What I think about Mr Cesar Milan

[DobieLvr]

Used to breed Hybrid Wolves, It aint pretty. Thats what used to piss me off about people telling me i was a fool to have more then one doberman in the house. "I should at least wait till my first was older so i could be prepared to handle two" are you kidding me. I may be relitivly new to dobermans. But Im no stranger to raising agressive breeds. god i hate people who assume they know everything there is to know about somebody theve nver met. (not directed at RH who is entitled to his opinion)

Von the Hybrids are the ONLY breed that has ever scared me. They got into a "alpha fight" and I was afraid it was going to end in Jake being killed. Wolves have and often will kill to attain Alpha. I went into the kennel with a broken piece of hose to break it up. I want you to know - I took a deep breath - and honestly figured my husband would find my dead body when he got up - but it was one of those "moments" that I had to go in. The Hybrids knew that I was female - and I wasn't Alpha to them. There were three males - all litter mates. They were taken as puppies and we took them in as rescues - and since they weren't pure wolves - or pure dogs they couldn't go into a shelter. There was the added problem that because they were 98% - supposedly the rabies vaccine wouldn't work on wolf hybrids... I don't know if that is true or not....

Wolves are nothing like dogs...nothing. The most dangerous dog out there is a wolf that isn't afraid any longer, and that is the Hybrid. Karhu broke the welds on a 12 guage fence with his head and pulled a hole opening with his teeth... just to escape the kennel and run in front of the snowmobile.

Now - I want you all to know - I owned a Cougar and was never as afraid of JC as I was of the Hybrids the day I walked in to break up their fighting...

 

[DobieLvr]

Oh Royalty... You would hate my training methods.

I am not all about beating my dogs, but you need to have a balance with positive and negative. I do not believe for one minute that you can successfully train a dog purely on positive reinformcement. In fact, my mother in law has a border collie (the most trainable dog in the world, right?) who has been trained purely positively, and he is agressive towards other dogs, at random, his recall is about 50/50, he breaks sits and downs after 2 mins tops, gets completely distracted by cats or any other small animals and he still jumps on people at 2 years old. I, on the other hand have a siberian husky (the breed is known to be stubborn as a mule, hunters, wanderers and runners and most FAQ's will tell you these dogs will never be off leashable) who I have successfully trained to have about a 99% perfect recall, can be trusted off leash, never jumps on people, will hold a sit or down for 20 minutes plus, does not chase cats, bunnines despite having MAJOR prey drive. He is an extremely successfull obedience dog, despite his breed. He has never competed because he has bad elbows and is a little slow, but he is my best friend... even if I do use negative punishment on him when required
Personally, seeing my misfit sibe put a border collie to shame purely due to training methods is enough for me to believe in what I am doing.

That is really impressive! I love working the breeds that no one can do a thing with - you should have seen the Shih Tzu that we owned.. LOL

 

[FredC]

jst, i can totally relate. But yeah i guess i got off track a little. Mine were 75%/25% and were vacinated like any other dog. and i totally agree these dogs do not like being kenneled one little bit and will do anything to escape and run. they always came home but usually not for days. and most times it cost me alot of money in replacing livestock. i did bring mine in overnight. in the winter and never had a problem. but outside was always a different story. my last hybrid just died a cpl years ago and she was the best dog ever. never harmed a fly. but she was the exception.

 

[DobieLvr]

I wasn't able to bring the boys in... I just could never house break them. They were "okay" about the kennel - but it was pretty much only because I wanted them to stay there, not because it held them. Mine never left home... we were building the log cabin and by the time I got back to the cabin, Karhu would be right behind me. Use to just send chills up my back - never ever heard him coming.
Smart - OMG.. .there is not a dog around that has a nose as good or is as smart as a wolf hybrid. I use to take Karhu on long walks. I would get lost in the woods - everytime I went out. I would tell Karhu let's go home and he would take me home. It was NEVER in the direction I figured it should be either. You have to understand - I argue with a compass... lol They certainly have my respect - but I am in complete agreement with the State for making it illegal to own them now. I "know" dogs - and they were on the edge of what I could control.

 

[FredC]

yup the state wide ban about 15 yrs ago was probably a good thing in hindsight, but its what got me active in BSL awareness. thank god for the grand father clause. because i wouldve probably been jailed or heavily fined for non compliance. theres no way i would have gotten rid of my "Dogs" they were everything to me.

 

[DobieLvr]

Was it really? There were so many people breeding them that had absolutely no clue as to what they were doing... there were a lot of attacks - and then they were breeding down to where they were more wolf than dog...those were the ones that were hardest to control. The ones I had were "MacKensie River Wolves"... not known for being the best to handle... the females came into season once a year, in the spring only - didn't have a normal "dog" cycle... and whoa, the females were beyond vicious. I didn't have them - another couple took the girls... they were eventually put down. It took me a couple of years to find homes for them all (Karhu, Jake and Huggy). I trained them to a sled (they were awesome sled dogs) and the couple that took Karhu hooked him to the wall of their house - he pulled the wall down! It was kind of a porch/wall part of the house. He used Karhu for running a trap line... was perfect for what he wanted.

 

[DoberDon]

I was a grocery bag boy in high school and every week these excentric people came in that drove a big old international 9 passenger work truck and always brought their 3 wolf hybrids.All us bagboys would immediatly fight to take our break so we wouldn't have to put the groceries into their vehicle! I remember the people would just stand back and watch as these wolf/dogs were freaking out drooling,snarling,growling,lunging at me as I put(threw)their grocery bags into the vehicle,certain this was the time that I would be mauled to death!! I always wondered why in the world would they bring them and make us do that,I thought they were sick and just enjoyed watching them scare the sh*t out of us.Looking back now I wonder if they were afraid to leave them alone to tear up their house.

 

[burlysoldier]

No offense taken to me either Von. I haven't read Cesar's book yet but Burly told me it was very good and showed a great insight to how he was raised and how he grew up watching feral dogs. Maybe there is, as you are saying, a difference in dogs and wolves. I don't know that, I'm taking it from what you and jst said and also since you said that, from a show of Cesar's he worked with a hybrid Wolf. That wolf was VERY aggressive and absolutely HUGE! I had to call my husband in to see it! LOL It was amazing. But anyway, even though Cesar made a lot of headway with the wolf I remember thinking at the time that he may have met his match. I think he even said that it was his first time working with a wolf hybrid. That thing was scary and I wasn't so sure it was rehabilitated enough to leave with those people. He was much better, but boy, that was a lot of animal. But I still believe in him when it comes to dogs and I think he does wonderful things for dogs AND people. I know it's TV but dogs don't lie and you can see the transformation in their actions and their faces. And now I'll shut up....for now.

I saw that episode! There were two wolves actually a white Arctic Wolf and a Mexican grey wolf. The Arctic was enormous. I really liked this episode I thought Cesar was done for but he handled it like a champ.

 

[MyBuddy]

I saw that episode! There were two wolves actually a white Arctic Wolf and a Mexican grey wolf. The Arctic was enormous. I really liked this episode I thought Cesar was done for but he handled it like a champ.

Wasn't he HUGE?! Man, he about drowned out that little Mexican! LOL!

 

[MyBuddy]

ok well since most people cant read I copy and pasted the entire article to see everyone's comment and views on this I knew it would be a hot topic that's why i posted it, I am dog trainer that trains in mainly Personal Protection so think how only positive reinforcement would work with that it doesn't I was taught as an old school method so my techniques are far from nice at times

So were you just baiting us to get us all to post, lol,or do you really hate Cesar? Just wondering, cause now I'm confused which side of the 'Cesar' fence you are on....

 

[FredC]

I was kind of curious how you train PP without getting down on a dog now and then. but the last post clears that up

 

[Royalty House]

seeing as I keep getting messages bout people wondering if I do or don't like Cesar I did post on the subject read through it and you will find my reply, I watch the guys show all the time hes a good behaviorist nothing special there a lot of other people out there doing the same thing just they don't have a show his method has been around for a longgggggg time since Koehler times if you wanna really learn to train dogs and learn dog behaviorist training read a book from William Koehler its old but still used by everyone its like the dog trainers bible

and in case that wasn't clean enough do I like him as a behaviorist yes thou there is nothing special about him there a lot of people doing the same thing out there just as good and even better

 

[MyBuddy]

Cesar Millan sucks! He is no way a professional. He has had no training at all. Here is an article that I copied and pasted that says how I feel about him and why a lot better than I could. I'm posting this because I'm Sick and tired of people telling me "oh well cesar milan" say this and does this people need to see the truth being his Cruel Stone Age "Techniques". He is referred to as a behaviorist not a dog TRAINER get it straight people.

Cesar's Way? NO WAY!


I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE WHAT EVERYONE HAS TO SAY ABOUT THIS LOL THERE FAVORITE MISTER CESAR MILAN GETTING BASHED :Insanity:

The way this thread started, I really thought you didn't 'approve' of Cesar's approach. Not that you or anyone else has to go along with him, I just wondered how you felt about his training methods.

 

[FredC]

haha Ceaser has been taking his lumps for years. im sure if it bothered him he would have changed his methods by now. I actually perfer his methods to say Victoria Stillwell's But i incorporate both methods in my own training program..

 

[kpablo]

Cesar Millan... I find it quiet odd when I go to petco and pick up a toy. Scoob barks at the toy due to high prey drive. The odd part is, when random strangers come to him and "shhht" him pointing their fingers in his face. Wierd. Maybe the the followers of Cesar Millan has me all weird feeling. I believe in positive training with small not forceful corrections and what I have seen with Milan and his followers is a technique I do not want to use. Pointing fingers and basically scaring a dog to do something for you is wrong. The dog should want to do to please you, not because he has to. =) JMHO

 

[MyBuddy]

That 'shhhsh' thing is not to scare the dog, only to get his attention, make him look at you, much the way the command, 'Watch me', does. It breaks the concentration of his obsession at the time. And a dog will want to please you, when you demand respect and make yourself his leader. JMO

 

[kpablo]

Yea I know the Shhht isn't to scare, but the majority of the training techniques is to intimidate the dog, perhaps not the shhhht.

 

[Royalty House]

yea OMG i hate her show Victoria Stillwell uff especially that turn you back on a jumping dog method shes one of those pro only positive "bribery" training methods

haha Ceaser has been taking his lumps for years. im sure if it bothered him he would have changed his methods by now. I actually perfer his methods to say Victoria Stillwell's But i incorporate both methods in my own training program..

 

[FredC]

"What Make the Green Grass Grow" ?

Dont know, but i know it isnt dog pee

 

[Royalty House]

lol someone else tryed to answer it also I forgot who but the answer to what makes the green grass grow "BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD MAKES THE GREEN GRASS GROW" old army saying pretty sure the marines use it also