play fetch with a small child. Mine isn't about to bite a child, but wouldn't have thought anything about bulldozing them down to get to the ball. And at the cafe, it's a down stay on a mat, but all eyes and ears watching all the movements. She's done it enough now that it's all good, but the first few times were not easy for any of us.
I call it too much suspicion: everyone is a bad guy and needs to be told to stay back. Now she's trained and knows better, but the thoughts are still going on in her head. The Dutch loves everyone until it's game time, then she's all in to win. I don't personally know that many Mals, but the ones I do are pretty much like that. Except one, that one was finally was donated to a Police Dept. by the owner because it was too over the top for sports.I totally agree with you and knew you were referring the dogs genetic base. And because you are pretty sharp reading dogs, you are most likely correct. I just wanted to say that Reckless would appear the same as this non-chalant Mal, but if you saw her in action, especially in her younger years at a SchH club, she was all business on the field. Off the field, there was no reason to be keyed into every little thing. Just no anxiety about anything.
Reckless was a pretty had puppy the first couple of years, but once she got her basics she was pretty solid. I'd say about age 2. Except when going to bite work or fast cat. And the one time she did intro to barn hunt and almost shook the rat to death in the tube, slung the tube 20 feet in the air. Thankfully everyone was laughing, (the rat was fine) but some people would have been horrified. They quickly decided that she should not do Barn Hunt.
Asha on the other hand is trained to behave, does what she's told 98% of the time, but still challenges me constantly, still pulls when she's over aroused, still barks/explodes at little things, and I if I have to raise my voice to make her go lay down, she'll do it but when her elbows hit the mat she looks up and "booofs" at me - it's her way of slamming the door after getting sent to her room.
The bottom line is that there are easy Dobermans and tough ones and I'm sure now that Mals are in AKC the lines will soon be apparent, working lines and show lines. And like other working breeds like GSDs, some working lines are too much, too sharp, can't be social or calm when they need to be, which doesn't make the best nerves for working.
Rits
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I would call this dog stable. and it is the temperament I would strive for in a doberman. A balance in drives. Balance in energy levels with the ability to turn on when its appropriate. What I would want in a dog that I want to be capable of being by my side in any situation, whether in public or in the home so that it could do it's original intended job. A dog that knows good from bad through experiences and genetics. A dog that I didn't have to micro manage every second, especially once trained, because I was worried what it "might do". That I could never relax and trust it's training and genetics. Basically, a dog you can actually live with. I'm not sure what good it does to have dogs kenneled 24/7 except when working with you like some of the working folks do (not all) when it comes time to actually need them to do their job... its quite an inconvenience, imo unless you have a remote system to open kennels and were awake or home to do so... which we know most break ins do not happen during either.
But still be a responsible dog owner no matter... I think it is a bit irresponsible to completely leave your dog unattended and not tied to anything in a public space while you go to the bathroom a bit irresponsible, no matter the training. But props to her and her dog for the work she's put in.
Cferg
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As @Ravenbird said previously after what I’ve been through with my dog I can read dogs well. I know what a dog wants to do and what it doesn’t. Having said that I’m not impressed with the average dog that has good obedience. I can tell when a dog responds and complies to its handler just because it has nothing better to do than comply.
When I get compliments from someone new about Stassi’s obedience. I usually respond, thanks but you have know idea what she wants to do right now. They can’t see what’s boiling underneath, that sprung trap if you know what I mean haha
It's amazing what we learn from the challenging dogs that can't be learned any other way. Same with horses. You can't learn to stay on a bucking horse if you never get on one. Plus, pretty soon you learn to see "that look in their eye" as you saddle up.
But I think all you're saying is this well behaved and well trained dog was not a high-drive Mal to begin with?
Cferg
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He might’ve had some drive when turned on. But the training part I didn’t see. What I saw was a dog that didn’t react and didn’t get up when his owner left because he didn’t want to. He was a good dog but wasn’t because of his training.
My heeler would stay in my flatbed truck no matter what. Even if I left my truck parked in a field for hours and left with someone else she would jump out and lay underneath it for shade. People would always compliment and ask how I got her to do that. I always told them I didn’t do anything she just does it. Unless they looked like a yuppie, then I told them I beat her within an inch of her life just once. She never tried to jump out again after that, I would tell them. Haha I would tell them it was all her after that. I just wanted to see their face and reaction.
Well that's different. I couldn't get what you were saying about this incident, but if was as you say just total disinterest in everything, that's weird, especially for the breed.
I get it about the heeler. They are born to stay in the back of a pickup, even flatbeds. You don't train them to do that. They'll bite anyone who walks up to them as well. No training needed for that either.
Cferg
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@Ravenbird my heeler was super social. But if I ever came out of a store and saw someone petting her. I warned them if you ever see this kind of dog in the back of another truck don’t try to pet it. Because heelers don’t display much they just bite.
I've met some very sociable Mals. Without exception they were very well trained. Some by military K9 trainers.
