What it takes:

[Ravenbird]

 

[JanS]

So true!

 

[strykerdobe]

And that is everyday!

 

[Firestar Dobe]

Not to mention frustration and exhaustion in that mix!

 

[Cranekc35]

I see in some posts of yours last year, that you were doing some protection training sessions with Asha. Are you still continuing that? If so, how is that going? My boy will be 2 years old this month and I'm about to start that with a trainer in a few weeks. Is there any advice that you or anyone else on here could give me from your own experience in this area? I feel like Prince would really enjoy doing this as Asha, but I'm new at this and want to make sure I'm doing the right thing. The trainer is an ex-cop that used to work in the K9 department.

 

[Cferg]

I see in some posts of yours last year, that you were doing some protection training sessions with Asha. Are you still continuing that? If so, how is that going? My boy will be 2 years old this month and I'm about to start that with a trainer in a few weeks. Is there any advice that you or anyone else on here could give me from your own experience in this area? I feel like Prince would really enjoy doing this as Asha, but I'm new at this and want to make sure I'm doing the right thing. The trainer is an ex-cop that used to work in the K9 department.

My only advice is to ask if he has worked with the off breeds. Some people aren’t used to Dobermans and rotweillers etc. .

 

[Ddski5]

1000%…..

What you put in your Doberman is what you will get out.

They are untapped ready to be worked. The question is….are you willing to put in the time and energy.

Just amazing companions.

 

[jazzies mum]

Not just Dobermans either. While on my travels I ran into an older couple struggling with a young dog that looked to be part Dobie from a distance. I put Jazz into a sit/stay and went over to speak to them, about 50ft. Turns out that the pup was a Kelpie rescue dog and they had only had him a few days but were finding him an excitable challenge. Kelpies are high energy working dogs with brains that need exercising. I had a quick chat with them while Jazz waited, and they were amazed when she stayed quiet except for a couple of yips from missing out on the meeting. She settled with hand signals like a good girl. Moral of the story is that it gave them hope and incentive when I told them of the challenges I faced to have Jazz so well behaved and attentive, and that she isn't perfectly obedient all the time! Training, training, training, never ending training!

 

[Ravenbird]

Moral of the story is that it gave them hope and incentive when I told them of the challenges I faced to have Jazz so well behaved and attentive, and that she isn't perfectly obedient all the time! Training, training, training, never ending training!

I love that you took the time to speak with them and that Jazz was a beautiful example of how your hard work paid off. I just met my first Kelpie a few weeks ago - yep, active dog! but this one is kept very busy and is well trained.

 

[Ravenbird]

Is there any advice that you or anyone else on here could give me from your own experience in this area? I feel like Prince would really enjoy doing this as Asha, but I'm new at this and want to make sure I'm doing the right thing. The trainer is an ex-cop that used to work in the K9 department.

As mentioned, you might ask if the trainer has worked with other breeds. Dobermans do think a little different. Does the trainer do all around training and make sure obedience is in place? Is he/she training with sports in mind or just protection or just fun? Bite work is fun, Asha still loves it. I'm still working with it when I can. It's a great confidence builder if done right, but be sure that no one pushes your dog. The dog should always look like he's having fun and wants to be taking part and pressure should be introduced slowly. Have fun with it, I hope to see you start a new thread with your new adventure! I'm due to start a new thread about a new trainer I found, bite work included.

 

[Cranekc35]

As mentioned, you might ask if the trainer has worked with other breeds. Dobermans do think a little different. Does the trainer do all around training and make sure obedience is in place? Is he/she training with sports in mind or just protection or just fun? Bite work is fun, Asha still loves it. I'm still working with it when I can. It's a great confidence builder if done right, but be sure that no one pushes your dog. The dog should always look like he's having fun and wants to be taking part and pressure should be introduced slowly. Have fun with it, I hope to see you start a new thread with your new adventure! I'm due to start a new thread about a new trainer I found, bite work included.

Thanks for the input. Yes, he does all around training and obedience. I have already been working with him on those things and was ready to start with a little protection training with him in a few weeks. Prince loves this trainer and does spins every time he sees him. He has worked with Dobermans before, even one that came from a litter from the same breeder of Prince. I'm just looking for him to be trained more on intimidation factor - growling, barking on cue for a possible threat. Not any attack training.

 

[Ddski5]

I'm just looking for him to be trained more on intimidation factor - growling, barking on cue for a possible threat. Not any attack training.

You can do this yourself if you are able to find a certain stimulus that makes him bark or growl.

In Ragnar’s younger years he was quite reactive to other dogs/horses and he would bark/growl everytime he saw one on tv. So I would put YouTube on tv and replay dogs and horses to illicit the reaction I wanted.

For each bark that I knew was coming, I would say “speak” then show the stimulus- he would bark and then I would say “yes” and give him a treat.

The harder one was the growl because I had a hard time finding a stimulus….only thing I could find was the FedEx man. So I would have to be aware and diligent anticipating the arrival of the FedEx man. Going through the same procedure with this.

Have to be careful though. Took me forever to break Ragnar from going into a loud barking beast everytime a dog came on tv. It really got to be irritating to be watching a tv show and all of a sudden he launches off the couch barking at the tv. But who’s fault is this? Mine….because that the stim I used to teach him command bark.

If you choose to get your trainer to do this, I would be interested to know what stim he uses…. maybe being on outside of dog park barking at other dogs?? but then again, you would be giving positive vibes and treats for barking aggressively at other dogs. Chickens/hogs?? Whatever it is that can bring an immediate bark or growl.

 

[Cranekc35]

You can do this yourself if you are able to find a certain stimulus that makes him bark or growl.

In Ragnar’s younger years he was quite reactive to other dogs/horses and he would bark/growl everytime he saw one on tv. So I would put YouTube on tv and replay dogs and horses to illicit the reaction I wanted.

For each bark that I knew was coming, I would say “speak” then show the stimulus- he would bark and then I would say “yes” and give him a treat.

The harder one was the growl because I had a hard time finding a stimulus….only thing I could find was the FedEx man. So I would have to be aware and diligent anticipating the arrival of the FedEx man. Going through the same procedure with this.

Have to be careful though. Took me forever to break Ragnar from going into a loud barking beast everytime a dog came on tv. It really got to be irritating to be watching a tv show and all of a sudden he launches off the couch barking at the tv. But who’s fault is this? Mine….because that the stim I used to teach him command bark.

If you choose to get your trainer to do this, I would be interested to know what stim he uses…. maybe being on outside of dog park barking at other dogs?? but then again, you would be giving positive vibes and treats for barking aggressively at other dogs. Chickens/hogs?? Whatever it is that can bring an immediate bark or growl.

I actually taught him to bark on command, but the problem I have is that when I command it, he looks at me. LOL....He has his favorite tug toy and when I started doing some directional barking command to his toy, he became confused as to what I was asking for. He would look at me and bark, then I would command him to look at toy, but he couldn't put it together. Bad communication on my part obviously. So, we tried to use frustration for the toy one session, but he was already tired, so we decided to stop. We are going to try again next weekend with a harness and getting his drive up to want the toy again to see if we get him to bark in the direction I am pointing.

A lot of me wanting to do this came from an incident that happened a few weeks ago at my office. I take him with me on occasion. I had him in a down position in the reception area as I was talking to someone. I was sitting down below the "open" lobby window and he was at my feet. A coworker walked by us and around into the lobby area and started talking to us through the "open " lobby window. He started moving his hands up as he was conversing and Prince got up with the hair on the back of his neck growling and barking and about to go around towards him. Obviously he was thinking that he was going to hurt mama. I immediately placed him in a down again. I want to teach him to guard me on command but at the same time, teach him the difference of a real threat or not. I feel like if I don't teach this now, at some point even a hand shake might seem like a threat to him. He's never done that before.

 

[Ravenbird]

I immediately placed him in a down again. I want to teach him to guard me on command but at the same time, teach him the difference of a real threat or not

If you choose to get your trainer to do this, I would be interested to know what stim he uses…. maybe being on outside of dog park barking at other dogs?? but then again, you would be giving positive vibes and treats for barking aggressively at other dogs. Chickens/hogs?? Whatever it is that can bring an immediate bark or growl.

For teaching a dog to protect a person, they will use people (never random critters!) - called Decoys or Helpers who are trained to entice the dog into barking, then acting afraid of the dog and running away, giving the dog courage. The best helpers will take it slowly and never put pressure or fear on your dog until way later in the game. They start with a tug or bite sleeve as a teaser/toy to get them in prey drive and to bark and to bite, the dog learns to "control" the decoy because the decoy is making every move the dog makes a winning one, but as training goes on, the dog must work harder and harder to get the bite (sleeve or body suit, depending on the training). So building courage, rewarding heavily with bite & play. Personal protection requires an enormous amount of self confidence on the dogs part and is not easy. An ex-cop should know. And ALL of it requires an tremendous amount of obedience, otherwise you have a loose cannon and a liability. I don't know very much about real life personal protection vs. sports, except that it takes much more dog and training than the sport does. And any of the bite sports are about impossible without dedication.

The best book I've seen on understanding the working dog is Der Schutzhund, translated into English by Armand Winkler. The first part of the book is all about the way a dog thinks when he's in these different drives and explains why you have to build courage against a human so carefully.

 

[Cranekc35]

For teaching a dog to protect a person, they will use people (never random critters!) - called Decoys or Helpers who are trained to entice the dog into barking, then acting afraid of the dog and running away, giving the dog courage. The best helpers will take it slowly and never put pressure or fear on your dog until way later in the game. They start with a tug or bite sleeve as a teaser/toy to get them in prey drive and to bark and to bite, the dog learns to "control" the decoy because the decoy is making every move the dog makes a winning one, but as training goes on, the dog must work harder and harder to get the bite (sleeve or body suit, depending on the training). So building courage, rewarding heavily with bite & play. Personal protection requires an enormous amount of self confidence on the dogs part and is not easy. An ex-cop should know. And ALL of it requires an tremendous amount of obedience, otherwise you have a loose cannon and a liability. I don't know very much about real life personal protection vs. sports, except that it takes much more dog and training than the sport does. And any of the bite sports are about impossible without dedication.

The best book I've seen on understanding the working dog is Der Schutzhund, translated into English by Armand Winkler. The first part of the book is all about the way a dog thinks when he's in these different drives and explains why you have to build courage against a human so carefully.

Great info! Thanks so much for this. I really appreciate it. A lot to think about.

 

[Ravenbird]

Great info!

I'm no expert at all, but I am fascinated by animal behavior and study it from all angles. My description above is just basic - all trainers will have their own way of working protection in dogs, but from what little I've done and what much I've studied, that would be the basic idea. Dobermans in general do not have a good record in protection sports compared with other breeds, unless specifically bred for it, and even then it's hard to compete or compare to strong GSDs. And they do take a little bit of different handling because they think and act different. A trainer that expects them to act like a GSD or Mal will not be able to bring out the best in them.

That said, I hope you try, I hope you and Prince have some really fun sessions and learn some stuff. If you are both having fun then nothing else matters.

 

[Kswoodssue]

As mentioned, you might ask if the trainer has worked with other breeds. Dobermans do think a little different. Does the trainer do all around training and make sure obedience is in place? Is he/she training with sports in mind or just protection or just fun? Bite work is fun, Asha still loves it. I'm still working with it when I can. It's a great confidence builder if done right, but be sure that no one pushes your dog. The dog should always look like he's having fun and wants to be taking part and pressure should be introduced slowly. Have fun with it, I hope to see you start a new thread with your new adventure! I'm due to start a new thread about a new trainer I found, bite work

You can do this yourself if you are able to find a certain stimulus that makes him bark or growl.

In Ragnar’s younger years he was quite reactive to other dogs/horses and he would bark/growl everytime he saw one on tv. So I would put YouTube on tv and replay dogs and horses to illicit the reaction I wanted.

For each bark that I knew was coming, I would say “speak” then show the stimulus- he would bark and then I would say “yes” and give him a treat.

The harder one was the growl because I had a hard time finding a stimulus….only thing I could find was the FedEx man. So I would have to be aware and diligent anticipating the arrival of the FedEx man. Going through the same procedure with this.

Have to be careful though. Took me forever to break Ragnar from going into a loud barking beast everytime a dog came on tv. It really got to be irritating to be watching a tv show and all of a sudden he launches off the couch barking at the tv. But who’s fault is this? Mine….because that the stim I used to teach him command bark.

If you choose to get your trainer to do this, I would be interested to know what stim he uses…. maybe being on outside of dog park barking at other dogs?? but then again, you would be giving positive vibes and treats for barking aggressively at other dogs. Chickens/hogs?? Whatever it is that can bring an immediate bark or growl.

Poor fed ex guy